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Dude, DECENT letter quality printer technologies existed long before the 1027 came out.. The printhead design in that thing was meant for use in a desktop adding machine's built in printer.. not something that you are gonna print entire pages of text (let alone hundreds of pages) on a regular basis.. In the role of a full-page 80 column letter quality printer (this means comparing it to other designs sold for the same supposed purpose at the same time, or previously) it most certainly is the biggest pile of piss poorly designed garbage that atari ever tried to pass off on the public..

 

You can't compare a "robotic rubber stamp" to a daisywheel or ball-type LQ printer..

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Oh, wow! I've totally seen the light now! It really IS a piece of garbage and I completely think it's pathetic and stupid now! I'm just going to go right ahead and throw it out the window since it's such a lame piece of trash. You've sure convinced me not to think it's nifty in its own right! :roll:

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Well, I suppose that "niftiness" is in the eye of the beholder. 1027s are good for parts.. The SIO connectors they used in them are pretty high quality, and theres about a 2amp solid state bridge rectifier in it too.. and of course, the steppers & drivers (as someone mentioned before) are suitable for messing around with simple robotics projects..

 

It was just a really BAD design decision on ATARI's part, from the standpoint of a printer.

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I think I have to agree with Ken ("MEtalGuy66") regarding the 1027 (yes, I've got one of my own, and yes, its print head is now dissolved and useless).

 

It's easy for collectors of today to be seduced by the novelty of classic computers and peripherals from the late 1970s and early 1980s. This is especially true of collectors who are just starting out, or who are too young to remember this stuff when it was new, or who have a kind of idealized childhood memory of it. Artifacts of that era are (at least to collectors like me) so much more varied and interesting than modern computer hardware, and the best of them were built with an impressive kind of quality and durability that one does not often see today, making them seem even more striking and unusual to 21st-century observers. But if you consider them all in context, and if you compare them objectively to what was available at the time, you have to admit that some of those items you may be most nostalgic for were just plain ugly, or were poorly designed, or had serious flaws right out of the box. They may be "nifty," or they may have been useful to you in their own way when they were new. That doesn't necessarily mean they were good.

Edited by jaybird3rd
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Dude, DECENT letter quality printer technologies existed long before the 1027 came out.. The printhead design in that thing was meant for use in a desktop adding machine's built in printer.. not something that you are gonna print entire pages of text (let alone hundreds of pages) on a regular basis.. In the role of a full-page 80 column letter quality printer (this means comparing it to other designs sold for the same supposed purpose at the same time, or previously) it most certainly is the biggest pile of piss poorly designed garbage that atari ever tried to pass off on the public..

 

You can't compare a "robotic rubber stamp" to a daisywheel or ball-type LQ printer..

 

So please clarify something for me, and I am not trying to be antagonistic I just really want to know. Were you an Atari user back in the early 80's? The reason I ask is that because for me and my family, the 1027 was the solution to our problem. Sure there may have been better letter quality equipment out there, but turnkey the 1027 was the solution. It fit our budget, and we didn't have to go out and buy a 850 interface, or one of the aftermarket Centronics interfaces. Just because better technology existed, doesn't mean it was within reach of everyone. I lived in the middle of nowhere technology wise, so you didn't just go down and purchase your items either. It had to be purchased by sending a check to the merchant, waiting for it to clear, and then waiting for the item to arrive. That could be a month down the road, and there wasn't any "testing" things out.

 

Regardless, I found the 1027, to be a pretty cool piece of equipment, and even if you don't feel that it was "not something that you are gonna print entire pages of text (let alone hundreds of pages) on a regular basis..", that is exactly what we did with it, and it worked every time. I printed school papers, and my parents both used it for work all the time. I am sure my little 1027 printed thousands of pages.

 

You are trying to compare apples to oranges here, and frankly it doesn't work. Why isn't there the same fervor for our Atari compatible only single side single density drives. I am sure Commodore had a much better design, hell I would venture to say if you asked a c64 person, ours "don't compare". God forbid the belts were made of some material that wasn't holding up today. Would be just bury all of the 810's and 1050's? Besides, decent floppy and magnetic storage existed long before the atari drives came out.

