Please help with the ColecoVision Opgrade Module

[opcode]

Morning...

Ok, so yesterday I discussed memory mapping with the module. Today I will talk about I/O mapping.

The CV has 256 I/O addresses. The upper 128 addresses are already in use by the plain vanilla CV, while the lower 128 addresses (0~127) were left unused. So the module uses part of those, more specifically 64~127.

40h (64) - BIOS XP mapper. Write only, selects the BIOS XP banks. Valid values are 0~15 (bits 7~4 should be zero). You shouldn't write to this register directly. Use the BIOS instead (in this case part of the BIOS is in the reserved RAM work area. More about that later).

41h (65) - Slot selector. Write only. Format is: bit0~1=slot for page 0, bit2~3=slot for page 1, bit4~5=slot for page 2, bit6~7=slot for page 3. Slot is 0~3, though you should never select slots 2 or 3. Use the BIOS instead to access the SaveRAM in slot 2. Slot 3 is currently unused.

42h (66) - Spinner disable. Write only. Write 1 to bit0 to disable spinner interruptions. Spinners are used by Super Action Controllers, Roller controller and driving controller.

48h-4Bh (72-75) - MegaRAM mapper. Write only, select the MegaRAM bank for each page. Page 0 is 48h, page 1 is 49h, and so on. Valid values are 0~15 (bits 7~4 should be zero).

50h-52h (80-82) - PSG. Read/write. Please refer to the GI AY-3-8910 documentation.

60h-63h (96-99) - Oki MSM9842. Read/write. 60h-61h=Command register/status register. 62h=Left channel data, 63h=Right channel data. Please refer to the MSM9842 documentation.

And that is all…

[opcode]

Prototype #2 is ready to go to manufacturing... The Oki chip is the only thing missing in this version. The PCB for the final module should be slightly smaller than this version, as I will replace all ICs with SMD versions.

[Ms. Do]

Prototype #2 is ready to go to manufacturing... The Oki chip is the only thing missing in this version. The PCB for the final module should be slightly smaller than this version, as I will replace all ICs with SMD versions.

 

Absolutely amazing work Opcode. Thank You so much for all the information and videos you have provided.

 

Off topic: Is a Galaga arcade port on your list for upcoming games after the Module is released?

[opcode]

Prototype #2 is ready to go to manufacturing... The Oki chip is the only thing missing in this version. The PCB for the final module should be slightly smaller than this version, as I will replace all ICs with SMD versions.

 

Absolutely amazing work Opcode. Thank You so much for all the information and videos you have provided.

 

Off topic: Is a Galaga arcade port on your list for upcoming games after the Module is released?

 

Galaga is high in my list, you can be sure.

[opcode]

Guys, I have created a new thread specifically about the module. All updates will be posted there from now on.

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/152166-the-official-super-expansion-module-thread/

I would like to thank everybody that contributed with suggestions here. For all of you who voted for the standalone, I want to let you know that once the module is behind me I will devote my "hardware time" to that, so no need to get that disappointed. I hope you guys understand that I chose to first pursue what I believe is the most feasible solution in terms of effort, time and cost. The reality is that creating and distributing a standalone console is a task that would require insane amounts of money and development time, so that will need to wait a bit, but as long as I am still around, I really hope to get back there eventually. Also, I believe the module has the potential to open many different doors for when we start talking seriously about the standalone, so stay tuned. A step a time...

BTW, the module has reached 55 names!

[Pixelboy]

The standalone is a great project in itself, but the internal electronics are only half of the project. The other half is the controller. Even if we go with a standard DB-9 connector on the console, I doubt people would want to use their aging standard CV controllers on a modern standalone CV clone. We'd need something like a custom controller with a proper modern D-pad and a 12-key keypad.

 

A possible strategy would be to develop the standalone prototype and use a standard CV controller with it, and then approach River West Brands with this prototype. Since they already have connections with handheld toy manufacturers, perhaps they would be in a good position to help you out with the modern controller issue. Apparently, D-Pads and compatible keypads are not easy to find these days...

