My prediction for where collecting will be in 2020

[jahfish]

Emulation , and changing TV standards will eventually kill off old consoles. After all in a few years TV's wont have analogue RF inputs, so they won't be able to tune the really old consoles in.

 

well, modded consoles are all around now, and so are small converters ... and s-vhs isn't gonna die in the next 10-20 years ...

[tz101]

Emulation , and changing TV standards will eventually kill off old consoles. After all in a few years TV's wont have analogue RF inputs, so they won't be able to tune the really old consoles in.

 

well, modded consoles are all around now, and so are small converters ... and s-vhs isn't gonna die in the next 10-20 years ...

 

Except that anything that uses a light gun requires an SDTV CRT set. Light guns do not work on LCD and plasma sets, so forget about Duck Hunt and Hogan's Alley.

[VectorGamer]

Emulation , and changing TV standards will eventually kill off old consoles. After all in a few years TV's wont have analogue RF inputs, so they won't be able to tune the really old consoles in.

Good point, I just hope that does'nt really happen though..Considering (IMO) emulation sucks.

 

Emulation does suck.

 

But, I don't see TV standards killing off the old consoles - ever. As long as you'll be able to plug into a TV in 2020, someone will have a converter/adapter of some sort for the legacy equipment.

[cybercylon]

IMO, FF7 was the mass produced critical success that ET should have been. Both games are super common, however, one is worth pennies while the other is gold. IMO, they are both decent games.

I almost automatically discount FF7 as a rare game, but it certainly is valuable. BTW, they go for between $40 and $60 around here, and often times they are in stock.

 

Perhaps Kurisu was referring to a sealed copy of FF7; they go for about $60-$70 here opened. However, I see them in just about any store that sells classic games. Same goes for Xenogears. Perfect example of supply being plentiful, but consumer demand allows places to mark them up. How much will these games be worth in 20 years? Hard to say if the demand will be the same. I used to collect Star Trek cards (STNG era, skybox). Some of the rare hollos of the characters I found went for $50-$100 back in the day the series was hot any everyone and their grandmother wanted them. Today? Maybe $3-$4 at most. There is no demand and no one wants them anymore.

[carmel_andrews]

To those that say emulation sucks

 

You take away emulation (and the market it serves) you take out a significant portion of those active in classic and retro gaming and computing

 

remembering that atari only sold so many A8's/A ST's etc, 26/52 and 7800's, lynx, Jaggies etc which means that unless new compatible hardware comes to the fore (like a flashback 3 etc, which in all intense and purposes is a hardware emulator) the market will not grow

 

And since you don't like emulation/emulators and what they represent it means you have to take out those that have things like gp2x, dingoo, tv game joystick things as well as flashbacks and those knock off asian console and handheld jobbies....again taking another slice out of the classic and retro gaming and computing market

 

Lets face facts shall we, we need the emulation market (both h/w and s/w forms), it brings new people in to experience the very systems that you people and i grew up with, take away emulation and you bring no new people into the market, also something you seem you have overlooked, you take away emulation, you take away a significant portion of software development for the very systems we care about, since the growth of emulators has meant an increased amount of software development for the very platforms that are emulated

 

And as we know, unless your'e prepared to sink in several 00,000 pounds/dollars/euro;s etc into reintroducing these hardware platforms...no one in their right mind is going to want to reintroduce these hardware platforms, after all you will only be selling to the same 40-50 people each time (remembering that you don't want emulation/emulators and the market that represents)...thats the facts of the matter

[Armonigann]

To those that say emulation sucks

 

You take away emulation (and the market it serves) you take out a significant portion of those active in classic and retro gaming and computing

 

remembering that atari only sold so many A8's/A ST's etc, 26/52 and 7800's, lynx, Jaggies etc which means that unless new compatible hardware comes to the fore (like a flashback 3 etc, which in all intense and purposes is a hardware emulator) the market will not grow

 

And since you don't like emulation/emulators and what they represent it means you have to take out those that have things like gp2x, dingoo, tv game joystick things as well as flashbacks and those knock off asian console and handheld jobbies....again taking another slice out of the classic and retro gaming and computing market

 

Lets face facts shall we, we need the emulation market (both h/w and s/w forms), it brings new people in to experience the very systems that you people and i grew up with, take away emulation and you bring no new people into the market, also something you seem you have overlooked, you take away emulation, you take away a significant portion of software development for the very systems we care about, since the growth of emulators has meant an increased amount of software development for the very platforms that are emulated

 

And as we know, unless your'e prepared to sink in several 00,000 pounds/dollars/euro;s etc into reintroducing these hardware platforms...no one in their right mind is going to want to reintroduce these hardware platforms, after all you will only be selling to the same 40-50 people each time (remembering that you don't want emulation/emulators and the market that represents)...thats the facts of the matter