 

It's a piece of atari history, and just because you aren't fond of it doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to save it just like all these other piles of sh!t I have laying around my house with a fuji logo. It's obviously so bad you made it a point to single it out. Jaybird states "They may be "nifty," or they may have been useful to you in their own way when they were new. That doesn't necessarily mean they were good." Well, that applies to every old piece of computer equipment I own, and includes the standup video games I have in my gameroom. Really guys, I am willing to bet that if the print heads on the 1027 weren't dissolving at this day and age, we wouldn't even be having this conversation as people would still be using them. I know I would have no problem cranking out school papers and such for the kids, etc. All we are asking about is if someone can use today's technology to come up with new print heads. It's not like we are asking to have them converted to laser or print out the contents of the library of congress. We just want to save a piece of history which regardless of whether you deem it worthy or not, we do.

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I know this has been discussed to death, already, but has anyone actually ever tried to take a mold in plaster or plastic of the typeface at least so we can get a rough facsimile. Not as good as a injection mold, true, but from there one could piece the other parts together into a final mold of the entire piece. Maybe pretty rough in the final product..but modern synthetics would seem to be more durable..

That is totally so backwards as to how to proceed it is guaranteed to fail. Modern synthetics is where Atari went wrong in the first place. You need to use the highest grade Neoprene rubber (WW II age tech) which is impervious to oil based inks which is what the 1027 uses. What we need to save is the printed text so that a matching Font can be constructed using CAD. Molds of plaster are worthless, they need to be made of steel.

 

The biggest obstacle is someone who loves the 1027 and has the deep pockets for injection molds hasn't shown up yet. Costing thousands of dollars, Atari should have done it right to begin with and we wouldn't be having these discussions at all today. Including MEtalGuy66's point, he would probably be saying that they are so slow as to be next to worthless but nobody is really listening to his points anyway. Those of us who really used and loved the 1027 still do. Rabidly. Until daddy warbucks shows up I suspect it's RIP for the 1027, but I'm hanging onto mine just the same.

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The biggest obstacle is someone who loves the 1027 and has the deep pockets for injection molds hasn't shown up yet. Costing thousands of dollars, Atari should have done it right to begin with and we wouldn't be having these discussions at all today. Including MEtalGuy66's point, he would probably be saying that they are so slow as to be next to worthless but nobody is really listening to his points anyway. Those of us who really used and loved the 1027 still do. Rabidly. Until daddy warbucks shows up I suspect it's RIP for the 1027, but I'm hanging onto mine just the same.

 

The heads are disintegrating, but has anyone started measuring these? Everyone is obsessed with casting an existing head, but how about documenting size (width, diameter)? Documenting the order of the characters on the roller head? It seems like everyone is waiting for someone else to do the work.

 

And I could point the finger back at myself, but I don't have and have never had a 1027...

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That is totally so backwards as to how to proceed it is guaranteed to fail. Modern synthetics is where Atari went wrong in the first place. You need to use the highest grade Neoprene rubber (WW II age tech) which is impervious to oil based inks which is what the 1027 uses. What we need to save is the printed text so that a matching Font can be constructed using CAD. Molds of plaster are worthless, they need to be made of steel.

 

The biggest obstacle is someone who loves the 1027 and has the deep pockets for injection molds hasn't shown up yet. Costing thousands of dollars, Atari should have done it right to begin with and we wouldn't be having these discussions at all today. Including MEtalGuy66's point, he would probably be saying that they are so slow as to be next to worthless but nobody is really listening to his points anyway. Those of us who really used and loved the 1027 still do. Rabidly. Until daddy warbucks shows up I suspect it's RIP for the 1027, but I'm hanging onto mine just the same.

I think probably most of the hurdle so far has been figuring out how to "save" what we need to save. I know the 1027 I had the printhead is gone. So I don't have one to measure/mold/photograph. It does sound like you know quite a bit about the process.

 

I guess the first part would be identifying who has a printhead that while might still be very fragile, hasn't disintegrated to the point of where we could use it to measure/mold/photograph.

 

Then the next step is what do we do to get something that we can make the steel molds made?

 

For me, it's just a lack of knowledge in the process. I know someone who runs a machine shop and will see if I can call and ask him his opinion. He might not even have the right type of machines or shop but it's worth a try. Also, should we splinter this off to a new thread? One that people can ignore if they really don't want to hear about 1027's?