[opcode]

The standalone is a great project in itself, but the internal electronics are only half of the project. The other half is the controller. Even if we go with a standard DB-9 connector on the console, I doubt people would want to use their aging standard CV controllers on a modern standalone CV clone. We'd need something like a custom controller with a proper modern D-pad and a 12-key keypad.

 

A possible strategy would be to develop the standalone prototype and use a standard CV controller with it, and then approach River West Brands with this prototype. Since they already have connections with handheld toy manufacturers, perhaps they would be in a good position to help you out with the modern controller issue. Apparently, D-Pads and compatible keypads are not easy to find these days...

 

Controllers are one of many problems. Personally I don't like D-pads, they just don't mix well with classic gaming. IMHO the best controller ever is the Atari 2600 joystick. However that design makes it hard to include a second button or a keypad. The Super Action Controller seems like a good design candidate, but the internals are crap and it's kind of oversized for all but the biggest hands. The action buttons are also uncomfortable. A similar design, the Atari SpaceAge joystick, is much better, but it has a single action button. Anyway if I was going to pursue a custom design I would go with something like the SAC/SpaceAge. Otherwise I would go with arcade joysticks using MDF wood cases.

And about getting help from RWB and Coleco, I suspect they are no more.... Try coleco.com. Perhaps now they can sell us the brand at a low price...

Edited October 19, 2009 by opcode

[128Kgames]

The standalone is a great project in itself, but the internal electronics are only half of the project. The other half is the controller. Even if we go with a standard DB-9 connector on the console, I doubt people would want to use their aging standard CV controllers on a modern standalone CV clone. We'd need something like a custom controller with a proper modern D-pad and a 12-key keypad.

 

A possible strategy would be to develop the standalone prototype and use a standard CV controller with it, and then approach River West Brands with this prototype. Since they already have connections with handheld toy manufacturers, perhaps they would be in a good position to help you out with the modern controller issue. Apparently, D-Pads and compatible keypads are not easy to find these days...

 

Controllers are one of many problems. Personally I don't like D-pads, they just don't mix well with classic gaming. IMHO the best controller ever is the Atari 2600 joystick. However that design makes it hard to include a second button or a keypad. The Super Action Controller seems like a good design candidate, but the internals are crap and it's kind of oversized for all but the biggest hands. The action buttons are also uncomfortable. A similar design, the Atari SpaceAge joystick, is much better, but it has a single action button. Anyway if I was going to pursue a custom design I would go with something like the SAC/SpaceAge. Otherwise I would go with arcade joysticks using MDF wood cases.

And about getting help from RWB and Coleco, I suspect they are no more.... Try coleco.com. Perhaps now they can sell us the brand at a low price...

 

I've got a third party controller I always liked the look of, have to dig it out sometime. Can't remember the brand, but it was black with a red joystick, with the keypad on top and the joystick on the bottom. I think it was also "bent" in the middle where the joystick and pad meet. Got a pair in a auction from someone with "stuff in the attic" but if memory serves me I don't think the controllers were 100% complete or not 100% working, which is why I never used them.

 

But they were in my opinion the coolest looking of the third party replacement controllers. Might be able to take the basic design and update the innards to something more "Wico-Esq", or at least a little more modern. I'll take a look for them this weekend and post pics, unless someone knows any site with pics of the different Coleco controllers...

[youki]

In my opinions the best joystick ever is the Atari CX 24

 

 

 

I bought my first one in 1983 for my colecovision in order to play Activision's decathlon. (CV original joystick can not survice to decathlon). For somebody who was used to CV joystick the take of position is very similar. It is why i choosed that one back in time.

 

I still use that joystick almost daily!. (noawaday mainly with the stella adapter for PC) And It is the one i bought in 1983. I used it intensivly on all machine i had back in time , Colecovision, C64, Atari ST, Amiga . Then with all machine in my collection that can use it. I never had to repair it , it still works!.

 

However, i bought a set of brand new CX 24 recently. And That serie was cleary not builded with the same quality that the original one i have.

 

In addition it is very easy to modified the joystick to make take in account the second button as a second button for the coleco.

