New GUI for the Atari 8-bit

[tschak909]

This really is a grand undertaking, to bring as much of a modern operating platform, to a comparatively resource constrained machine. Given that I know well what goes into a modern operating system, my respect for this project has always been over the moon...At the end of the day, regardless of what happens after, this will be a solid artifact of what can be done when a software engineer wants something bad enough to traverse a most arduous terrain to get it.

 

-Thom

[_The Doctor__]

if the gui gets trampled so long as the program that caused it ends in some expected way or a ridiculously tiny reset routine the gui has installed some how survives the gui could just reload itself... an attempt at that sorta thing was already done for sdx.. a sort of 3 finger salute or combination of keys was used in that attempt and worked for a good many situations. mybios kind of allows for a sort of way around it as well.

 

I have faith the FJC will find a way to make it all happen one way or another... whatever little else that doesn't wanna co-operate will just have to be modified or patched... it wouldn't be the first time... look at stuff that was disk based and has moved to carts and can still save and vice versa....

 

I hope to see him keep pushing like he did with his other projects and put the nice touches on as he goes and rethinks it... I always loved how FJC re-coded and changed things... with the best possible solution.. discarding something he worked so hard on... for something better without trying to hold on to the pieces of that original hard fought for code. In the end the creation is shear genius!

[flashjazzcat]

That's probably how I'd do it. Prior to running the application, install a FAT FMS with a DOS 2.x API at $700, and point DOSVEC to code which basically restarts the GOS in the saved state it was in before the legacy application was started. Whatever doesn't want to cooperate with that can go to Hell.

[UNIXcoffee928]

...Whatever doesn't want to cooperate with that can go to Hell.

Well, at least, now you have the name for the error trapping subroutine, ha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sb46VD5CmA

[+mytek]

Can anyone provide a good description of how I would set-up a system with U1MB and a Side2 to run the latest and greatest version of this GUI? It very well might have been covered somewhere in this 148 page thread. But if it is, I missed it

 

Thanks in advance,

 

- Michael

Edited December 6, 2016 by mytekcontrols

[flashjazzcat]

SIDE2 isn't necessary if you have U1MB right now since there are as yet no file system drivers in the GOS. Basically you need to use UFLASH to reduce the size of the U1MB SDX slot from 256KB to 192KB, flash a 192KB SDX ROM, and flash the 128KB GOS ROM. The GOS option will be magically undimmed in the U1MB BIOS menu and you can choose to boot the machine straight into it.

 

192KB (and 320KB) SDX ROMs are apparently in the pipeline (I used to maintain and host many customised SDX ROMs on my own website until DLT decided to include the main object of my customisation efforts - the APT partition editor - in the official builds) but there are examples somewhere in the U1MB Alt BIOS thread. I test the GOS in Altirra or using an Ultimate SD cart so won't personally have much need for these things until the GOS is sufficiently useful to warrant regular flashing to an actual U1MB board.

[+mytek]

Hi Jon,

 

Any limitations in using the smaller SDX for the 'normal' user ?

 

My reason for wanting to have the beta version of your GUI in hardware is to be able to test mouse adapter solutions.

 

I'll give it try later today (thanks ),

 

- Michael

[flashjazzcat]

The only thing you lose by shrinking SDX is a bunch of text (MAN) files on CAR: which can be kept on a hard disk if needed. Modern SDX versions fit on a 128K cart.

[+mytek]

So here's what I did...

1. ran Uflash.xex
2. re-sized SDX to 192K
3. flashed SDX192KU.rom (from your website)
4. flashed GOSMF1MB.rom
5. exited Uflash
6. from U1MB setup 'Enabled' Graphical OS
7. pressed 'B' key to exit and save setup
8. BLACK SCREEN

Then I tried powering-down and then powering-up. Still the same result.

 

Next I tried disabling PBI with U1MB setup --- saved and exit --- same result.

 

With Graphical OS disabled all appears to be OK.

 

I am running this on an XEGS (real hardware) with U1MB XEGS OS slot enabled (also tried with 1200XL OS -- with same result). U1MB has latest bios.

 

Any ideas ?

 

- Michael

[flashjazzcat]

GOSMF1MB.ROM is for the 1Mbit maxflash cart. You want GOSU1MB.ROM or similar.

[+mytek]

GOSMF1MB.ROM is for the 1Mbit maxflash cart. You want GOSU1MB.ROM or similar.

 

I don't see that particular ROM in the zipped file I downloaded in either the Amiga or ST folders, so that's why I used that one. I downloaded from the GUI page on your website. Is there an alternative link that will get me the correct ROM ?

 

Thanks,

 

- Michael

 

Edit: I'm using an ST mouse.

Edited December 7, 2016 by mytekcontrols

[+mytek]

I found something, although I don't think it's up to date with what I saw on your latest demo video. Here's a LINK

 

Good news is that it works

 

- Michael

 

Edit: just figured out that launching things (Jotter & Profiler) presently only work via the Fuji drop-down, not from the icons on the desktop. So now this looks the same as what I saw in the video. Pretty friggin cool looking and FAST !!!

Edited December 7, 2016 by mytekcontrols

[+mytek]

OK the more I play around with this the cooler it gets. Any chance that we can see some file manipulation and/or a directory anytime soon ?

 

Wow This looks so much like the Mac when it first came out, maybe even better. Hard to believe this is running on essentially a stock un-accelerated 8-Bit machine.

 

- Michael

[flashjazzcat]

I sat down to resume work on this yesterday and after an eighteen month hiatus I'm having to reacquaint myself with my own code. Speaking of file handling, I'm working on modularising drivers right now and really wishing I'd designed the core OS first and added the GUI later on. But that's not the way things worked out (I rewrote the thing as a multitasking OS a couple of years ago). Hopefully I can focus on this instead of jumping from one project to another.