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Hmm, I have two of these 1027s sitting around, and I think I'll part them... they're worth more to me for the SIO connector than what I could sell them for on eBay (considering you can't print with them.) Otherwise, I have to admit to thinking they aren't much use either... but I'm not a "save everything Atari" kind of guy (although my wife probably thinks I am), and I certainly don't have a nostalgia for printers.

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I don't really have nostalgia for printers, I never had one of these, let alone an Atari computer growing up. I just want to tinker around with it and see what I'm missing out on, and learn as much about the system as possible! :D I was missing out on a lot on the 1200XL, apparently, but not missing out on the 1027! It's interesting to learn that these printers were real dogs. I'd still like to use it, but perhaps in another lifetime.

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Hmm, I have two of these 1027s sitting around, and I think I'll part them... they're worth more to me for the SIO connector than what I could sell them for on eBay (considering you can't print with them.) Otherwise, I have to admit to thinking they aren't much use either... but I'm not a "save everything Atari" kind of guy (although my wife probably thinks I am), and I certainly don't have a nostalgia for printers.

 

Good idea.. Also, the front brown plastic panel is the one beetle used for the front of the drive-bay area of his "home-built" 1450XLD clone..

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  • 2 months later...

Well, I'm new to the Atari Age scene here. Got a 2600 and am now ebaying to get a 8bit computer and peripherals. Seems like a fun way to learn how to work with the innards of a computer and all.

 

I doubt the 1027 I won on ebay (it was dirt cheap, so I figured 'why not' just to say I have one) will be in any good condition. But however it arrives, I am willing to take photographic documentation of the print head. I can buy some precision calipers and make measurements at some point. Etc. No guarentees. The reason it is so cheap on ebay may have been the poor condition the print head is in.

 

As for a printing sample, while not all letters are represented, you can see an image of a printed sheet from a number of printers here: http://www.atarimagazines.com/v3n11/printer_guide.html

 

As for using a printer. They still make dot matrixes. These tend to have serial and parallel ports. Or at least a parallel port. Epson still has a FX line of printer. Epson, Okidata, Tally, etc all make something. Now, I do not know how easy it will be to interface to an Atari. If ATASCII to ASCII is needed, etc. But it is a starting point for something made brand new.

 

If enough information can be gathered to facilitate the production of new printheads (and perhaps how to replace other parts of the printer like the stepper motors), then why not offer a couple different font typefaces. Also, does the ink roller match any currently available for a calculator? Being able to ink the rollers is important, but no one has mentioned how that part has fared over time.

 

Anyways, I am new here. I'll try to keep any of my pipedreams quiet, but I am interested in learning how to use, modify, and customize the hardware and software. To that end, I am willing to see if what I get by EBay can be useful. Even if I only lay a ruler by the printhead and take a close-up picture with my DSLR. It is something more than what we have now.

 

 

That is totally so backwards as to how to proceed it is guaranteed to fail. Modern synthetics is where Atari went wrong in the first place. You need to use the highest grade Neoprene rubber (WW II age tech) which is impervious to oil based inks which is what the 1027 uses. What we need to save is the printed text so that a matching Font can be constructed using CAD. Molds of plaster are worthless, they need to be made of steel.

 

The biggest obstacle is someone who loves the 1027 and has the deep pockets for injection molds hasn't shown up yet. Costing thousands of dollars, Atari should have done it right to begin with and we wouldn't be having these discussions at all today. Including MEtalGuy66's point, he would probably be saying that they are so slow as to be next to worthless but nobody is really listening to his points anyway. Those of us who really used and loved the 1027 still do. Rabidly. Until daddy warbucks shows up I suspect it's RIP for the 1027, but I'm hanging onto mine just the same.

I think probably most of the hurdle so far has been figuring out how to "save" what we need to save. I know the 1027 I had the printhead is gone. So I don't have one to measure/mold/photograph. It does sound like you know quite a bit about the process.

 

I guess the first part would be identifying who has a printhead that while might still be very fragile, hasn't disintegrated to the point of where we could use it to measure/mold/photograph.

 

Then the next step is what do we do to get something that we can make the steel molds made?

