José Pereira Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I understand the idea behind 5th colour (I think) Let's try this: A normal 8 pixels high character: 00 11 10 01 00 11 01 10 00 01 11 01 00 10 01 11 11 01 10 11 10 11 11 11 01 10 11 00 11 11 11 11 So, I think on the first four lines, the (711) comes from 710, the 5th and 8th line from 711 and 6th line from 711. But here comes the question: the 7th b. on line7 is 0, but on bit pair it's an ocupied cell. In this line 11 get 710 or 711? Using 711 in g2f: I first take a picture and then? Do it all as 4colour mode? And finally try to enter 5th colour? Please go to Lemon64.com and on Last Ninja screens, for example, in the lions one, how to use here the 5th colour (of course you put various DLIs and various 5th colours). Another example: On youtube.com the "Pacmania NES video": here you see playing area with Lego pieces (3 colours), 1 for the group and black for background (5 colours). In this example is it possible in someway get the 5th colour. Once again, thanks. José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The choice of PF2 or PF3 comes from the character 'name', not from any data in the character set itself. Let's say this is character #15. If #15 (00001111) was put in the character map, then PF2 will be used for all '11' pixels. If #143 (10001111) was put into the character map, then you'll get the same character with PF3 used for all '11' pixels. Is that what you're asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Right, the flag is bit 7 of the character INDEX, not character data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 This explains it well - Atari Archives - Computer's Second Book of Atari Graphics sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 (edited) Jose...you remind me trying to understand Objective C 2.0 or OOP... sometimes simple things are complicated... simply try this in basic... 10 for i=0 to 7 20 poke 36864+i,255 30 next i 40 gr.12 50 scr=peek(88)+peek(89)*256 60 poke scr,0 70 poke scr+1,128 80 poke 756,144 and then play around with the color registers... Edited June 15, 2009 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 This explains it well - Atari Archives - Computer's Second Book of Atari Graphics sTeVE Holy Crap, Orson Scott Card wrote that. Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 He was a BIG atari fan - I remember reading that in an interview with him a few years ago... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Thanks guys. Now I understand (it was time!...). I promise I will not bother you today. (Ok. probably not!...) José Pereira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Are you kidding? Bother us? We *live* for this kind of stuff. Bring it on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Forget the promise. Sometimes I think I do so many questions... But, my life as an ATARI 8BIT user began around 86. On that time, here in Portugal the Spectrums were the kings (and were 1 or 2 years old here - they were the first computer I remember here). We also have a factory that produce TIMEX 2048/2068 (That you plug a microdive and turns to ZX compability - I think it was also popular on Eastern Europe - I read something about model 1000). But on that time we didn´t have software laws, so, all the stores sell copy games. The market was all around games. But, around 86, I think, some stores began to sell ATARI 800XL. The games were also copies, but it had some graphic/utilities and the the disc-drive (a great new, we only know diskettes from PC, and this was only in the offices). The Atari machine price was more than 30.000$00 with XC11 cassette recorder and (something like todays 150€) and the ZX48K only 2/3 of that with a simple cassette-recorder. The games were also more cheap on ZX (half the price - 1€ - 200$00). The ATARI games begin with 300$00/400$00 but the price was as high as the size of cassete time it needs. For multiload games, you could pay 600/700/800$00. I remember to see Syncalc and other utility program at 3/4/5000$00 and more, but photocopied instructions. And talking about covers, the Spectrum games had photocopy papers in colour from the originals. Our Atari only a piece of paper with the instruction: "Press OPTION+START..." and the name of the store. As you can see, it was very difficult to ATARI. I saw all my friends with computers and it took more than a year to convince my fathers of buying me a computer. In the store I went from a chinese guys, I remember they also have an MSX and SHARP MZ700. I didn´t know anything about computers, only ZX games and Load"" ENTER. I also don´t remember why I choose ATARI 800XL, but it was because of the professional keyboard. I didn´t even know about systems compability. It was very sad when I began to understand that I was completely alone. I cannot