[TheNameOfTheGame]

I sat down to resume work on this yesterday...

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :rolling:

[+mytek]

I sat down to resume work on FINISH this yesterday.

[+mytek]

FJC I hope my last post didn't scare you or piss you off . As a software developer of sorts myself, I definitely understand that this stuff takes time, and lots of it. So I was just poking fun at you

 

Anyway after playing with this for a while now, I got to say I am absolutely loving the nearly 'Instant ON' aspect of having it flashed into the U1MB. From the moment I flip the power switch, it only takes 5 seconds to see the desktop and be ready to mouse. Only modern day tablets can come close to matching that, and only when they are woken up from sleep. And its been so long since I turned on an original MAC, that I don't recall how long it took to get to it's desktop. But I seriously doubt if it was any quicker. Also with a good mouse, the cursor literally flies off the screen when moved quickly --- very impressive !!!

 

As I mentioned earlier, I'm using your GUI to test out a new mouse adapter I'm developing, so it's especially great that I can quickly power up in a GOS environment and instantly test the mouse. BTW, any chance of seeing some right button action in an upcoming rev?

 

That's all for now. Keep up the good work

 

- Michael

[flashjazzcat]

No offence taken. The notion of finishing was too ludicrous to take seriously.

 

I was leaving right button functionality until we have some reason to have context menus, but they could be perfunctorily added. Since the GUI works, I'm focusing exclusively on the kernel and drivers for now. This process involves creating a linked list of external symbols which the relocator uses to fix up global equates when loading drivers and applications.

 

Unfortunately, but perhaps inevitably, the approach has been: a) Write several iterations of GUI to see if it can work fast enough, b) Write kernel/scheduler to see if that can work fast enough, and now c) go back and write operating system.

Edited December 11, 2016 by flashjazzcat

[+mytek]

Unfortunately, but perhaps inevitably, the approach has been: a) Write several iterations of GUI to see if it can work fast enough, b) Write kernel/scheduler to see if that can work fast enough, and now c) go back and write operating system.

 

This is pretty much the same way I approach my embedded system firmware development. Except first on my list is usually creating or importing some code that allows me to activate some kind of feedback from the MCU. In the case of my keyboard adapter, the first thing I did was to write the 'Pokey Key Send Routine'. Then using that, I was able to send stuff that would appear on screen in order to test break points in the code, or to tell me the value of a register.

 

So hopefully I'm not reiterating something that was already discussed in this topic... will this GUI always be able to be ROM resident in the U1MB, or is it destined to be only run from a larger Flash Cart in the future? Personally I favor the idea of having the GOS built-in, and having extensions and apps coming in from external sources (Flash Cart, HDD, ect.). Understandably because of the complexity and limited flash memory, I could see there being a problem with keeping it on board the U1MB. But at least in it's current incarnation it is able to utilize twice the ROM then what was available on the first MAC. Although I believe much of the desktop on that MAC was still pulled in from disk.

 

- Michael

Edited December 11, 2016 by mytekcontrols

[a8isa1]

Posted by flashjazzcat on Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:42 PM in Atari 8-Bit Computers

a8isa1, on 13 Feb 2015 - 2:38 PM, said:

Will there be a mouse sensitivity adjustment at some point?

My converted Logitech Bus Mouse moves the cursor from edge to edge with only 0.9 inch (2.29 cm) of travel.

Good question. I built in acceleration in the wake of complaints about erratic pointer behaviour (owing to missed bits when the mouse was moved quickly). Certainly that needs to be adjustable, though.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Hi Jon, I saw the recent activity here and got the bug to fire up your GUI. Did anything change between the above date and now? Travel left margin to right margin is actually 1.5 cm using my converted Logitech Bus Mouse (circa 1989). I used ROM image from your website.

[flashjazzcat]

I saw the recent activity here and got the bug to fire up your GUI. Did anything change between the above date and now? Travel left margin to right margin is actually 1.5 cm using my converted Logitech Bus Mouse (circa 1989). I used ROM image from your website.

That's a sensitive mouse. I didn't build in any sensitivity (nor acceleration) adjustment yet. There doesn't seem much point when there are so many other things to take care of first. At least adjustable sensitivity should be easy to implement.

[a8isa1]

That's a sensitive mouse. I didn't build in any sensitivity (nor acceleration) adjustment yet. There doesn't seem much point when there are so many other things to take care of first. At least adjustable sensitivity should be easy to implement.

Seems so.

 

I pretty much only use the mouse for Missile Command+. There the motion is probably 5 cm, left margin to right. That's OK but not great sensitivity for that particular game.

[flashjazzcat]

Perhaps simply disabling the acceleration for that mouse (once that's possible without changing a line of code in the driver) will fix that mouse on its own.

[+mytek]

That's a sensitive mouse. I didn't build in any sensitivity (nor acceleration) adjustment yet. There doesn't seem much point when there are so many other things to take care of first. At least adjustable sensitivity should be easy to implement.

 

I wouldn't worry about it. As you say there's probably a lot more important things left for you to do, and obviously this can be addressed at any time. And as I've mentioned in various places, your mouse implementation is quite excellent

 

- Michael

[flashjazzcat]

Yeah. It's funny we should talk about drivers, since that's what I'm churning out at the moment: mouse, display, keyboard, SIO, file system, etc. The most complex part of the system aside from the kernel and the window manager. It's slow and steady progress, but the pay-off is pretty much immediate, as all the hardware/device specific stuff becomes neatly organised and prevents the whole thing from becoming unmanagably complex.