 

For me, it's just a lack of knowledge in the process. I know someone who runs a machine shop and will see if I can call and ask him his opinion. He might not even have the right type of machines or shop but it's worth a try. Also, should we splinter this off to a new thread? One that people can ignore if they really don't want to hear about 1027's?

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Done. The head was in fine shape. Hopefully the pics prove useful. I'll be posting them to pbase or deviantart (or some sort of online gallery) and starting a new topic thread with a link to it once I get them online.

 

By eye and ruler (I'll have to acquire precision calipers to get a proper measurement) I'd say each disk was about 3mm wide and all 5 disks are about 17mm wide. I'd have to remove the printhead to get a proper diameter measure, but eyeballing the ruler slid into the printer, measuring top to bottom, I'd say it was about 30mm or more.

 

As the typeface is a standard 12 characters per inch (that is pica, right? or elite?), that should hopefully inform proper typesetting as well as analysis of my photos.

 

It came with a nearly empty bottle of oil for the printer, Launa 40 for 1027. Any ideas on a modern equivalent?

 

It came with a spare ink roller. Both look good. Hopefully, if need be, I can find something compatible still. Even if a little dissassembly and frakensteining is required to make it fit. At least, I can buy good quality calligraphic archival ink to ink it with.

 

When time permits, I'd like to refurbish it. Remove the yellowing from the case (or learn to mold and cast a new case), rebuild the printhead (and motor, gears, or whatever else I may need to do), and so forth just to be able to say I managed to rebuild something. I'll be learning as I go.

 

 

 

Well, I'm new to the Atari Age scene here. Got a 2600 and am now ebaying to get a 8bit computer and peripherals. Seems like a fun way to learn how to work with the innards of a computer and all.

 

I doubt the 1027 I won on ebay (it was dirt cheap, so I figured 'why not' just to say I have one) will be in any good condition. But however it arrives, I am willing to take photographic documentation of the print head. I can buy some precision calipers and make measurements at some point. Etc. No guarentees. The reason it is so cheap on ebay may have been the poor condition the print head is in.

 

As for a printing sample, while not all letters are represented, you can see an image of a printed sheet from a number of printers here: http://www.atarimagazines.com/v3n11/printer_guide.html

 

As for using a printer. They still make dot matrixes. These tend to have serial and parallel ports. Or at least a parallel port. Epson still has a FX line of printer. Epson, Okidata, Tally, etc all make something. Now, I do not know how easy it will be to interface to an Atari. If ATASCII to ASCII is needed, etc. But it is a starting point for something made brand new.

 

If enough information can be gathered to facilitate the production of new printheads (and perhaps how to replace other parts of the printer like the stepper motors), then why not offer a couple different font typefaces. Also, does the ink roller match any currently available for a calculator? Being able to ink the rollers is important, but no one has mentioned how that part has fared over time.

 

Anyways, I am new here. I'll try to keep any of my pipedreams quiet, but I am interested in learning how to use, modify, and customize the hardware and software. To that end, I am willing to see if what I get by EBay can be useful. Even if I only lay a ruler by the printhead and take a close-up picture with my DSLR. It is something more than what we have now.

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Dude, DECENT letter quality printer technologies existed long before the 1027 came out.. The printhead design in that thing was meant for use in a desktop adding machine's built in printer.. not something that you are gonna print entire pages of text (let alone hundreds of pages) on a regular basis.. In the role of a full-page 80 column letter quality printer (this means comparing it to other designs sold for the same supposed purpose at the same time, or previously) it most certainly is the biggest pile of piss poorly designed garbage that atari ever tried to pass off on the public..

 

You can't compare a "robotic rubber stamp" to a daisywheel or ball-type LQ printer..

 

So please clarify something for me, and I am not trying to be antagonistic I just really want to know. Were you an Atari user back in the early 80's? The reason I ask is that because for me and my family, the 1027 was the solution to our problem. Sure there may have been better letter quality equipment out there, but turnkey the 1027 was the solution. It fit our budget, and we didn't have to go out and buy a 850 interface, or one of the aftermarket Centronics interfaces. Just because better technology existed, doesn't mean it was within reach of everyone. I lived in the middle of nowhere technology wise, so you didn't just go down and purchase your items either. It had to be purchased by sending a check to the merchant, waiting for it to clear, and then waiting for the item to arrive. That could be a month down the road, and there wasn't any "testing" things out.