[ApolloBoy]

In my opinions the best joystick ever is the Atari CX 24

 

 

Ack! Not sure if that'd be a good choice for the standalone. I'd love to have a controller with a D-pad and a keypad in the center. Opcode, do you have a rough estimate of when the standalone system will be introduced? If it has a cartridge port and comes with new, more comfortable controllers I'd seriously sell my CV for one.

[youki]

I'd love to have a controller with a D-pad and a keypad in the center.

 

Like the Atari Jaguar pad?

 

 

Personnally, i hate D-Pad. It is "next gen" for me.

[Bill Loguidice]

Well, hopefully not like the Atari Jaguar controller, as that's an awful design as far as I'm concerned. So not only are we asking him to design a new, upgraded ColecoVision, we're asking him to do a custom controller as well? I have nothing against d-pads, of course, but frankly, ColecoVision games were designed for a joystick, so it should stay a joystick. As for getting new controllers with the new ColecoVision, I consider that highly unlikely. It's one thing to design a new system, it's another to do the molds and production for controllers. Just look at the fiasco with the USB Atari joysticks from Legacy Engineering.

 

What might not be a bad idea, though, is perhaps to have a keypad with a Y cable and then we'd have a choice of using original ColecoVision-compatible controllers or regular Atari-standard joysticks. I would think a keypad would be much easier to build than a reasonably sized custom joystick with keypad. Of course even that is probably asking too much... What I could envision is someone ELSE offering to sell custom ColecoVision controllers with arcade parts. That might work. After all, even modified regular ColecoVision controllers (clean up, new paint job, etc.) have been selling for >$100.

[Bruce Tomlin]

I think the Champ keypads were the right idea, but done the wrong way. And so was my idea to make a 7800 joystick that used a D9F jack and a 9-wire extension cable to connect to the console. But if you combine the ideas...

 

What I want to do is to rig up a Wico stick for 2-button CV operation, with a male D-9 plug on it to use a standard Coleco stick as a keypad. Most games don't need the keypad during the game, so it's no problem if the wire falls out.

[highinfidelity]

Sirs, excuse my intermission, but have you ever thought of the Vectrex controller? it has an 8-way DYNAMIC joystick, plus a row of 4 arcade-style buttons. It still impresses me for how much ahead of its time it was when it was released.

[youki]

I really don't like the Vectrex controller personnaly. I would love to have seen 3rd party controller (like spectravideo) for vectrex. But , to my knowledge , i don't think there was.

 

We could put also NEO GEO arcade stick they are very popular.

 

But why don't put the keypads built'in on the console itself?

[Bill Loguidice]

I like the Vectrex controller, but they're way too hard to find, and a fair portion of them have busted joysticks (at least they don't self center well or at all).

 

The keypad on the console thing was tried with the Dina, but that really didn't work out too well. Besides the fact there was only one keypad, you had to be by the system at all times (though of course given the length of the controller cords, that was probably a given). Add to that the fact if you wear out the keypad on the console, you're kind of screwed. Outside of using the original controllers, to me, the only practical solution outside of a custom combo unit is a keypad with a Y adapter to use any Atari-style or Sega-style controller.

[128Kgames]

Found what I was looking for, it's called "The Power Stick":

 

[youki]

I tried that one back in time, i didn't like at all.

 

There was a Spectravideo joystick for the coleco with a keypad QuickShot ??? (may be 10) .. it was lot better in my opinion.

 

 

#edit: It seems it is Quickshot 3 , in fact.

 

Edited October 23, 2009 by youki

[128Kgames]

I tried that one back in time, i didn't like at all.

 

There was a Spectravideo joystick for the coleco with a keypad QuickShot ??? (may be 10) .. it was lot better in my opinion.

 

 

#edit: It seems it is Quickshot 3 , in fact.

 

 

Yes, I have one of those as well. Kind of gaudy though, not something I would want for everyday use.

 

But I was speaking strictly from the "look" of the controller, that I liked the design of the "The Power Stick" best. Say the Power Stick design with a modern upgrade for the joystick, buttons # pad etc. That could be pretty cool.

 

Basically replacing the innards. I'd also change the red colors to grey to match the original controllers on the ColecoVision, maybe make the joystick black though. Endless possibilities.

