I'm so jealous of everyone on here that grew up with classic games

[NE146]

I never really dug Empire & ROTJ too much. I'm purely an original flick Star Wars fan.

 

I think what REALLY bugged me about Empire when I was a kid when all my expectations were at a boil and I went to watch it, all of a sudden I heard the UNMISTAKABLE voice of Ms. Piggy & Grover.. 2 characters I was intimately familiar with so I could not shake the voice out of my head and thus the illusion of Yoda was broken. This was supposed to be Star Wars not friggin SESAME STREET.

 

Sorry.. 1977 Star Wars = #1

Edited September 8, 2010 by NE146

[Tickled_Pink]

im happy I grew up in the 16-bit era now those were games

 

Indeed they were. SNES all the way. Mario Kart, Mario World, Yoshi's Island, Star Fox. I can go on and on

Apart from the ST, I completely bypassed the 16-bit world. The games always left me strangely cold ... they still do.

 

I've never had an urge to get my hands on a SNES or Megadrive/Genesis. I guess it's because SEGA and Nintendo popularised the gamepad ... Satan's answer to game control. I've always hated the damned things. They caused nothing but cramp, which is why I prefer the original Phat DS to the DS Lite. I can't hold the Lite without being in pain within 5 minutes.

 

It's also why I didn't buy the Jag until it was an end-of-line product.

 

The true classic gamer used joysticks and nothing else.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Tickled_Pink

[Cliff Friedel]

Vader was at his baddest in Empire. In Star Wars there were Imperial officers actually arguing with him! And he put up with it. In Jedi he saved his own soul if you will but that process required him to stop being the super villain that he'd been. In Empire, with the saber fights and Force choking anybody who screwed with his plans, he was at his most intimidating. Empire gave you the AT-ATs and the super star destroyer, you got to see Yoda and Boba Fett and Lando and Han getting carbon-frozen. Jedi doesn't compare, on any level. It's not bad, just not as good with the beginnings of the kiddie approach.

 

My thing with ROTJ that I never liked was that, from the beginning, it lost the "grit" that the other movies had. It felt big budget and it felt like the actors were above being the characters because they were famous. I don't know if that explains exactly what I mean, but another example of what I am talking about can be seen between Conan and Conan the Destroyer. The second one just felt like an effort to cash in and ROTJ felt like that to me also. That is not to say I think ROTJ isn't a good movie, it is, it just isn't as good as Empire Strikes Back.

[Manchester Utd. Fan]

Yeah, I remember being 3 years old in 1982 and getting my 2600. I hardly remembered what I was doing but getting that Atari for Christmas that year started me down the path of gaming that would last till this day. I'm glad that I was there from the beginning, to be able to see where we've come from and where it's going in the future!

[Recycled]

Got my first 2600 in 1980. I didn't appreciate it. Especially when I saw the add for ColecoVision in Electronic Games a year or so later. I spent my time pining for the CV and wasting my quarters in the arcades and storefronts.

[2600 For Life]

To no one in particular, but I wanted to chime in:

 

Go back, with a fresh mind, without any pre-conceived notions, and fully enjoy Empire.

 

It's absolutely the best Star Wars movie, to the point where I don't think it can really be debated. Someone had cited some examples from that movie, but I want to add "the interaction and dialogue between Han and Leia." Terrific. Watch the scene again right before Han gets frozen in carbonite (Leia: "I love you", Han: "I know."). I f'ing know. Han m'f'ing Solo! Sends chills down my spine every single time. Yes, there's no debate that it comes down to New Hope vs. Empire (as the best movie). And New Hope really is such a good movie, but man, Empire. Just an awesome, awesome movie.

[crunchysuperman]

My thing with ROTJ that I never liked was that, from the beginning, it lost the "grit" that the other movies had. It felt big budget and it felt like the actors were above being the characters because they were famous. I don't know if that explains exactly what I mean, but another example of what I am talking about can be seen between Conan and Conan the Destroyer. The second one just felt like an effort to cash in and ROTJ felt like that to me also. That is not to say I think ROTJ isn't a good movie, it is, it just isn't as good as Empire Strikes Back.

