DOWN WITH THE KING...

[doctorclu]

You know, I was talking to someone and he said that during the time of the Jaguar many stores were "Anti-Atari".

 

It was then it hit me, is it possible, after nearly a decade and a half of being on top with the 2600 that everyone had a slant to see the old king go, and cheered for the incoming underdogs at the time, like Nintendo and Sega?

 

Or the feeling of "Atari old, out with the old?"

[promethea]

You know, I was talking to someone and he said that during the time of the Jaguar many stores were "Anti-Atari".

 

It was then it hit me, is it possible, after nearly a decade and a half of being on top with the 2600 that everyone had a slant to see the old king go, and cheered for the incoming underdogs at the time, like Nintendo and Sega?

 

Or the feeling of "Atari old, out with the old?"

 

Maybe those stores had their fingers burnt by atari stuff and they had bad experience.

[Tom-Lynx]

Part of Atari's downfall was their poor treatment of distributors.

[brojamfootball]

Many stores took a real hit getting stuck with 2600 carts that they had to dump for just a few bucks each. I remember seeing department stores with games coming out of their ears for $5, and they still weren't selling much. People knew most of those games were junk, and they were right. Most were third party cash-in attempts, with the occasional good game mixed in, and it was hard to tell the difference when looking at giant stacks and baskets full of them.

 

I remember a Hills department store an a Gold Circle(I think turned into Target) that had whole areas of 2600 games being dumped at around five bucks. These sections of the store were as large as the entire electronics department in a Target or Wal-Mart today.

 

I'm sure they were hesitant to get back in bed with the same company that, directly or indirectly, had hurt them so badly just a few years before.

[108 Stars]

When the Jaguar arrived Atari had long lost its position as the king. Atari WAS the underdog by then. They had three consoles that flopped before the Jag came; the 5200, the 7800 and the Lynx all failed commercially against the competition. Stores did not want to carry Jaguar because after a decade of failure they were sure that they would be sitting on loads of unsold Atari-stuff again.

When Nintendo first entered the console market in the USA, they treated the stores well; they guaranteed to take back any unsold systems, they delivered and at times decorated stores themselves. To get the Jaguar into stores Atari would have had to give them similar guarantees; but they already had a notorious past for not being dependable partners.

 

Basically, it was not bringing a king down; it was about not feeding the half-starved bum that had been an annoyance for years anymore.

[kool kitty89]

When the Jaguar arrived Atari had long lost its position as the king. Atari WAS the underdog by then. They had three consoles that flopped before the Jag came; the 5200, the 7800 and the Lynx all failed commercially against the competition. Stores did not want to carry Jaguar because after a decade of failure they were sure that they would be sitting on loads of unsold Atari-stuff again.

 

I think the 7800 did surprizingly well given the circumstances (limited advertizing and game library). Nintendo still pounded them of course, but I haven't seen the Master System Sales figures for the US, so I can't compare. (Though I have a feeling it's somewhat less than the 7800's 3.77 million figure, mind you this is the figures for 1986-1990, granted the limited sales in the original 1984 launch and post 1990 were relatively small in the US) I also wonder how it did in Europe, supposedly it was stronger there, though in comparison to the Master System it would be less (given that was the SMS's strong market), it wouldprobably compare mch better with the NES than in the US though.

 

 

Anyway I don't think the burns the 1983 crash left on retailers toward Atari were a factor by then. I think it had more to do with the Atar name possibly seeming old, and also due to the limited support (particularly advertizing) the Jaguar was getting. That and Atari had pretty much been of the radar in general for several years, the ST line wasn't particularly popular in the US and wasn't really in th econsole scene anyway, the Lynx was, but it was obscure as well.

 

I'd immagine the Jag could have picked up better in Europe given the greater populatity of the ST line and I think the Lynx as well, though I'm not sure how much the Jag was pushed in Europe compared to the US.

[BuddyBuddies]

When the Jaguar arrived Atari had long lost its position as the king. Atari WAS the underdog by then. They had three consoles that flopped before the Jag came; the 5200, the 7800 and the Lynx all failed commercially against the competition. Stores did not want to carry Jaguar because after a decade of failure they were sure that they would be sitting on loads of unsold Atari-stuff again.

When Nintendo first entered the console market in the USA, they treated the stores well; they guaranteed to take back any unsold systems, they delivered and at times decorated stores themselves. To get the Jaguar into stores Atari would have had to give them similar guarantees; but they already had a notorious past for not being dependable partners.

 

Basically, it was not bringing a king down; it was about not feeding the half-starved bum that had been an annoyance for years anymore.

this sadly sums it up pretty good. Atari really had the cards stacked against them with the Jaguar.