[ApolloBoy]

I'd love to have a controller with a D-pad and a keypad in the center.

 

Like the Atari Jaguar pad?

I was thinking more like an NES controller with a small keypad where the Select and Start buttons are. Something just like this (apologies for the small pic):

[opcode]

The 2nd prototype board, bigger and better:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/152166-the-official-super-expansion-module-thread/page__pid__1870257__st__0entry1870257

[opcode]

For those who are still watching this thread, let me ask something just out of curiosity... Actually two questions.

In case I come to work on that standalone ColecoVision 2 thing in the future, what would you prefer:

 

Graphics===

Would you prefer the new CV to stay in the 8-bit realm or would you like to see it go full throttle to 16-bit graphics? In both cases it would be 99% backward compatible, though the 16-bits graphics option would increase the price like $10~$20.

 

Computer===

Would you like to see the CV2 having a few computer capabilities, like PS2 keyboard and mouse ports and a simple GUI/OS so that it could be used as a development system for new games or a hobbyist computer? Again the computer option would add to the price a bit (PS2 interfaces, RTC, etc), but nothing major. And try to forget the ADAM while you decide...

 

Oh, btw, what would be the absolute maximum you would pay for such a CV compatible console?

 

I like to plan things ahead, good ideas take time to mature, and I also like to have something to think about while I am taking showers...

[Bill Loguidice]

Graphics===

Would you prefer the new CV to stay in the 8-bit realm or would you like to see it go full throttle to 16-bit graphics? In both cases it would be 99% backward compatible, though the 16-bits graphics option would increase the price like $10~$20.

 

$10 - $20 is not much, but I would put the 16-bit thing in the strictly optional category. I know I would pay it, but I'd prefer option number 2 and things might add up.

 

Computer===

Would you like to see the CV2 having a few computer capabilities, like PS2 keyboard and mouse ports and a simple GUI/OS so that it could be used as a development system for new games or a hobbyist computer? Again the computer option would add to the price a bit (PS2 interfaces, RTC, etc), but nothing major. And try to forget the ADAM while you decide...

 

This sounds genuinely useful and - for those of without decent programming skills such as myself - a fun way to mess around. I would consider this a must-have for a stand-alone unit to increase its appeal beyond just the Coleco core or those looking to replace an aging ColecoVision.

 

Oh, btw, what would be the absolute maximum you would pay for such a CV compatible console?

 

My personal maximum would probably be $150, but I would think getting as far under that for a complete unit would help sales. It's also dependent upon the feature-set. If did everything you describe above, it would be much easier to justify $150 than without. Of course there are other considerations, like case and what-not, and a viable repair policy (if something goes wrong, I'd want to be able to send it back to you for the cost of shipping and return shipping for you to fix it). Just some stuff to think about.

 

So, to sum up, if you're thinking a cased unit with power supply (no controllers) that's 99% ColecoVision compatible, has programmable features and maybe even has the 16-bit enhancement, $150 is probably fair, maybe even slightly more.

[retroillucid]

I think you should make it ADAM compatible too

Would be cool to be able to play Original CV cart, Adam software and having the 16 bits feature

I think 150$ - 200$ is very fair price for a new CV

[opcode]

My personal maximum would probably be $150, but I would think getting as far under that for a complete unit would help sales. It's also dependent upon the feature-set. If did everything you describe above, it would be much easier to justify $150 than without. Of course there are other considerations, like case and what-not, and a viable repair policy (if something goes wrong, I'd want to be able to send it back to you for the cost of shipping and return shipping for you to fix it). Just some stuff to think about.

 

So, to sum up, if you're thinking a cased unit with power supply (no controllers) that's 99% ColecoVision compatible, has programmable features and maybe even has the 16-bit enhancement, $150 is probably fair, maybe even slightly more.

 

$150 is a pretty tight budget for such an ambitious project, considering we will need a plastic case, controllers, etc. You said no controllers but I think that would limit the appeal to the existing CV core audience, something we are trying to avoid, and we would be also missing a great opportunity to get rid of those crap CV controllers.

But ok, we can keep throwing around ideas and when the time comes we can simply start cutting some not so important or not so desirable stuff until we get to our target price point...