 

Toy sales became more profitable than ticket sales. In one film we went from action, romance, friendship, betrayal & loss to a teddy bear luau.

[Keatah]

ROTJ felt too sterile and big-budget-perfect production. Same with the next 3 movies they made after that!

 

Empire strikes back and the 1st one didn't feel that way at all!

 

Now, onto the cell phone thing, just turn the frakking thing off, use it like it was meant to be used. As a telephone! Not a surfing device or facebook thing or whatever. I hate all those social networking stuffs.

 

You got a groups of kids and everybody is texting and updating facebook instead of hanging out together. And the big companies are getting rich off that!

[Keatah]

The graphics on the 2600 and intellivision and colecovision and astrocade and 8-bits were generally warm and fuzzy in nature. They felt smart and alive. Synthesized and generated on-the-fly. Procedural, if you can apply the term here.

 

Now with the 16bit era, everything seemed to be bit mapped crap, and the processor simply had to look-up memory locations and dump them to the screen. No personality whatsoever. Dry paper cutouts.

[Keatah]

I just got my 2600 a month or so ago and I love it. Games like Adventure, Defender and Pac Man have already rocked my world and have shown me, flat out, what a real game is. THOSE are games.

 

But every time I turn it on I get very disappointed that I wasn't alive to see the system in its glory days; nostalgic for a time period I've never lived in would be the best way to put it I guess. It's not only Atari; INTV, Coleco, Vectrex, Fairchild.. all amazing, plus many others of course

 

I also wish I could have gone to the Arcades and played the greats; the games that defined genres and showed what video games were really capable of, how far they could push the boundaries of the real world. The games that were more than simply games.

 

And now what? Bit rot and dead carts? The icing on the cake. I couldn't be a part of the history, and now that history can't even be preserved.

 

Any other young guys on here feel the same way?

 

Emulation will let you play the stuff anytime anyplace. And there are quite a few functioning systems to be found in the garbage and in collector's homes. So there is no real shortage.

[Chris++]

At least the games are still so widely available (especially considering emulation); there's not much reason to regret your age. Just to balance things out: Be thankful for the vastly wider selection, and also how cheaply so many games can be played. You don't have to deal with the frustration we '80s kids had; at thirty to forty bucks per cartridge, the variety one could have at home was sparse! Drooling over screen-shots of unfamiliar games in magazines could be fun, but it certainly wasn't the most stimulating hobby in the world.

 

Also keep in mind that before the advent of affordable eight-bit computers, we had to resign ourselves to the fact that home games just weren't going to be quite as good as what we played in the arcades. There were glaring exceptions, of course -- that's why so many older players continue to praise the stand-out games. But when one saved up for, or received from parents, etc., something like VCS Pac-Man or one of the Swordquest games, we just had to shrug and make the best of it, and squeeze as much enjoyment out of the mediocre new acquisition as possible. Pricey = infrequent additions to one's home library of carts, even if one's parents had the money. Spending that much on a single game required justification, or at least the arrival of a holiday.

 

Having said all that, it wasn't Pac-Man or E.T. that killed the VCS's popularity (I'm in the "E.T.'s underrated" camp -- it's a pensively paced strategy-adventure, speaking expressly of Game 3. Avoid the other selections, at least at first. Dealing with the enemies and trying to play it as an action game is what gives a lot of people the idea that the adventure part of it doesn't work well). It was, rather, the flood of dogs from third-party companies that made us stop wanting to risk flushing away thirty 1983 dollars.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Chris++

[Recycled]

At least the games are still so widely available (especially considering emulation); there's not much reason to regret your age. Just to balance things out: Be thankful for the vastly wider selection, and also how cheaply so many games can be played. You don't have to deal with the frustration we '80s kids had; at thirty to forty bucks per cartridge, the variety one could have at home was sparse! Drooling over screen-shots of unfamiliar games in magazines could be fun, but it certainly wasn't the most stimulating hobby in the world.

