My prediction for where collecting will be in 2020

[Cebus Capucinis]

Change the date to 2525 and we'll see.

If man is still alive, If woman can survive...<<click me>>

 

GAH! You get a +1 for thinking of that before I did! I was just about to post that!

[jahfish]

emulation? i'm just saying one word .... KABBBOOOOOOM!

[+Random Terrain]

Change the date to 2525 and we'll see.

If man is still alive, If woman can survive...<<click me>>

GAH! You get a +1 for thinking of that before I did! I was just about to post that!

You both passed the test. Your reward is a bullet through the eye because that's the only way you'll get that song out of your heads.

[Herbarius]

Change the date to 2525 and we'll see.

If man is still alive, If woman can survive...<<click me>>

GAH! You get a +1 for thinking of that before I did! I was just about to post that!

You both passed the test. Your reward is a bullet through the eye because that's the only way you'll get that song out of your heads.

 

Would you believe it? We actually discussed that song back in school, it must have been in English (as foreign language) class...

[Keatah]

Yes, indeed everything you've stated obviously is very well correct and well put. As I am a fan of Flashbacks, plug ins, etc, etc. Emulators can be a good thing if not great for purposes of testing games before purchases and many other purposes we are ALL aware of. I just can't help but to think what Crazyace above has mentioned above that could very well be true if technology/emulation advances past what we all have once been accustomed to. Yeah, Im sure there will be converters and so forth for consoles for gameplay and for sure there will be emulators for our so-called convenience but as technology progresses the younger group will feel "what the hell do we need actual consoles for if you can just simply pull up your emu on your CPU" not knowing or even realizing that it's not even close to what playing the actual hardware/software is like. Therefore consoles of our days simply could become obsolete and die off (maybe not by 2020 but probably not too soon afterwards)

In conclusion, Yes we do obviously do need emulation in order to progress in technology and to expand what we have already succeeded, but emulators/emulation sucks (IMO) when it comes to such use strictly instead of consoles to be a stable substitute for gamers in the future as that has already been done.

 

Emulation *IS* the only stable platform for the future. As hardware fails games will no longer be playable. As for consistency and representing the original design as best as possible, once you've got cycle-exact emu then you're done and don't need to make any further changes. Your code is then stable and reference.

[Keatah]

emulation? i'm just saying one word .... KABBBOOOOOOM!

 

Agreed, that was one of the first games I played on the activision windows 3.1 emulator! A sight to behold! 2600 vcs games on a pc!

[Mirage]

Kaboom is one of the games I will not play on an emulator (again). It's so perfectly suited to the original hardware, it's nearly a crime to play it on anything but a real 2600 (and I don't mean on any other console either).

[Keatah]

Kaboom is one of the games I will not play on an emulator (again). It's so perfectly suited to the original hardware, it's nearly a crime to play it on anything but a real 2600 (and I don't mean on any other console either).

 

What is so different?

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

Kaboom is one of the games I will not play on an emulator (again). It's so perfectly suited to the original hardware, it's nearly a crime to play it on anything but a real 2600 (and I don't mean on any other console either).

 

What is so different?

 

The hardware..............

[homerwannabee]

Kaboom is one of the games I will not play on an emulator (again). It's so perfectly suited to the original hardware, it's nearly a crime to play it on anything but a real 2600 (and I don't mean on any other console either).

 

What is so different?

 

The hardware..............

Bullseye! It's one thing to play joystick games on the computer, but Kaboom is a paddle game so the mechanics are going to be all wrong.

[+Random Terrain]

If we get USB paddles in 2010, emulated Kaboom won't be so bad.

[Mirage]

It's not only about the paddles, though that's obviously a large part. It's also the fact that it's such a fast game that you need to be 100% in sync due to the close link between the player and the video display that is only possible with the original hardware (on a CRT TV). That is critical for extreme playing of Kaboom. It's possible to enjoy it in emulation, sure. But I can tell a difference in the timing when playing the real thing. The best way I can describe it is sort of the difference between driving a sports car with no power steering or brakes and a manual transmission vs. a sports car with power steering/brakes and automatic transmission. Of course, it's more subtle than that, but it's a very real thing as the game gets faster and faster. This isn't an emulation problem, it's the way the VCS displays and processes vs. the way emulation does it out of necessity.