Yes, indeed everything you've stated obviously is very well correct and well put. As I am a fan of Flashbacks, plug ins, etc, etc. Emulators can be a good thing if not great for purposes of testing games before purchases and many other purposes we are ALL aware of. I just can't help but to think what Crazyace above has mentioned above that could very well be true if technology/emulation advances past what we all have once been accustomed to. Yeah, Im sure there will be converters and so forth for consoles for gameplay and for sure there will be emulators for our so-called convenience but as technology progresses the younger group will feel "what the hell do we need actual consoles for if you can just simply pull up your emu on your CPU" not knowing or even realizing that it's not even close to what playing the actual hardware/software is like. Therefore consoles of our days simply could become obsolete and die off (maybe not by 2020 but probably not too soon afterwards)

In conclusion, Yes we do obviously do need emulation in order to progress in technology and to expand what we have already succeeded, but emulators/emulation sucks (IMO) when it comes to such use strictly instead of consoles to be a stable substitute for gamers in the future as that has already been done.

[R.Cade]

As others mentioned, it cycles with the times. When I started finding 2600 and INTV carts in the 90's they were everywhere for $.50 to $1 each and the systems were a few dollars. Now they are *gone*. I never see them anywhere.

 

Now, the PS1 consoles and games are everywhere and only a few dollars. I expect they will be gone in 10 years also and worth a little more.

 

Heck, I even find XBOX systems for less than $10 now at Goodwill. (untested, but usually fixable)

[RevEng]

Emulation does suck.

 

But, I don't see TV standards killing off the old consoles - ever. As long as you'll be able to plug into a TV in 2020, someone will have a converter/adapter of some sort for the legacy equipment.

I'm not as sure of that. The media companies are working hard to control what goes into your TV. HDMI with HDCP is the thin edge of the wedge.

 

When the majority of modern video devices are HDMI compliant, you'll see a push to close the analog hole through legislation.

 

IMO It's not a question of "if", it's just a matter of when.

[Cebus Capucinis]

I think the real question is how many of you cheapskates will pay for an AtariAge subscription by 2020.

[+Random Terrain]

I think the real question is how many of you cheapskates will pay for an AtariAge subscription by 2020.

Change the date to 2525 and we'll see.

[fiddlepaddle]

Change the date to 2525 and we'll see.

If man is still alive, If woman can survive...<<click me>>

[Crazyace]

Actually I find that I haven't used my Saturn or Dreamcast for quite a long time now. Most of the games I'd really like to play ( enough to set up the machines ) are light gun games, and both my main TV - and the TV that my kids use in their room, are LCD's which dont work with light guns

All of the old CRT monitors I used to use for gaming have gone, and with them the era of gun games ( Point Blank, Time Crisis, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead - all just gathering dust now )

[VectorGamer]

To those that say emulation sucks

 

You take away emulation (and the market it serves) you take out a significant portion of those active in classic and retro gaming and computing

 

 

 

I was speaking strictly from the gaming experience. When compared to playing a cart on the 2600, emulation does suck...

[Keatah]

Ultimately, unless repro hardware is brought into the equation, Emulation will be the only thing to survive multiple generations. People will die, consoles will break, stuff gets thrown out(when people die), plastics soften warp and disintegrate.

 

IMHO we're not really doing anything to cultivate an interest in the younger generation, not that they can care in the first place.

[carmel_andrews]

To those that say emulation sucks

 

You take away emulation (and the market it serves) you take out a significant portion of those active in classic and retro gaming and computing

 

 

 

I was speaking strictly from the gaming experience. When compared to playing a cart on the 2600, emulation does suck...

 

 

 

 

 

I guess you haven't tried some of the more recent versions of Stella, which i am lead to understand now features CRT emulation and unless i am missunderstanding the concept of CRT emulation that basically means that stella now replicates playing a 2600 on an old school television, instead of just using a pc/mac screen as a display device and if you couple that with stella working with stellaadapter or curts cx40 usb jobbie (or similar pc-atari joystick adapter device), that to most people should be as good as playing on a pucka vcs hooked up to a old school telly (bearing in mind that old school tellies are very few and far between and that hooking up a 2600 to a plasma or lcd jobbie, is in my view not the same experience, somewhat like your view of emulation)

[Buyatari]

I think original systems will increase in value more than people expect. But loose carts will be like coverless comic books and even the rare hard to find titles will have limited value.

 

The main problem is that Atari lacks licenses that carry on to future generations. There is no 1st appearance of Batman amoung the common Atari games because these characters and games haven't survived generation after generation. They did have Mario arcade which could be a sleeper but I think the Mario legacy really begins with Super Mario Bros on NES.

