THE WAY OF THE EXPLODING FIST

[emkay]

Yeah, apart from the weird speed and the going out of tune bits it's ok. The crickets are great

 

 

Pete

 

Yes. There is another setup of possible channel mixing, but not supported by RMT. It's just the simple combination of 15kHz plus a 16 bit channel for the main voice..... at 16 bit resolution. It would fit best for this tune... but...

 

Pokey is a weird thing. If you try to play a single instrument, you get a hard work to be done....

Play all 4 channels ... put some correction here and there... and everything gets mixed by itself..

[PeteD]

Cool. I have pretty much no idea how pokey works. SID, I know almost 100% (I wrote a SID emulator for GBA so had to dig deep into the hardware specs) but I'll really need someone to do music for me because even if I did know it 100% I still can't write music on a tracker or other editor. I've tried 100 times and I can't make it sound how I want so I surrender to it and give up.

 

 

Pete

[Rybags]

That music would benefit from triangle + saw waveforms.

 

Really, we should have better software support... triangle waves are supposedly just a case of Freq = ABS ( AUDF1 - AUDF3 )

[emkay]

Referring to the Bhudda picture, I have scaled down the picture below.

In this case you might see better, where to go with an Atari version of this game.

 

A black area grants to have the correct outline for the protagonists. The stone socket could mostly be done by dli changes. The bricks could be done by reused PMs, as the grass aswell. The buddha uses the same green as the grass and with PMs the necessary outlines could be built...

[emkay]

That music would benefit from triangle + saw waveforms.

 

Really, we should have better software support... triangle waves are supposedly just a case of Freq = ABS ( AUDF1 - AUDF3 )

 

Ofcourse you're right. But where to go, if the road ends up on an unbreakable wall?

 

Another chance of having more variation in sounds, was to have a granted timing between all channels. When using 16 bit, it is not possible to use the hardsynth corrections. Possibly some interrupt handled start of every generator would help.

 

Till then, here an updated tune with common 64k sounds. The main voice is now higher and some volume corrections on the attending voice were done.

 

Well, it was often said, POKEY has not enough frequency ranges. Well, the bottom is reached (with the programmable sounds), but we can go additional octaves higher, if needed.

 

Really, the crickets make the tune's refrain sound like coming right from the nature

explode1.zip

[Rybags]

I have something that can help so far as the theory behind Pokey triangle & saw waveforms.

 

Might start a thread on it later, got to do a bit of programming to go with it.

[emkay]

Cool. I have pretty much no idea how pokey works. SID, I know almost 100% (I wrote a SID emulator for GBA so had to dig deep into the hardware specs) but I'll really need someone to do music for me because even if I did know it 100% I still can't write music on a tracker or other editor. I've tried 100 times and I can't make it sound how I want so I surrender to it and give up.

 

 

Pete

 

 

Well, at least we'd need a proper Tracker with all Pokey features. If you want to do something helpful, we'd need it for a PC tool

 

Listen to this one: It's done with an unpatched RMT, so the access to the hardware sawtooth is given, but the 1.79MHz sounds get off again. The'd only need a separated notation table. Thee calculation mistakes are not only corrected by adjusting the pitch generally, it's also a wrong spread of the values that has to be adjusted.

 

And there are many features missing, like all Tracker Commands and Pokey specific inter-channel FX...

expl2.zip

[PeteD]

Well, I can't promise anything but I will keep in my mind the possibility of making a PC tracker. I'm sure there are enough people on here (you and Rybags for instance) with a lot of knowledge of the inner workings of the pokey to give me all the information I'd need.

 

Once I've sorted out some important real world stuff today I've got to get my PC dev stuff going so I can write the tools I need for WotEF. I doubt I'll have time to do it to coincide with Fist but maybe I can get something started.

 

If I don't have time (or the motivation) surely there's someone else around who is probably a much better PC coder than I am?

 

 

Pete

[irwin]

Referring to the Bhudda picture, I have scaled down the picture below.