 

Also keep in mind that before the advent of affordable eight-bit computers, we had to resign ourselves to the fact that home games just weren't going to be quite as good as what we played in the arcades. There were glaring exceptions, of course -- that's why so many older players continue to praise the stand-out games. But when one saved up for, or received from parents, etc., something like VCS Pac-Man or one of the Swordquest games, we just had to shrug and make the best of it, and squeeze as much enjoyment out of the mediocre new acquisition as possible. Pricey = infrequent additions to one's home library of carts, even if one's parents had the money. Spending that much on a single game required justification, or at least the arrival of a holiday.

 

Having said all that, it wasn't Pac-Man or E.T. that killed the VCS's popularity (I'm in the "E.T.'s underrated" camp -- it's a pensively paced strategy-adventure, speaking expressly of Game 3. Avoid the other selections, at least at first. Dealing with the enemies and trying to play it as an action game is what gives a lot of people the idea that the adventure part of it doesn't work well). It was, rather, the flood of dogs from third-party companies that made us stop wanting to risk flushing away thirty 1983 dollars.

 

 

Agreed.

 

I think it's better now myself. It can be an inexpensive hobby (or not, depending on what you want). Lots of great games at rock bottom prices (I don't do emulation). Plus a great homebrew movement. Not to mention that with easy research, you can get many reviews of the old games, so you don't waste your time with the dogs. As stated above, the amount of gaming available within your home now is astounding--compared to the 15 cartridges I had back in the good old days. I had a knack for buying the wrong games back then as well.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Recycled

[+wood_jl]

I am 40, so I grew up in the "golden age" of the 2600 (and 400/800 etc).... It was fun, but it wasn't as fun as we'd like to remember, compared to now. Being a kid in 1982 meant Atari 2600 (and 400/800) games were $40-$50 (in 1982 dollars) and you probably didn't have much money....newspaper route money, etc. A game was a rare and significant purchase for you. Now, you can have it all....hell, you can have it all on a Harmony Cart or even have some good ones in a joystick/console. There was no way in hell you could have a closet (or room) full of stuff as a kid back then.

 

I wonder how kids can go to school nowdays.......Xbox 360 Live in HD competing with high school studies?? Damn, I guess I'm glad I DID grow up then, because my Biology textbook would have had a hard time competing with Call of Duty (etc) if I had it in my youth.

[Keatah]

The one aspect that arcade games excelled in back then was the graphical x,y resolution and sound. Otherwise things like gameplay and themes and speed of on-screen activity was pretty much the same for home systems.

 

The 8-bit systems let us get caught up in the sound arena. But graphics on home systems didn't really go anywhere until the end of the 16-bit era.

[Christophero Sly]

Yeah, the Ewoks are kinda lame, but I don't buy into the rest of the criticisms I'm reading about ROTJ. On the contrary, the movie is packed with action, and it explores the same themes as the first two movies--friendship, betrayal, loss, etc. Plus, you can add themes of redemption and the fulfillment of destinies. It felt no "bigger budget" than the other two movies. Heck, the original is the paragon "Big Budget Movie". It was "bigger" than any movie ever, save maybe "Gone with the Wind".

 

The Jaba stuff was well done, the battle of Endor was thrilling, and as the denouement of the whole franchise, Luke's confrontation with Palpatine and his redemption of Vader was outstanding. IMO, as the final act of a trilogy, ROTJ did everything it was supposed to. I think folks are way too hard on it.

 

4000.

[Chris++]

Same here; I could never understand why the last real SW movie (sorry) was so widely criticized. It's not as if the cutesy Ewok scenes take up half the film. The Jabba sequence was excellent before Lucas added the music video in the '90s, and the space battles were absolutely eye-popping at the time. Hell, they're still cool; getting that many fast-moving ships on the screen at once was a result of the team's experience and improved technology over the course of the three films. I'd never seen anything like that before in my life. The experience of squishing into a packed theater and seeing "what happens" with about 47625672893563479223523556742 other kids, after being left hanging at the end of Empire, was a great deal of fun. One doesn't seem to have bells-on movie experiences like that anymore. I think all three movies have their numerous merits.