[Tursi]

I guess you haven't tried some of the more recent versions of Stella, which i am lead to understand now features CRT emulation and unless i am missunderstanding the concept of CRT emulation that basically means that stella now replicates playing a 2600 on an old school television

 

I wasn't overly impressed by this effect myself... if you put it beside a real TV, it doesn't look like running the 2600 on an old TV. (On the other hand, no two old TVs were exactly alike, so my comparison may be moot!) It implements the concepts (blurring, ghosting, etc) but did so, from the articles I read, without actually having a reference handy. Someone from the team can correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

It's not really a new idea. DGen (Genesis/Mega Drive) had a "Crap TV" mode that was pretty decent back in '99. http://tamentis.com/projects/dgen/

 

Blargg's NTSC libraries also do a pretty decent job of emulating the artifacts introduced by NTSC, and are in a number of emulators: http://www.fly.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html

 

And of course MAME has had various monitor emulations in it for ages now...

 

For the most part, though, these have all seemed more curiosities to me than nostalgia.. sometimes they trigger a little bit of "oh, that looks right!", but then I find I'd rather play in the sharper, unfiltered mode.

 

Anyway, I guess that's a sidetrack!

[Rik]

Yeah,Atari as we know it will still be around in 2020,but in a small magnitude in the Atari community,as the rest of the world couldn't give a rats ass really.Will kids be looking at a 2600 in 2070?at some museum somewhere in a display case?not likely,unless it was a dinosaur or something,where there is GLOBAL appeal to keep it alive.Eventually,it will be forgotten like anything else.I could be wrong though,who knows

[Keatah]

To those that say emulation sucks

 

You take away emulation (and the market it serves) you take out a significant portion of those active in classic and retro gaming and computing

 

 

 

I was speaking strictly from the gaming experience. When compared to playing a cart on the 2600, emulation does suck...

 

Emulation does not suck. It is timeless. Since retrogaming and classic atari stuff is too weak to stand on its own and have new hardware made to run it. Anybody do a repro VCS yet and make it available at the local toys'R'us? No! Don't mention those keyfob things or built-in-game-joysticks. Those cannot run each and every game like stella. Emulation, by borrowing (and transposing upon) and existing base of hardware (supported by mega-sized corporations) will always be around. That suit in the office looking at porn and pumping powerpoint docs is going to keep alive the hardware platform that will allow you to play your atari games 50 years from now, or even a hundred! And emulation will enable that! And as that hardware evolves, so will the emulation programs and ways to run them.

 

I long ago threw all my atari stuff in garbage or sold it off or gave it away. I can bring one little briefcase with my laptop system anywhere I go and enjoy the classics. I can bring the joys of CODEBREAKER, or MISSLE COMMAND, or SLOT RACERS, or DEMON ATTACK to thousands of folks wherever I go. And I can tell them WHERE and HOW to get a setup like I got.

 

These are the instructions I give out:

 

1- Go buy a computer.

2- Go buy some sort of internet connection.

3- Come to this website to read and learn more.

4- Get an emulator.

5- Get the roms.

6- Set everything up.

 

These instructions are far far FAR more doable than then going to ebay and explaining what to get. Bidding. waiting around for fedex to bring boxes of fleabag infested dusty consoles that probably are on their last legs. Most of these ebay things come from dander filled divorcee apartment dwellers that have obsessive smoking habits. And signing up and everything is a hassle and everything..(!) Most common-sense-type folks do indeed avoid ebay. And not to mention hooking everything up to a modern-day tv set, that takes even more tech knowhow. And who wants their home filled with smelly electronics that are not stylish and just don't fit the 'decor art'd'objet??

 

So you see, Everybody knows how to go to best buy and have the shit-faced kids there sell them a slaphappy shiney new computer, and have the drunkard from comcast cable come out and fix-em-up the internet. Everybody knows bill gates and windows and mouse and keyboard, and everybody knows the internet. So to have to force somebody to play around with a real console is just plain absurd!

 

To get the modern generation interested in classic gaming, you have to reach them through a modern platform. Either a pc or ecksbawcks (X-BOX) will do nicely.

 

Emulation is a step above the real thing, it is more versatile, more reliable. It is available to everyone. And an emulation collection can be transfered to friends and buddies with a few mouseclicks (and a big-ass hard disk the pimple-infested kid from bestbuy sold you). No bug-laden dusty cardboard boxes required!

[Kurisu]

Ultimately, unless repro hardware is brought into the equation, Emulation will be the only thing to survive multiple generations. People will die, consoles will break, stuff gets thrown out(when people die), plastics soften warp and disintegrate.

 

IMHO we're not really doing anything to cultivate an interest in the younger generation, not that they can care in the first place.

 

You know, this was all the topic of a thread I started a while back: "How long do you think a machine will last?" I think was the title.