change or save games to my friends. But, a now defunct newspaper called DIARIO POPULAR began to had an enormous section of computers on Fridays (with many pages). There I found programs, revues and adresses of users. Also on stores we began to have Crashs, Your Sinclairs, from spain Micro-Hoby for ZX. But multi-format magazines also appear at that time: C&VG and MicroMania from spain. With this magazines I started to see game advertisers from U.S.GOLD and ATARI 8bit releases and general informations. Sometimes programs to introduce (I remember a German magazine with "Grisu" and "Dragon's Lair" listing games and to other machines). Then, I started to write and phone to other ATARI users. I started to know all the news from England (one of us had the father in a Hotel on England in the Jersey island). This friend was the only one who had all the games as originals). I start to have the idea of doing an INTER-RAIL. I never join money, but when I start my first job in July 1990 I finally have the possibility. And exactly 2 years later, on July 1992 I went to many countries in Europe. But the most important reason was ATARI. At this time I subscribe PAGE 6 and had seen ATARIUSERs from a friend, We had sometimes ANTIC,ATARIANS on stores. I know all the adresses, companies, rumours, releases, names of programmers. But I never learned how to program. I had many books, assemblers... but no one to help me or change ideas. All my friends only wants to play games, and in 90s all changed to ST and AMIGAS. My first city was Paris. But I change from a station to another and take the train to Calais. What I wanted: ENGLAND. I spent more than a week there. Is stores: SUNARO, SILICA, MILES BETTER SOFTWARE and others, on PAGE6 in Stafford and I will never forgot 11 Fennel Street in Manchester. This was the adress from RED RAT SOFTWARE. It has a street name but I remember it was in a big place. At that time i thought software companies were big places. But no, RED RAT was only a very, very small place, you enter, then you had some stairs and a minimum place with 3/4/5 computers. Not more than 6/7 people could be inside it, as I remember. I spent something like 200.000$00 (1.000€) in games and magazines. And until 1994 I buy almost all games developed for ATARI 8bit. Nowadays I´m said, because I didn´t know in 1992 nothing about Eastern Europe. I didn´t went to Poland or Czech. Then i got married, change town, and leave alone my ATARI 800XL here in Lisbon. Only on the 21st century with internet that I ressurect my "great,great love of my life". Now I know many things about ATARI and other computers. THE INTERNET IT'S REALLY AMAZING; STUPENDOUS. But I never forgot the past: the rumours, unrelease games (something that Atarians know very well), I know almost all the names of companies, programers (coding, lyrics, grapics). Some of this days I will sent you a list of all the games inted to ATARI 8BIT that never see the daylight (probably some are new to you...). The only, but the greatest sad thing it is: I´m not a programmer. I have now the knowledge that could give me some oportunities in the past, even If I was alone. But it´s to late, I think!... I´m trying to do something on ATARI 8bit (some game screens - like LAST NINJA and/or others) and probably, someone will do the code. I want to be a part of ATARI HISTORY. And I think all of you want the same. Thanks to all. José Agostinho Lopes Pereira Godinho. (Long, long name, isn´t it? It´s like this letter... Bye) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 José, The main reason I mess with Atari programming today is because I always wanted to write games back in the 80's but never learned enough to be any good at it. It's fun to contribute even if it's 25 years too late. -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) It's never too late to learn José! All you need is enough free time That's great that you got to see Atari World in Fennel Street and RedRat in house there. I was there every week in the eighties. Ocean software was a 10 minute walk from there, did you get to see them too? Infrograms was also here but a bit later in the nineties. That's a cool Atari World tour you got to do! Edited June 16, 2009 by Tezz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 oldschool coding rules... I love it and will do ever... one of the best things in my freetime... (ok... girlfriend does not understand it but well... everybody knows the thing "turn the damned noise down... and are you changing colors again?") I described here once that first thing what I am doing on consoles and other computers is most of the time first change colors on screen... seems I don't get away of this... damned vic 20 instore "demo"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 All you need is enough free time In 30 years, when many Atari coders will be retired and have a lot of free time, we'll see many new games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danwinslow Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 yep. 6502 assembler is just a great, great platform. Keeps your skills up...it's like a combination of programming, zen meditation, and puzzle games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 still magic what you can do with LDA/STA/CMP/BEQ/BNE/ADC/INX/DEX only... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRV Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 still magic what you can do with LDA/STA/CMP/BEQ/BNE/ADC/INX/DEX only... what are you saying? that you don't know the rest? NRV (we could make some kind of contest: program a game with just this instructions..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 No, I didn't visit OCEAN. I always hate OCEAN. Why go there? They never care about A8! If went there it would probably to "put a bomb"!... Just kidding. Probably, if I went there to give my A8 ideas and needs, probably they would not care about. If on that time we had Internet, probably, if we send to this software houses large amounts of mails could result in more games or not abandoned ones. In Manchester, I went only to a games store. I remember it was down from Atariworld. I remember to see a Cadbury factory, and it was down from there. Here, It was the first time I saw the Hi-Tec games. I bought them all!... (And what a disapointment - by the way: PAL developments produce almost all the latest A8(budget) games - for Mastertronic and Hi-Tec, programmed Anthony Wilson and others - all were rubbish, I think. I always wonder if they know anything about A8, probably only 6502 coding and then direct port to A8. No DLI, sprite use... Bye, José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 still magic what you can do with LDA/STA/CMP/BEQ/BNE/ADC/INX/DEX only... what are you saying? that you don't know the rest? NRV (we could make some kind of contest: program a game with just this instructions..) INX/DEX not as much use without LDX or TAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 No, I didn't visit OCEAN.I always hate OCEAN. Why go there? They never care about A8! If went there it would probably to "put a bomb"!... Just kidding. Probably, if I went there to give my A8 ideas and needs, probably they would not care about. If on that time we had Internet, probably, if we send to this software houses large amounts of mails could result in more games or not abandoned ones. well actually there were a few Atari fans working at Ocean, it was really just that the Atari only had a very small share of the market here in the UK so there was not enough business to invest time and resources for A8 releases. An old friend worked at Ocean towards the end of the eighties and found a complete A8 set-up including an 800XL and 1050 with USD stored away there for the team to use. I gained most of my early Atari knowledge from him. It's a shame that the market was so small here but that's business I guess. Actually with regard to putting a bomb under it, it was in fact the fate of the building and area where Atari World once stood that experienced that for real, as the whole area was decimated in 1996 by a terrorist bomb. In Manchester, I went only to a games store. I remember it was down from Atariworld. I remember to see a Cadbury factory, and it was down from there.Here, It was the first time I saw the Hi-Tec games. I bought them all!... (And what a disapointment - by the way: PAL developments produce almost all the latest A8(budget) games - for Mastertronic and Hi-Tec, programmed Anthony Wilson and others - all were rubbish, I think. I always wonder if they know anything about A8, probably only 6502 coding and then direct port to A8. No DLI, sprite use... Bye, José Pereira. Yes, those budget releases and poor ports made Atari a laughing stock in comparison to the C64 by the mid to late eighties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Anthony Wilson and Russell Knight - they gave the A8 a BAD name - everything they touched turned to crap! Rampage is a classic example, not to mention Speed Hawk and Sidewinder 2 (and the rest) - all absolutely awful! sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 and Steven MacIlwee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 I cannot believe!... When I wrote the other mail I don´t know anything about the bomb. It was my feelings and a joke. Someone explains this (some psicologist)? (Human mind things...) José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 oh yes Domain of the Undead & California Run leap to mind as amazingly poor games too - why did the A8 atract such loser coders??? sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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