 

I am not against emulation. It's just that the reality must be faced that it is a different animal. Fine sometimes, not fine other times, and in some ways superior as well. I do both and I'm proud to say it. It's just that sometimes I swear people make this "emulation rules, we don't need the real hardware at all" argument when they haven't actually played on the real hardware for the system they're talking about. Honestly, that really bugs me.

[jahfish]

I am not against emulation. It's just that the reality must be faced that it is a different animal. Fine sometimes, not fine other times, and in some ways superior as well. I do both and I'm proud to say it.

 

emulation is fine if u plan on making less than 2000 points

Edited December 31, 2009 by jahfish

[Mirage]

I am not against emulation. It's just that the reality must be faced that it is a different animal. Fine sometimes, not fine other times, and in some ways superior as well. I do both and I'm proud to say it.

 

emulation is fine if u plan on making less than 2000 points

 

Exactly

[homerwannabee]

But loose carts will be like coverless comic books and even the rare hard to find titles will have limited value.

 

 

I would have to disagree with this one. And for one main reason. Most comics have a cover. I personally see loose video games more like comics pre-1966, when most people were still not collecting. Typically these comics tend to be about VG. Since most Atari 2600 games do not have anything to go with them, than I would say a loose cart with a nice fully intact label equals VG. In fact here is how I see how Video Games will equate to comics.

 

Non working game with bad label=Coverless thrashed comic.

 

Working game with no label= Comic in poor condition.

Working game with pieces missing on label= comic in fair condition

Working game with full label but with writing or major wear= comic in good condition

Working game with full label with average wear, with no writing= comic Very Good condition

Working game with mint condition label = comic in Fine minus condition about 5.0

Working game with mint condition label, and instruction manual=comic in fine condition about 6.0

Working gamewith mint condition label, and mint condition instruction= comic in Fine plus condition about 7.0

Working game with label, instruction, and smashed box = comic in Very Fine condition about 8.0

Working game CIB, and OK condition box = Comic in Very Fine + condition about 8.5

Working game CIB, in very nice condition with minor wear= Comic in Very Fine/Near Mint condition, about 9.0

Working game CIB, in mint condition all the way around= Comic in Near Mint -, about 9.2

Game sealed but with smushed box = comic in near mint condition. about 9.4

Game sealed in non smushed box, but with average wear.= Comic in Mint- about 9.6

Game Sealed in non smushed box, with very minor wear to the seal=Comic in Mint condition, about 9.8

Game sealed in almost perfect condition except for on small scratch less than a half inch= Comic in Mint+ condition, about 9.9

Game sealed in absolute perfect condition with no holes, no scratches, nothing, = Comic in Gem Mint conditioon, a 10.0 on the scale.

[Cebus Capucinis]

Sheesh, Homer, and I thought I was obsessive when I did a business simulation model on an $800 Atari auction!

 

You're the man. Stay classy, Homer, stay classy.

[maximebeauvais]

As for myshelf I will continue to collect atari 2600 and intellivision game. I have no plan to sell my collection in the near future.....but you never know what could happen.

 

In 10 years, I think that there will be the same number of people collecting atari 2600.....not more people not less people. Most of the people that collect atari 2600 it's because they have played with this system when they were young. So that mean that at this moment they are probably around 35 year old. I don't think that my son which is 10 year old will start collecting atari 2600 LOL

 

Price: pacman will still be 1$ and atlantis II will still be a 1K+ cart. don't forget that in 10 years I will probably make more money that today so I will be getting rare game that I could not afford at this moment.

 

However in in year 2030/2040 that will be an other story....only geek will collect atari 2600 !!!!

[zylon]

As long as an ancient device known as a VCR exists, you'll be able to tune in Atari without mods. Emulators are great for "window shopping" but all the ones I've tried play spotty at best. Not as smooth or at the right speeds. They are good at introducing people to the classics. Common tapes around here are now any 3 for $10. The old consoles will survive but I think the old computers won't fare as well.

As long as they don't take my Kodachrome away!

[ddaniels]

Here's a thought. Look how CD players replaced record players years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong but now you can buy a new record player that utilizes USB connectivity. Who saw that coming? When USB technology first came out who would of thought that it would be applied to a record player? Look at how you can hook up real atari 2600 controllers via USB. My point is that maybe in ten years someone re-releases the Atari 2600 hardware with better video connectivity (Hdmi). I'm not referring to that current Atari system that has x amount of built in games but I'm talking about the actual hardware re-released.