 

Regardless, I found the 1027, to be a pretty cool piece of equipment, and even if you don't feel that it was "not something that you are gonna print entire pages of text (let alone hundreds of pages) on a regular basis..", that is exactly what we did with it, and it worked every time. I printed school papers, and my parents both used it for work all the time. I am sure my little 1027 printed thousands of pages.

 

You are trying to compare apples to oranges here, and frankly it doesn't work. Why isn't there the same fervor for our Atari compatible only single side single density drives. I am sure Commodore had a much better design, hell I would venture to say if you asked a c64 person, ours "don't compare". God forbid the belts were made of some material that wasn't holding up today. Would be just bury all of the 810's and 1050's? Besides, decent floppy and magnetic storage existed long before the atari drives came out.

 

It's a piece of atari history, and just because you aren't fond of it doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to save it just like all these other piles of sh!t I have laying around my house with a fuji logo. It's obviously so bad you made it a point to single it out. Jaybird states "They may be "nifty," or they may have been useful to you in their own way when they were new. That doesn't necessarily mean they were good." Well, that applies to every old piece of computer equipment I own, and includes the standup video games I have in my gameroom. Really guys, I am willing to bet that if the print heads on the 1027 weren't dissolving at this day and age, we wouldn't even be having this conversation as people would still be using them. I know I would have no problem cranking out school papers and such for the kids, etc. All we are asking about is if someone can use today's technology to come up with new print heads. It's not like we are asking to have them converted to laser or print out the contents of the library of congress. We just want to save a piece of history which regardless of whether you deem it worthy or not, we do.

 

Some of you here are unbelievable, all he is saying is ONE piece of Warner Atari equipment was incredibly badly designed and because of that trying to get it to work again today is an exercise in futility. Jeez you'd think the guy had pissed on everything remotely Atari related.

 

As has been read in the thread radical steps for a new component design and production is required to ever get these things going again to actually be used as a printer....a process which may never happen.

 

Of course it doesn't need to work to look good on a retro setup, but by all means waste 10s of dollars trying to print one page on it until the print head destroys itself ;)

 

Look at it this way....no matter how much you love Ford cars...no 'Ford fan' is going to go out and buy a Pinto and use it....nope! Shit design is shit design...and by saying the Pinto is a piece of shit that should never have been made all people are saying is 'buy another old Ford, just don't waste money on getting a Pinto to work' not ALL Fords of the era are shit, take off the fanboy blinkers the rest of you.

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Just as a matter of update, I am slowly loading to deviant art.

 

I took a lot of pictures. I have 25 in the gallery now and that is not a full revolution. I took pics of the wheel twice, once from the front of the printer, and again from the rear. One variation should have sufficed, but I figure it doesn't hurt to have more. The current set is from the front of the printer.

 

I wish the pics were more consistant. The rechargable were running low and I didn't always wait long enough for the flash to recycle. But even with resh alkalines placed in, the lighting varied. However, if any picture is insufficent, just ask for a retake and I'll see what I can do.

 

As a matter of suggestion, while copying (or molding) the font exactly is pleasing from a purist point of view, any typeface is better than none at all. Be it Serif, Sans-Serif, Gothic, Italic, Uncial, or even a standard typewriter font. Having a durable replacement part may not be any real priority, but by photographing this part I am hoping to contribute in some small way to the community.

 

When I get good measuring equipment, I'll try removing the wheel completely. I'll then take more photos again of it outside of the printer, from all angles. I can also try learning how to cast molds. The question is, to whom do I give the molds to in order to best archive this part for posterity? Who has the resource to produce actual parts from the molds? Ideally, said parts could be offered for sale throught the usual Atari shops. But I know I'm not capable of such a venture.

 

I'll post in a new topic when I finish uploading. But for those who wants to look now:

 

http://sirsillyboy.deviantart.com/gallery/

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Now that youve pretty good photo documentation of the printhead assembly, why not see if you can put good fresh ink in the thing, and print a sample of it's entire character set on paper.. Then scan the results at like 1200dpi+ and upload that.. This would give a much truer representation of the shape of each letter/symbol in 2D...