In this case you might see better, where to go with an Atari version of this game.

 

A black area grants to have the correct outline for the protagonists. The stone socket could mostly be done by dli changes. The bricks could be done by reused PMs, as the grass aswell. The buddha uses the same green as the grass and with PMs the necessary outlines could be built...

 

 

Not possible. Try in g2f and you see why.

 

First - colors: on Atari you don't have many colors from your version, for example: like sky or from Bhudda. Look here with proper Atari colors:

 

 

Second - in every line in your version you use 12 to 17 colors - even Powrooz with super colorful Elfi.g2f picture use 4 to 11 colors per line and heavily use all pmg.

 

So here is more accurate version with 5 to 9 colors:

 

 

But for real test you must use G2F. Yours fake pictures is nice but far, far from reality

Edited July 30, 2009 by irwin

[PeteD]

lol Don't worry that original picture was from an ST version Ste and another guy were working on a loooooooooooong time ago He posted it here as a joke.

 

 

Pete

[José Pereira]

This two pictures are GREAT.

Irwin, it's possible to put here the two screens g2f files.

I just want to see how you do this, and try to learn some more tricks with G2F.

 

José Pereira.

[emkay]

This two pictures are GREAT.

Irwin, it's possible to put here the two screens g2f files.

I just want to see how you do this, and try to learn some more tricks with G2F.

 

José Pereira.

 

The pics are still mockups

[irwin]

This two pictures are GREAT.

Irwin, it's possible to put here the two screens g2f files.

I just want to see how you do this, and try to learn some more tricks with G2F.

 

José Pereira.

 

First - i think this pictures is ugly

Second - i don't use G2F to create this pictures, i only made - like Emkay - fake versions but with Atari colors palette and with an eye to Atari gfx limits. This is only a response, to show more correct version. Nothing more.

If you want to learn some more tricks in G2F ask someone who knows this program better like author Tebe and more important someone who knows better english - because my is terrible or look to g2fexamples catalog and try understand how ex. Powrooz use pmgs, or 5th color. I learned a lot that way.

 

edit. Emkay is first and answer your question - yes this pictures is fakes or mockups.

Edited July 30, 2009 by irwin

[José Pereira]

You probably may not like. I only ask you, because I simply like them. 5th colours and all other things I know, seeing all pictures there, also. But any picture is a new picture.

 

José Pereira.

[dwhyte]

Not possible. Try in g2f and you see why.

 

First - colors: on Atari you don't have many colors from your version, for example: like sky or from Bhudda. Look here with proper Atari colors:

 

 

Second - in every line in your version you use 12 to 17 colors - even Powrooz with super colorful Elfi.g2f picture use 4 to 11 colors per line and heavily use all pmg.

 

So here is more accurate version with 5 to 9 colors:

 

 

But for real test you must use G2F. Yours fake pictures is nice but far, far from reality

 

Third - with VBXE

 

[irwin]

Third - with VBXE

 

 

Fourth

 

For me Atari 8bit is GTIA - when i want 24bit palette (er 22bit) i have a PC/Mac. I like Atari from 1979 with all disadvantages. VBXE, VBGeforceXE don't interest me at all.

Edited July 30, 2009 by irwin

[PeteD]

Now make them move I am impressed though with just what is possible on A8. Seeing some of the pics on G2F "ported" from the C64 was quite impressive. But like some of the software modes on C64 they're pretty much useless other than for looking at.

 

 

Pete

[emkay]

First - i think this pictures is ugly

Second - i don't use G2F to create this pictures, i only made - like Emkay - fake versions but with Atari colors palette and with an eye to Atari gfx limits.

 

 

You think you have used the right term there?

Actually, if G2F sometimes will have all possible features of the real machine, I will make some of the "mockups" real.

For the game of this thread, we need different styles of gfx... less detail but more colours and moving objects.

What you, I , Powrooz, and others can get right out of G2F is ~ a quarter ~ of what is possible.