 

Another thing I see happening in the future is more flash carts for the various systems hitting the market. For example, I never purchased a Cuttle Cart years back and when those stopped selling the prices went sky high. I thought I'd never have the ability to play all of the games on an Atari 2600 for a reasonable price until now (thanks Batari for the Harmony cart).

 

I could also see that as us gamers in their 30 and 40's grow older the desire for the younger generation to have an Atari 2600 will probably go down. Will my son who is now six and playing Wii/Xbox360 want much to do with an Atari 2600 ten years from now? I doubt it.

[Keatah]

 

I could also see that as us gamers in their 30 and 40's grow older the desire for the younger generation to have an Atari 2600 will probably go down. Will my son who is now six and playing Wii/Xbox360 want much to do with an Atari 2600 ten years from now? I doubt it.

 

 

That is why atari 2600 stuff will never really appreciate. In fact, it will get much cheaper, sooner or later you'll find harmony carts and cuttles in the dumpster at good will!

 

Emulation will carry the banner, if there is a crowd to view it..

[Mirage]

If there is no one to appreciate the original hardware (assuming it's still working) then there will be no one to appreciate emulation either. Still, yes, absolutely, emulation will play an increasingly larger role as time goes on for new people/generations having an interest in the videogame or computer history. I do agree that the value on all this stuff is going to go down down down down... this isn't even close to rock bottom.

 

But, that's okay with me. The fun of this has nothing at all to do with the value, and anyone investing $ into this stuff thinking they're going to become rich when it all appreciates "one day" is running a fool's errand. Assuming I still care in 20 years (I think I will), I will just be able to snap up more of this stuff cheap, if I want it. But I'm going more the routes of multicarts etc lately to save space and $, so I doubt I'll want much more stuff than I already have now.

[TI99Kitty]

Warning! I wrote a book again! ^_~

 

IMHO we're not really doing anything to cultivate an interest in the younger generation, not that they can care in the first place.

 

Speak for yourself. I gave my 14 year old son a TI-99/4A for Christmas (basically the same setup I had when I was his age), and he was thrilled to get it. He was almost as thrilled when I gave him my PSOne. And he tends to eye my collection of old consoles enviously (and enjoys playing games on them).

 

There is a place for each. I prefer the real deal (or at least the real deal but with a Harmony etc for the convenience). The sounds and visual is not right in any form of emulation compared to the real thing. Plus, as has been discussed at length in many other threads, it's also just about the authentic experience of sitting down with the real hardware. It's really as simple as that.

 

But that said (yet again), I do agree that more likely than not, future generations will increasingly not care about the real thing, and emulation will become what most people do for all the reasons that have been repeated ad infinitum. The consoles etc will always have some value, but the peak of value is always when the original hardware's generation hits the age of nostalgia. After that, the values drop. Looking at nearly any collectible market will show you that. It's similar with antiques (furniture, decor, etc) and automobiles as well, for the exact same reasons. No one should be surprised by this. Your Atari collection is not going to make you rich, and you're not going to retire on it. One particular collector might, but no one else will!

 

Not to belittle the importance of emulation (after all, it was emulators that prompted me to get the original hardware!), but I disagree with the assumption that future generations will want to play the old games, but not want the old hardware. As you said in the first paragraph, it's "about the authentic experience of sitting down with the real hardware." It's the coolness factor of playing a game on a 30 year old console, not about 8-bit sprites zipping through an 8-bit background making 8-bit "boop" and "beep" sounds. As an example, my son played around with the emulators on my PC for awhile, then turned around and fired up the authentic consoles to play the games. Why? No doubt because it seemed "cooler" that way. And maybe because it's bit pathetic watching a machine capable of making "The Sims 2" or "Portal" look (and sound) good showing little blinky dots and making "boop" sounds. Kind of like when you see that 80 year old man at the park feeding pigeons, wearing yellow checkered slacks that are pulled up to his nipples and a worn tartan driving cap, you might snicker at his fashion sense. But if you saw an 18 to 20 year old dressed like that, and feeding the pigeons in the park, you'd probably wonder what the hell was wrong with him.