[psquare75]

Yeah, the Ewoks are kinda lame, but I don't buy into the rest of the criticisms I'm reading about ROTJ. On the contrary, the movie is packed with action, and it explores the same themes as the first two movies--friendship, betrayal, loss, etc. Plus, you can add themes of redemption and the fulfillment of destinies. It felt no "bigger budget" than the other two movies. Heck, the original is the paragon "Big Budget Movie". It was "bigger" than any movie ever, save maybe "Gone with the Wind".

 

The Jaba stuff was well done, the battle of Endor was thrilling, and as the denouement of the whole franchise, Luke's confrontation with Palpatine and his redemption of Vader was outstanding. IMO, as the final act of a trilogy, ROTJ did everything it was supposed to. I think folks are way too hard on it.

 

4000.

 

This..

 

I was always really happy with how ROTS closed up the series. LORD VADER.... ARISE.. The movie theatre was silent.. It was perfect IMO. The perfect downfall of a once great person.. whom isn't redeemed until 25 years later.. Leaving the theatre it was so sad.. Seeing how Vader was tricked and he finally gave in to the Dark Side out of desperation.

[ledzep]

Yeah, the Ewoks are kinda lame, but I don't buy into the rest of the criticisms I'm reading about ROTJ. On the contrary, the movie is packed with action, and it explores the same themes as the first two movies--friendship, betrayal, loss, etc. Plus, you can add themes of redemption and the fulfillment of destinies. It felt no "bigger budget" than the other two movies. Heck, the original is the paragon "Big Budget Movie". It was "bigger" than any movie ever, save maybe "Gone with the Wind".

 

The Jaba stuff was well done, the battle of Endor was thrilling, and as the denouement of the whole franchise, Luke's confrontation with Palpatine and his redemption of Vader was outstanding. IMO, as the final act of a trilogy, ROTJ did everything it was supposed to. I think folks are way too hard on it.

 

4000.

 

Not just "kinda lame" but exceedingly so. Think about it for a moment. A bunch of little furry creatures with sticks and stones who cannot physically run due to their builds (yes, I know what was required to film tiny furry aliens back then but the results were the results) are supposed to be able, with no real warning or preparation time, to defeat one of the Emperor's "crack" (I really question how good Stormtroopers can be given their myriad screw-ups during the Trilogy) legions of body-armored, armed Stormtroopers who happen to be supported by walkers. Yes yes, fantasy movie, suspension of disbelief, but even as a fan I couldn't buy that. And during that battle, close your eyes. Those aren't Ewoks anymore, they're a bunch of Daffy Ducks fighting the Empire (wooohooo hoooh-hoooohooo wooohooooohoooo...) with sticks and throwing rocks with the same amount of force behind them that an 8-year-old kid would have yet they're holding their own against the supposedly feared Stormtroopers. Laaaaaaaaaaaaaame. And one Muppet who looks old and is wise is one thing, a whole crew of them playing music for no other reason than to bring the whole story to a halt is something else.

 

Now, to be fair, the other stuff was mostly cool. The opening Luke-is-a-Jedi-now parts, the family reunion/fight on Jabba's skiff, the death of Yoda, the new Rebel and Imperial ships, that was all fine. But the decision to go back to what worked the first time (a new Death Star) was a mild cop-out, sort of like how after the second Indiana Jones movie the third went right back to the tried and true Jones vs. the Nazis to retrieve another Bible super artifact. Still, I liked the new Death Star and final saber fight with Vader. Good stuff. Just not quite "enough" after Empire raised the bar.

 

The original was certainly not "big budget" when compared to the next two. The original almost didn't get finished because Lucas ran out of the little money the studio would let him have. He had to beg for more time and funds. He cast mostly small-time actors, they had to half-ass many of the alien costumes in the Catina. "A New Hope" looks big-budget, sure, but it wasn't. It wasn't until the runaway success of that first movie that he could basically call all the shots with the subsequent episodes and really spend. Which, by the time the Prequels showed up, was the worst thing that could have happened.