 

 

JAGUAR RULES!

[Sayton]

I heard Wal-Mart didn't sell Jag stuff.

 

Now look at it...all these years later and they STEAL the Jag slogan of "Do The Math".

[108 Stars]

I haven't seen the Master System Sales figures for the US, so I can't compare. (Though I have a feeling it's somewhat less than the 7800's 3.77 million figure, mind you this is the figures for 1986-1990, granted the limited sales in the original 1984 launch and post 1990 were relatively small in the US) I also wonder how it did in Europe, supposedly it was stronger there, though in comparison to the Master System it would be less (given that was the SMS's strong market), it wouldprobably compare mch better with the NES than in the US though.

 

I don´t think 7800 and SMS were very far apart from each other in the US, I can´t say which one did better though. But what I can say is that the SMS absolutely obliberated the 7800 in Europe. It goes that far that I have never even seen a 7800 physically back in the days. The only place I ever saw it was a flyer that came with my 2600 (or some 2600 games), while quite a few kids had SMS or NES. The 7800 was almost non-existent here, basically even the 2600 still outsold the 7800 in the late 80ies.

[BuddyBuddies]

I heard Wal-Mart didn't sell Jag stuff.

 

Now look at it...all these years later and they STEAL the Jag slogan of "Do The Math".

YES THEY DID!! I have polaroid pictures of them being sold in WAL-MART!!

 

 

JAGUAR RULES!

[108 Stars]

Dude, no offense, but is it really neccessary to finish every post with JAGUAR RULES? You already have it in your sig, it really seems a bit silly to write it down again in each and every post....

[doctorclu]

LOL!! Well that's just him keeping things positive.

 

Anyway, I've been reading a lot of the message traffic from work (can't reply), but I think you're right, I think Atari did burn a lot of bridges, and really might have been a good part of people hating Atari by the time the Jaguar was in the stores.

 

The whole down with the king concept, I think that people really wanted to see Atari fail. Atari was once king, Atari tended to push people around while king, the king fell, and people made sure Atari stayed down.

[Tursi]

Yeah.. WalMart carried the Jag through the Christmas season, and dropped it (and reportedly returned unsold stock) when after Christmas the returns came pouring in.

 

It wasn't just marketing that killed the Jag, although that was a huge part of it (the kids all wanted a Playstation), they just didn't have enough killer games to compete with Sony and Saturn pushing 3D

[BuddyBuddies]

Dude, no offense, but is it really neccessary to finish every post with JAGUAR RULES? You already have it in your sig, it really seems a bit silly to write it down again in each and every post....

if i didnt then people would wonder what is wrong with me!

[future assassin]

In the Sega Genesis/NES days I don't know anyone who knew anything about the 7800 or Atari anymore at least in my neck of the woods (Kamloops BC) All my friends and school mates only knew NES and Genesis. There was no talk about Atari but people also knew Turbo Graphix but that didn't last long.

 

As for selling Atari Jaguar, the only place that sold it locally was Consumers Distributing and Sears had the Lynx on their floor up front. It was displayed for quite a while.

[kool kitty89]

In the Sega Genesis/NES days I don't know anyone who knew anything about the 7800 or Atari anymore at least in my neck of the woods (Kamloops BC) All my friends and school mates only knew NES and Genesis. There was no talk about Atari but people also knew Turbo Graphix but that didn't last long.

 

Advertizing for the 7800 (sans the earlier stuff done by Warner/Atari Inc.) was very limited, so that's no wonder, a large portion of thos who did know probably had been waiting for a while after the 1984 advertizing. (or possibly in an Atari flyer, catalogue, or poster, otherwise people probably found out by seeing it in the store)

 

You mention the NES and Genesis (both given, as popular as the were), and the more obscure TG-16, but what about the Master System, did you ever hear anyone talk about it? (It's popularity in the US being more in line with the 7800, if not less -in terms of console sales; both game library and advertizing were greater)

Edited August 16, 2009 by kool kitty89

[108 Stars]

if i didnt then people would wonder what is wrong with me!

 

Haha, it´s okay; with this post you at least showed me that you could do it.^^

 

The TG-16...now that was a completely unknown thing in Europe. It never saw an official EU-release after the lukewarm US-sales. Only people into reading multiplatform-mags knew it existed. But quite frankly, looking at the game library of it today I doubt it would have made any impact in Europe beside with the dedicated shmup-fans.

[future assassin]

In the Sega Genesis/NES days I don't know anyone who knew anything about the 7800 or Atari anymore at least in my neck of the woods (Kamloops BC) All my friends and school mates only knew NES and Genesis. There was no talk about Atari but people also knew Turbo Graphix but that didn't last long.