 

I could also see that as us gamers in their 30 and 40's grow older the desire for the younger generation to have an Atari 2600 will probably go down. Will my son who is now six and playing Wii/Xbox360 want much to do with an Atari 2600 ten years from now? I doubt it.

 

While I agree that the demand will go down, there will always be people who are interested in antiques, and the better condition they're in, the more collectible they are. Just look at any episode of "Antiques Roadshow" where someone has brought in some 50 year old toy or appliance, and after finding out it was collectible, got all excited (no matter how well they tried to hide it). Like it or not, the day when the 2600 is a 50 year old "antique" are not that far away (considering it's over 30 years already).

 

Another thing to consider is that the number of consoles/cartridges/etc. is also decreasing, as non-working equipment is cannibalized for parts, or turned into "art pieces" (and actually, some working systems get used for that, too, from what I've seen on eBay). So, while I think Mr. Galaxian is just a tiiiiiiiiiny bit overly optimistic, I don't think the old hardware (and software) will depreciate noticeably, and in fact may appreciate in value, if it still works, as that becomes increasingly rare.

[Mirage]

Well, your guess is certainly as good as anyone else's, so we'll see. As much as I'm not looking forward to growing old(er), it will be interesting to watch as this (and much more "important" issues) progress throughout our lifetimes. Most of us were around for near the dawn of home computing and videogames, so we'll continue to have an interesting perspective 40-50 years from now!

[supercat]

The reason why lightguns don't work on modern tv's is because the image is not scanned onto the display.

 

It probably wouldn't be overly difficult to interface a WII-style "light gun" to older machines, though calibration might be a little tricky. Actually, I'm rather disappointed that the WII doesn't seem to make any effort at calibration, since it should be possible to get pretty accurate aiming of the sensor bar and screen are in the same plane or close to it.

[robcatron]

Well, your guess is certainly as good as anyone else's, so we'll see. As much as I'm not looking forward to growing old(er), it will be interesting to watch as this (and much more "important" issues) progress throughout our lifetimes. Most of us were around for near the dawn of home computing and videogames, so we'll continue to have an interesting perspective 40-50 years from now!

 

I am chiming in late on this one, but it has been an interesting read for sure.

 

I have always felt the key to wanting to collect something, or "get back into it" is to have used it and loved it as a youth. I know I just turned 40, so I was around for phase one Atari. I had a Pong, VCS in about 1979, then moved up to Atari 8-bit computers in 1981, then ST systems in about 1989-1990 or so.

 

When I got older, and got a job, I definitely wanted to get back into Atari, and, more importantly, get all the games that we could not afford to get (or did not know existed) as a child. Also, I wanted to buy they competitive systems that we simply did not have the money to buy (Intellivision, Colecovision to name the two main ones) - I used to play them at my local Heck's Store and salivate over those graphics (only to hear mom say, "you already have a perfectly good Atari!"). But again, this was all nostalgia.

 

I just can't see a large number of people driving up values of games and systems for something that they do not have nostalgia for - something that they did not play extensively between the ages of 7 and 15 or so). I know in the automotive world, you have younger folks that think, "Man, I sure loved that Mustang my dad used to have when I was a kid, so I want to get one" - but still - that is an age-based nostalgia - something from their youth that they couldn't own, but can now because they have some money.

 

I know, for my part, I have absolutely no desire to collect Nintendo or Sega stuff, as that was after my childhood (i.e. I was 18 or so when the NES was hot, and was in College by that time and so into Atari 8-bit and 16-bit hardware that I could have cared less about a Nintendo).

 

I have a "gaming night" every now and again for the youngsters in our church and they have absolutely no interest in playing my retro game systems. Even friends of mine that are 10 years younger - they have no desire. I get all excited and want them to play, but alas, they could care less so I just give up. As these kids get older, I do not think they will have any desire to collect Atari. They may think about collecting PS1, Dreamcast, maybe Genesis or SNES, but not Atari. Just my opinion.

 

I do agree with the folks that say that there are always going to people that want to buy "antiques" or old things, and definitely resellers that will try and supply that urge (and perhaps keep prices at a strong level). Also, there will always be a limited number of young gamers that will want to, "see where it all began."

 

I guess what I am saying is that I think as we die off, the demand for Atari will go lower and lower.

 

It is interesting to think about such things, though - we just never know.

Edited January 9, 2010 by robcatron