 

Still, seeing them for the first time in an era when hardly anything could compare and everything they were doing in those Star Wars movies was new and better than every other movie (except for "2001: A Space Odyssey", "Close Encounters Of The Third Kind", "Alien" and "Blade Runner") could do. It's the same with arcade games. Now, sure, Q-Bert and Galaxian are primitive. Now, it's easy to play any game you want with MAME and console emulators. It's easy to backtrack. But it's much more thrilling experiencing the new/cool thing for the first time. Once that new thing gets established, though, the excitement wears off and it's replaced with impatience and demands for bigger and better and becoming jaded. Going to my first rock concerts was amazing! Holy crap, I love that group and their songs and now they're playing live right in front of me! After a while, though, it turns into you've seen this or that group enough times, the venue is too far away or the driving/parking sucks too much to deal with, you don't care to deal with the drunks and the belligerent fans, etc., etc. Takes a while sometimes but you get used to that new thing and it isn't new anymore. It might be improved and easier and cheaper and bigger but the "new" is gone. I really miss that with the Atari 2600 and arcades.

[Keatah]

But it's much more thrilling experiencing the new/cool thing for the first time. Once that new thing gets established, though, the excitement wears off and it's replaced with impatience and demands for bigger and better and becoming jaded. Going to my first rock concerts was amazing! Holy crap, I love that group and their songs and now they're playing live right in front of me! After a while, though, it turns into you've seen this or that group enough times, the venue is too far away or the driving/parking sucks too much to deal with, you don't care to deal with the drunks and the belligerent fans, etc., etc. Takes a while sometimes but you get used to that new thing and it isn't new anymore. It might be improved and easier and cheaper and bigger but the "new" is gone. I really miss that with the Atari 2600 and arcades.

 

Well, with technology and stuff, I try to avoid being first to experience something. It's called early adopter syndrome and is generally not cost-effective by a far margin. And you feel guilty afterwards. Waiting till something goes full mainstream and just before it goes out of 'style' is the best way to get something. Fighting for 1st and new is really a waste of time, you will come to see it sooner or later.

[akator]

When listening to Lucas, it's difficult to tell what's truth or fiction. His stories have changed a lot over the years. I first noticed it in the late 90s when he was promoting the prequels. He said something I thought was odd, so I went back through video tapes to find an earlier releases with interviews where he contradicted what he was saying several years later. Turns out he did that a lot.

 

Not just "kinda lame" but exceedingly so. Think about it for a moment. A bunch of little furry creatures with sticks and stones who cannot physically run due to their builds (yes, I know what was required to film tiny furry aliens back then but the results were the results) are supposed to be able, with no real warning or preparation time, to defeat one of the Emperor's "crack" (I really question how good Stormtroopers can be given their myriad screw-ups during the Trilogy) legions of body-armored, armed Stormtroopers who happen to be supported by walkers. Yes yes, fantasy movie, suspension of disbelief, but even as a fan I couldn't buy that. And during that battle, close your eyes. Those aren't Ewoks anymore, they're a bunch of Daffy Ducks fighting the Empire (wooohooo hoooh-hoooohooo wooohooooohoooo...) with sticks and throwing rocks with the same amount of force behind them that an 8-year-old kid would have yet they're holding their own against the supposedly feared Stormtroopers. Laaaaaaaaaaaaaame. And one Muppet who looks old and is wise is one thing, a whole crew of them playing music for no other reason than to bring the whole story to a halt is something else.

 

As one of Lucas' stories goes, the Ewok crap was originally going to be Wookies. That would have made a lot more sense. I don't remember why he changed it, but IIRC it was because he had recently adopted and wanted something "friendlier" to his new kids.

 

The original was certainly not "big budget" when compared to the next two. The original almost didn't get finished because Lucas ran out of the little money the studio would let him have. He had to beg for more time and funds. He cast mostly small-time actors, they had to half-ass many of the alien costumes in the Catina. "A New Hope" looks big-budget, sure, but it wasn't.