 

Advertizing for the 7800 (sans the earlier stuff done by Warner/Atari Inc.) was very limited, so that's no wonder, a large portion of thos who did know probably had been waiting for a while after the 1984 advertizing. (or possibly in an Atari flyer, catalogue, or poster, otherwise people probably found out by seeing it in the store)

 

You mention the NES and Genesis (both given, as popular as the were), and the more obscure TG-16, but what about the Master System, did you ever hear anyone talk about it? (It's popularity in the US being more in line with the 7800, if not less -in terms of console sales; both game library and advertizing were greater)

 

The Sega Master System? If so then this was out around the same time NES came out. I remember because a friend of mine had it and we were always walking in the fucking snow for hours to get to the nearest game rental (Overwaitea Foods).

[future assassin]

if i didnt then people would wonder what is wrong with me!

 

Haha, it´s okay; with this post you at least showed me that you could do it.^^

 

The TG-16...now that was a completely unknown thing in Europe. It never saw an official EU-release after the lukewarm US-sales. Only people into reading multiplatform-mags knew it existed. But quite frankly, looking at the game library of it today I doubt it would have made any impact in Europe beside with the dedicated shmup-fans.

 

It was big here but died out very fast. Tons of tv ads and Woodwards (big retail chain in the day) used to carry it and also had the CD add on.

[Video]

Down with the king?? I doubt it. The 2600 was a HUGE success, and it sold even into the 90's, despite leaving retailers with huge amounts of worthless stock in the early 80's.

 

You gotta remember that Atari essentially died, and was rebooted several times during the 80's and 90's. In short, Atari was king of jack shit by the time the Jaguar came on the scene.

 

As for the 80's, uh..."nintendo took care of retailers? Huh???" Yeah, Nintendo "took" care of retailers, with outrageous monopolistic practices, including requireing retailers ro deal with them, and only them, or not deal with them at all. People seem to either forget, or forgive this action for whatever reason.

 

This is part of the reason so many folks had NES's back in the 80's, but so few SMS and 7800's were around. That being said, I knew of one person that had a SMS back in the day, and two people with 7800's, which is funny, as you only find the uber rare SMS at the fleamarkets, and zero 7800's.

 

Another funny thing, I don't recall seeing 7800's in stores here, but like I've said before, we're the toilet of the nation, if something gets here, it's some good shit, but that's a big IF. Never saw the Lynx, or the Jaguar either. Walmart may have caried them, but it most certainly was NOT a chainwide thing. Hell, evven the FB and FB2, which apparently sold rather well, never sold here.

 

I read about the Jaguar.....in a hunting Magazine (of all things) once, and only once. Never saw it anywhere else. I waited and waited, this is from like 93, but it never showed here. I finely got on in about 97, from Go atari (under a different name at the time) and bought my friends Jag soon after, he's the only person that I even knew of that even knew of the Jaguar, much less owned one. Hell, every body I evver talked to about it just said pretty much I was pulling it out my ass, and as this was before the internet became such a useful tool, I had absolutely no proof whatsoever.

 

Something else people seem to miss or forget, for whatever reason. VGmags went out of their way to shit on the Jaguar. I don't know why, other than likely Nintendo was paying them off or something. It was regularly some problem, useually dissing the "horrid" controller (the only one worth a damn between the Jaguar, SNES, and Genesis (not even going to count the other trash controllers from the time) There was the constant ragging on how the games werent' any better than the other console counterparts....which unfortunately, in many cases was true.

 

As near as I can tell, it's one of the worst selling consoles of all time (not couning uber limited run proto systems or someting.

 

Anyhow...as I said, it's certinlay not any type of down with the king type of thing, even with people not supporting it, or outright dissing it, it was simply from a at that point, pretty much nobody company.

 

I personally loved it, but that doesn't really change the facts now does it?

[BuddyBuddies]

i think every magazine shit on the Jag. , JAGUAR RULES!

[Pete5125]

Atari did most retailers dirty in the early 80's so much so that the crash happened leaving many retailersto lose a ton of money w/ tons of games they would never sell(Intellivision/Collecovision and others were guilty of this as well but their video game devisions went under).

 

So Nintendo enters in around 85 or so and pleads with retailers that they will come in their store sell them guaranteed/sale product, merchandise the store, promis of some sort of quality seal to try to keep some of the crap games out of the market...it took a year or 2 but NES was now a money maker and they then became a monopoly, as a retailer if you followed their rules then you will make a ton of money, and unless you were a video game or toy store, why would you as a retailer care, you are in the buisness to make money and you have the top selling system that owns 90% of the market, plus if you follow Nintendos rules then they would get you a top selling product with merchandising like no other company.