Edited July 30, 2009 by emkay

[irwin]

First - i think this pictures is ugly

Second - i don't use G2F to create this pictures, i only made - like Emkay - fake versions but with Atari colors palette and with an eye to Atari gfx limits.

 

 

You think you have used the right term there?

Actually, if G2F sometimes will have all possible features of the real machine, I will make some of the "mockups" real.

For the game of this thread, we need different styles of gfx... less detail but more colours and moving objects.

What you, I , Powrooz, and others can get right out of G2F is ~ a quarter ~ of what is possible.

 

 

Yes, i agree with you but since that time we can use only what is possible in g2f now. I know 23 colors is possible but without usefull tools is very painful to create anything more then listing in basic . And remember about color palette. You always remember C64 ugly colors but Atari also has some problems with palette. This is Atari gfx limits

Edited July 30, 2009 by irwin

[emkay]

What about a look at NINJA? The game is somehow the best one , when it comes to asian art of fighting.

Many moving objects are around and there is no limit at the overlay.

Not sure how it is done, but for sure, some graphics could been added where only some DLIs has been done.

 

 

The game is even outstanding by the usage of Shurikans and Daggers. When the dagger hits with the wrong end, it causes no damage... and so on.

[PeteD]

Ninja is a fairly nice game but I don't know what you mean by look at it? There's already a decent A8 version. 4 colour, software sprites for the guys, I'm presuming PMGs for the weapons and flashing idols. Wouldn't really call that "many" objects. As far as competition to Fist, it's nothing like it imho. The fighting in Fist is waaaaay above anything in Ninja but that's all Fist is, a fighting game and I think the best one on C64. Daggers not causing damage, as far as code goes that's like cmp beq

 

 

Pete

[emkay]

Ninja is a fairly nice game but I don't know what you mean by look at it? There's already a decent A8 version. 4 colour, software sprites for the guys, I'm presuming PMGs for the weapons and flashing idols. Wouldn't really call that "many" objects. As far as competition to Fist, it's nothing like it imho. The fighting in Fist is waaaaay above anything in Ninja but that's all Fist is, a fighting game and I think the best one on C64. Daggers not causing damage, as far as code goes that's like cmp beq

 

 

Why does this sound like "Atari is not worthy" to me?

 

Ninja shows softwaresprites, more than one Fighter moving on the screen, ...

 

The details in Movement are there. The objects move over background content.

The whole game can be enhanced graphically.

It clearly shows that "Exploding Fist" is only a "just not done" away, since it's technically possible, because most of such game is just "cmp beq" after the graphics movement is working.

 

That's why I thought, it is worthy a look at it, when talking about a "Way of the Exploding Fist"

[PeteD]

err, Yeah, you obviously know best. Please tell me how to convert Fist and also please tell me how you'd enhance Ninja when you don't know how it works in the first place. You're starting to sound like José

 

 

Pete

[STE'86]

whooooaaaaaa.

 

thats one hell of a jump in logic. because a couple of 3 colour sprites can move over the same 3 colour background then exploding fist with its much larger sprites which move freely over a 16 colour background is just a "not done away".

 

jesus mate if it was that easy then why do more than 50% of the games i have seen on here for the a8 look like VCS port jobs?

 

i can understand the inexperienced thinking that IK is done so Fist should be easy (i did myself to start with). because they dont notice that ik sprites move over only blank areas but Ninja????? thats just laughable.

 

and having spent the last 3 weeks decolouring and redrawing c64 fist screens and porting and recolouring bbc ones to try and obtain the best compromise on the A8 i feel i can speak with some authority on this matter.

 

Steve

[Tezz]

When I looked at it personally just out of my own interest when this thread appeared, to maintain the free movement of the sprites over the detailed colourful backgrounds as in the c64 version, the required compromises were too much to make it worthwhile doing. If however as I suggested the sprites are two rows lower so that they only pass over the last few rows of the background graphics, the background graphics can be recreated to look almost as colourful or in some places better than the c64. Is it possible to see the screens you have been working on Steve?

Edited August 13, 2009 by Tezz