 

Also, talking about people and their interest, would those of you who are 40 or so now think that, after the NES came around, kids being born at that time would go back to these old machines and take interest? I sure as heck did, and from what I see here, I am not the only person born post-crash to do so.

 

I'm not saying there will be a massive resurgence, but what I am saying is, demand for the collecting as a whole will always stay around, as will all the demand to keep up with these old machines.

 

Now, speaking in general, that "Analog Hole" people speak of, odds are the generation born in the 2000's are the ones who will finally let that be plugged up: they are the ones now who's firs systems are PS3's and 360's, so they are the ones who most likely will not look back to pre-HD games untill it is too late. Until that time, I am sure my generation, and more, will be working around that problem as best we can, until finally, the universe just moves on.

 

Of course, more than likely, some company at some point will get smart and produce a game-monitor type TV that has all kinds of inputs, and is designed around the various standard reslutions of the gaming eras, and works with all these old systems (would have Coax inputs, direct ones no less, so you could plug SEVERAL 2600's and the like into the back, and use a swapping feature to play between them). It would keep standard definition a priority for what basically amounts to all the 20th century hardware any collector would have. Add in enough composite inputs and the like for all kinds of other systems, and SOMEHOW create some mode that COULD allow classic light guns to work, and there we go.

 

something crazy like that has been a dream of mine for a while now, and there has to be SOMEONE out there who is in a position and would care enough to do this.

[Keatah]

The reason why lightguns don't work on modern tv's is because the image is not scanned onto the display. It is frozen and manipulated in a framebuffer. All the critical timing of a moving electron beam is lost and mashed beyond recognition. And oled or plasma display could easily be programmed to work with a lightgun, less likely for an lcd set.

 

A set with multiple inputs and lightgun mode is doable, sure, but at what cost? No big name mfg is going to make all these features available to such a limited audience!

[Skylark68]

I had a dream about this once (or a thought - it's been awhile ago). My child's child's child brings an Atari with the Combat cartridge onto Antiques Roadshow and asks about the history of it and how it worked. The expert on vintage electronics brings out an old 19" TV and hooks it up. The young man stares amazingly at the screen while the expert talks about how it was the rage in the early 1980s and about the crash and the eventual rebirth of home video gaming with the NES, etc. The kid asks "well, how much is it worth?" - The expert says, "Well, in this condition with minor scratches and no box it's worth about $50. If it was a heavy sixer with the box, maybe $150 to $200"

 

haha

 

I think the Atari will be just like all vintage toys/electronics made since the 1950's. It'll be prized by a select few but just some old thing gathering dust for most people. The generation that grew up with it new will be gone or very old and the younger generation may not even have the facilities to play it depending on where TV evolution goes.

[VectorGamer]

To those that say emulation sucks

 

You take away emulation (and the market it serves) you take out a significant portion of those active in classic and retro gaming and computing

 

 

 

I was speaking strictly from the gaming experience. When compared to playing a cart on the 2600, emulation does suck...

 

Emulation does not suck. It is timeless.

 

I'm not getting why anyone, like me, who were playing a VCS in the late 70s/early 80s would prefer to play these games on a laptop or desktop computer instead of playing it on the real hardware. Forget about money on carts, storage and etc...does emulation emulate the nostalgic gaming experience? I don't think so...but to each their own. This is a forum of public opinion, afterall. But, if you prefer an emulated experience over the VCS experience, I'm interested to know why...

[Mirage]

There is a place for each. I prefer the real deal (or at least the real deal but with a Harmony etc for the convenience). The sounds and visual is not right in any form of emulation compared to the real thing. Plus, as has been discussed at length in many other threads, it's also just about the authentic experience of sitting down with the real hardware. It's really as simple as that.

 

But that said (yet again), I do agree that more likely than not, future generations will increasingly not care about the real thing, and emulation will become what most people do for all the reasons that have been repeated ad infinitum. The consoles etc will always have some value, but the peak of value is always when the original hardware's generation hits the age of nostalgia. After that, the values drop. Looking at nearly any collectible market will show you that. It's similar with antiques (furniture, decor, etc) and automobiles as well, for the exact same reasons. No one should be surprised by this. Your Atari collection is not going to make you rich, and you're not going to retire on it. One particular collector might, but no one else will!

 

And for that reason, emulation is important to continue the legacy and experience for those who do care. It will eventually be hard to find a working Atari or whatever... emulation is the answer for those future generations. I appreciate all the hard work of the emulator programmers, as the future esteem of our beloved consoles is largely in their hands.

[shadow460]

Emulation , and changing TV standards will eventually kill off old consoles. After all in a few years TV's wont have analogue RF inputs, so they won't be able to tune the really old consoles in.

 

Video mods will solve this. Also, there will still be old TVs around, also there will be RF demodulators and whatnot for years to come.