 

Atari, by the time Jag had come on sceen, had made (it was the mid 90's)last time Atari made a retailer money would be pre 82, so every product that you have brought in your shop...(5200, 7800, XE, and Lynx) have bombed in 1 way or another, while they may have made a little money at the begining of the run for these systems if they stuck w/ any of them then they lost money since other than the Lynx all the systems bombed within a year or so.

 

Also, if you are a local game store and you tell a customer a 16 year old kid that saved his money all summer to buy one system w/ his $200 plus buy some games, and you tell him this Jag is a great way to spend his money knowing that Atari is none for making system after system w/ 2 years or less of life. He also wants his customer to stay loyal to him...so tell him to get the Jag or the Sega Saturn(Sega at this point had not started canceling systems like crazy)or Sony that had sunk like 50 Million into advertising.

 

So I can understand, when I bought mine the retailer is like if you are buying it to get Temptest, AvsP, and Iron Soldier (you could at that point you could get the system and those games for the price of a Saturn)then great but long term, Sega had Virtua Fighter running on their system and nothing on the Jag looks like this, and Tekens coming on this new Sony system.

 

I was like screw you Atari rules they have never done me wrong....then a year later Atari was done w/ video Games...and I bought a Sega Saturn....Sega's never done me wrong....dang, again....so N64 here I come

[Iron Draggon]

I for one developed an extreme distrust of Atari after getting burned by the 5200 and witnessing the subsequent crash of the entire video game industry. It all left such a bad taste in my mouth that I sat out the entire NES era, because I didn't trust this new Nintendo company either, nor was I willing to take any risk getting a new Sega system. So I just watched it all go by, and rolled my eyes at all the fools falling for it again. Seeing all the NES carts available in the strangest places just seemed like a repeat of what happened with the 2600, and I was sure that eventually there'd be yet another crash, and that would be it for video games for good. Then the Sega Genesis arrived with Sonic the Hedgehog to change my mind, and I became a strict Sega loyalist until Nintendo came out with Donkey Kong Country for the SNES, and finally got me to give them a chance. Then I couldn't resist getting a 3DO so I could play Need for Speed, and I had to get a Jag & Jag CD so I could play Tempest 2000 and fiddle with the VLM. I was still pretty sure that the Jag would prove to be a failure, but since all I really wanted it it for was the VLM and that one game, it didn't really matter to me. I hoped it would last and end up with alot more games, but when it didn't, I wasn't the least bit surprised. It was exactly what I expected to happen within a short time. And I suspect things were the same for most everyone else. Oh look, a new Atari failure waiting to happen. Been there, bought that, got burned. There was nothing they could do to impress anyone more than they did with that one game, and you either bought a Jag so you could play it or you didn't, until it came out on Saturn and Playstation too, and then you didn't even need to buy a Jag just so you could play the one game it had that was worth playing! So who needed a Jag then? Fans of really bland 3D flat shaded polygon games? There weren't any. It was like FMV games on the Sega CD all over again. Too many games nobody wanted to play, and nowhere near enough games everyone wanted to play. And that's all we're left with now. The homebrews are no different from the licensed games. Way more coming soon that will never actually be released, and the rest is just as crappy as the crap that was licensed. I keep waiting for a real team of devs to start cranking out some real games for the Jag, but it's still the same old solo projects that have been in development for decades, and the same old empty promises of much more to come. Yeah, right. We're all gonna have hundreds of homebrews in our libraries soon, and they're all gonna be worth playing. And I'm gonna make a fortune selling copies of my new homebrew, London Bridge is Falling Down, coming soon!

[marigul]

At the end of the day Atari had the mentality of the product sells it self, thus spent a small amount of pennies on marketing. Of course do the math was a horrible slogan for a device that wants to be fun. Then there was the ads in the zoo (I think with animals f*cking as I recall) and wasn't there an infomercial?

 

Had the programmers been able to advantage of the main processors, there probably would have been some cooler stuff and the machine would be more in the TG-16 status of cult rather than the kind of cruel joke status it's in now. It's cool too see that there are defenders of the machine out there and appreciate the long hours that we put into the games no matter how crappy some of them turned out.

 

Actually the mags wanted us to succeed, as true gamers they were excited to come around, but at the end of the day there were too many delays and most of the games were not worth the wait, so I think at some point they formed a grudge against the machine.

[kool kitty89]

At the end of the day Atari had the mentality of the product sells it self, thus spent a small amount of pennies on marketing. Of course do the math was a horrible slogan for a device that wants to be fun.

 

Hmm, wasn't the early slogan "Get bit by Jaguar!" ?