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Look at it this way....no matter how much you love Ford cars...no 'Ford fan' is going to go out and buy a Pinto and use it....nope! Shit design is shit design...and by saying the Pinto is a piece of shit that should never have been made all people are saying is 'buy another old Ford, just don't waste money on getting a Pinto to work' not ALL Fords of the era are shit, take off the fanboy blinkers the rest of you.

Some Ford fans will buy a Pinto and use it. I knew a guy who put a small-block Ford V8 in a Pinto and did use it - as a "sleeper" to beat-up on other "hotrods" as it was extremely light, and its shared architecture with the Mustang II made V8 swap feasible, though not "easy." However, your criticism of the era stands.

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Now that youve pretty good photo documentation of the printhead assembly, why not see if you can put good fresh ink in the thing, and print a sample of it's entire character set on paper.. Then scan the results at like 1200dpi+ and upload that.. This would give a much truer representation of the shape of each letter/symbol in 2D...

 

I'd be surprised if it would print one page without destroying itself.:cool:

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Now that youve pretty good photo documentation of the printhead assembly, why not see if you can put good fresh ink in the thing, and print a sample of it's entire character set on paper.. Then scan the results at like 1200dpi+ and upload that.. This would give a much truer representation of the shape of each letter/symbol in 2D...

 

I do not want to risk wearing out the head unduly, even with only a line or two of text, if it is to be used to cast molds from. I don't see anyone else offering their printhead for such a purpose, so best to treat mine extra-conservatively.

 

As for a small sample of what it looks like on paper:

 

http://www.atarimagazines.com/v3n11/printer_guide.html

 

That is an old magazine article comparing printers, it includes type samples. Not quite high resolution nor the whole set. But for now, it's the only such sample I know of.

 

Honestly, though, I just got an 8-bit computer in the mail today from EBay. I'm going to be working on it, learning to work on it - you know, hack the video for a cleaner signal anad other fun projects - so I wouldn't be able to fire it up and print out just yet anyways.

 

But do let me know what would be more useful. Molds or precise measurements of all dimensions, even those of the characters (how tall, wide, and thick. The x size, ascenders and descenders, etc).

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http://www.atarimagazines.com/v3n11/printer_guide.html

 

That is an old magazine article comparing printers, it includes type samples.

 

That article is hilarious..

 

Hahah. holy crap.. 9 minutes to print one page, and even then, the vertical allignment sucks total ass worse than a worn out typewriter.. And then, its single-sheet feed.. so if you're printing more than one page, you better come back 9 minutes later and feed another sheet for it..

 

Thats about 10cps or less.. A good secretary with an electric typewriter can out-run a 1027 pretty easily... hahahah..

 

I think that if I needed letter-quality printing capability, back in those days, I'd pay the $699 for the REAL LQ printer, versus dropping $300 on that (1027) pile of useless junk..

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That article is hilarious..

 

Hahah. holy crap.. 9 minutes to print one page, and even then, the vertical allignment sucks total ass worse than a worn out typewriter.. And then, its single-sheet feed.. so if you're printing more than one page, you better come back 9 minutes later and feed another sheet for it..

 

Thats about 10cps or less.. A good secretary with an electric typewriter can out-run a 1027 pretty easily... hahahah..

 

I think that if I needed letter-quality printing capability, back in those days, I'd pay the $699 for the REAL LQ printer, versus dropping $300 on that (1027) pile of useless junk..

I quite agree. The people who are spending their time and energy on reviving the 1027 just need to let it go. Perhaps it filled a certain niche at the time it came out, for people who really absolutely positively could not afford anything better, but the world is much different now and the 1027 doesn't have a place in it anymore. (And for those who would respond, "well, you could say the same thing about Atari's computers, too, so why are you picking on the 1027 when you still like the computers?" ... no. The computers are still very enjoyable and useful today, but the 1027 in particular has been made completely obsolete, even if new print heads did exist for it.)

 

If you're feeling nostalgic for the 1027, clean it up all nice and pretty and put it on a shelf next to your bed, so it will be the first thing you see when you open your eyes in the morning. But if you really want good letter-quality printing from the 8-bit computers, I think you'd be better off figuring out how to connect modern USB-only printers without resorting to APE, or spending the $50 on a new XDM121 from B&C. Leave the 1027 in the past where it belongs.

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