 

Because Star Wars was over budget, Lucas gave up his pay as director in trade for all merchandising rights. This was seen by all as a good will gesture and the studio continued to fund the movie. By the time it was completed, the movie had become one of the most expensive to date.

 

At the time, everyone snickered at merchandising because that was still small business. No one expected Star Wars to become so successful and for the merchandising to make several times more than the movie.

 

It wasn't until the runaway success of that first movie that he could basically call all the shots with the subsequent episodes and really spend. Which, by the time the Prequels showed up, was the worst thing that could have happened.

 

Sorta. It was because of the unexpected success of Star Wars that the studios exerted more control over Empire. They were willing to invest more and they wanted more guarantees that it would succeed. The studios insisted on quality control. Lucas didn't direct or write the screenplay, and that is one of the reasons the movie rocked.

 

Because of how "his vision was taken away from him" by the studio, Lucas still hates ESB.

 

With ROTJ, Lucas threw a tantrum and said he wouldn't make the movie unless full control was given back to him. The studio conceded and look what happened.

 

Now, it's easy to play any game you want with MAME and console emulators.

 

Regardless of what anyone else says, I still get a thrill by MAME. The "power" of having all of those arcade games whenever I want has never worn off. I even feel rich by pressing [1] on the keyboard to deposit a coin without having to pay a quarter. It was even better when I got my first X-Arcade and could play with real controls again.

 

I love the original machines, and I really admire the awesome home arcades some people have built. But maintaining old consoles and computers is already a lot of work, and taking on old arcade machines would push my hobby over the line from enjoyment to frustration (which it already sometimes crosses). Instead I'll build a new MAME cabinet and be happy. Thankfully that is an option

[MitchSchaft]

I can't wait to have a MAME setup. That would be a dream come true. Luckily, my dad is a carpenter by hobby and knows how to work with that stuff and has all the tools. I hope he will help me out when I'm ready to build one. I've seen a lot of cool plans online and have a couple picked out to model off of.

[Pioneer4x4]

I can't wait to have a MAME setup. That would be a dream come true. Luckily, my dad is a carpenter by hobby and knows how to work with that stuff and has all the tools. I hope he will help me out when I'm ready to build one. I've seen a lot of cool plans online and have a couple picked out to model off of.

My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.

[MitchSchaft]

Lucky!

[NE146]

I was always really happy with how ROTS closed up the series. LORD VADER.... ARISE.. The movie theatre was silent.. It was perfect IMO. The perfect downfall of a once great person.. whom isn't redeemed until 25 years later.. Leaving the theatre it was so sad.. Seeing how Vader was tricked and he finally gave in to the Dark Side out of desperation.

 

I know.. it just makes you want to scream..

 

[Christophero Sly]

The original was certainly not "big budget" when compared to the next two. The original almost didn't get finished because Lucas ran out of the little money the studio would let him have. He had to beg for more time and funds.

We weren't talking about the literal budget of the film. My comments were a response to the notion that ROTJ made a significantly different impression than the other two films, with the implication being that ROTJ had become somehow soulless, or whatever, in comparison. Again, I don't believe ROTJ had a significantly bigger budget feel than the other two films.

 

"A New Hope" looks big-budget, sure...

Exactly.

 

quote name='ledzep' date='Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:03 AM' timestamp='1284098637' post='2091090'

But it's much more thrilling experiencing the new/cool thing for the first time. Once that new thing gets established, though, the excitement wears off and it's replaced with impatience and demands for bigger and better and becoming jaded. Going to my first rock concerts was amazing! Holy crap, I love that group and their songs and now they're playing live right in front of me! After a while, though, it turns into you've seen this or that group enough times, the venue is too far away or the driving/parking sucks too much to deal with, you don't care to deal with the drunks and the belligerent fans, etc., etc. Takes a while sometimes but you get used to that new thing and it isn't new anymore. It might be improved and easier and cheaper and bigger but the "new" is gone. I really miss that with the Atari 2600 and arcades.

That's not my quote. It's ledzep's. Please fix the attribution.