The official "ColecoVision 2" thread

[youki]

why not "just" support USB mouse / TrackBall / joystick ?

[kool kitty89]

Excellent news:

First, check what I got in the mail today. Yep, that is right, 100 YM2151, aka the Yamaha OPM FM sound chip.

Does this mean you're committed on using the OPM?

 

YM2151, aka FM Operator Type M (therefore OPM). They first used it with their line of MSX computers aimed on musicians, then created some standalone keyboards around it, the DX100 probably being the most famous. Finally OPMs were used in arcade games (I think Atari was the first to use it, though their games were far of showcase material), in fact they were probably the most used sound chip in arcade games during the late 80s, and the only other "home" device that used the OPM was the X68000 computers. Other two lines of FM chips were create, OPL and OPN, the former being the Sound Blaster line, the later being the MegaDrive line, but the OPM stayed the top FM chip until sometime during the 90s.

The OPM lacked the DX7 6 operators per channel (it had 4 instead), but on the other hand it offered several different waveforms, while the original DX7 only had sine. The OPN was similar but had fewer channels, while the OPL was a very striped down version, with only 2 operators per channel and many missing features.

So there you have it, the OPM, king of arcades during the 80s and previously used only in the Yamaha MSX music computers and X68000 (a $3K+ Japanese computer) will appear in the ColecoVision 2.

A few things: for one, the 2151 is definitely the king of arcades in the late 80s, but persisted into the 90s as well. But on the OPN, there's a lot more usage than that, there are several distinct OPN models, the first being the original OPN being the YM2203 with 3 SSG channels (identical to YM2149 -also including the I/O of the 2149), the OPNA being the YM2608 with 3 SSG (plus I/O) 6 4-op FM, 6 "rythms," and 1 ADPCM channel, then the OPNB or YM2610 of the Neo Geo AES/MVS (3 SSG, 4 4-op FM, 7 ADPCM), and finally the OPN2 YM2612 (and CMOS YM3438) with 6 4-op FM channels only and built-in DAC (cannel 6 can be disabled to allow direct access to the DAC for PCM playback). The OPN and OPNA were most notably used in NEC's PC8801 hoem comuters, the OPN2 being the MegaDrive's (also used in FM Towns and several arcade boards -especially Sega's, including the System 18 and 32). OPN2 is the only one of the bunch to not require an external DAC. (and stereo at that, the only other Yamaha FM chip with built-in DAC would be the cheap YM2413/OPLL)

 

The first I would have thought attractive successors to the MSX line given the backwards compatibility with the AY chip (YM2149 functionaility), I'm not sure why they didn't go that route. (the YM2608 would probably be a bit expensive due to the ADPCM feature, but that wouldn't be true for the 2203, though it does need a separate DAC and would be advantageous as an integrated enhancment on newer MSX models, so it loses all advantages in the context of add-ons as with the music carts, and the YM2612 and YM2413 are the only ones with internal DACs that I know of, the 2149 obviously being the cheap option)

 

But looking at all of Yamaha's single chip synthesizers, the OPL3 would seem pretty attractive, 18 2-op FM channels with ability to reconfigure those in various ways with up to 6x 4-op FM -leaving 6 2-op channels (and 3 2-op channels reconfigurable into 5 drum voices), has stereo capabilities, and has the same size 24-pin package as the 2151/OPL/OPL2/OPN2. (well, there are surface mounted versions too) It seems like the flexibility there would be advantageous compared to the YM2151, the OPM still has the advantage of 8 full 4-op channels of course. I'd immagine the OPL3 is one of the most common of the line given its use in Soundblaster compatibles. (SB Pro 2.0 and 16 and many later ones with lagacy support) Dual YM2612s would seem liek a really neat option, it would certianly omit th eneed for any external DACs and you'd get 12x 4-op voices with stereo capabilities. (hard panning or full panning when paired)

 

The OPL4 would likely be too expensive for the CV2 given it's more complex nature. (PCM/wavetable synthesis requiring external RAM+ROM and such, probably far less common as well, the OPM, OPN2, OPLL, OPL2, OPL3 probably being the most common and affordable -iirc the original OPN was used rather infrequently, mainly in a few arcade games) Plus there's the 8-bit DAC mode for channel 6 if that would be useful for anything.

 

The other news is that I started assembling the first prototype, and I hope to have some "sounding" news soon...

Here are some linking for YM2151 music..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0Jj-andLxA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSHAE63Z7_U&NR=1

 

[EDIT:] For those who want to create music using the YM2151, there is a powerful emulator evailable, VOPM.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/228.html

More memorable tunes from the 80s that started on the YM2151 (links are for YM2151 versions only):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxcVk6ygHVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79poPPkxAYk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGswImbRkaE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBXCV3tYRsg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT7VOIy9CY0&feature=related

 

Now that my source for chips has been verified, I am going to get the YM2151 DAC (YM3012) and the CV PSG next, 100 each. That gives us the complete sound chipset. Then after the Chinese new year we can go for the video stuff...

 

Hmm, I'm not goign to go clip by clip, but some of those include a lot of PCM mixed with the FM synth, it's not all pure FM music (double dragon for one), so not all is representative of the YM2151 alone. (though you did mention including some kind of PCM harware in the CV2, right?)

A lot of the X68000 stuf has PCM too, including the castlevania stuff. (for the record I prefer most of the Bludlines remixes, even if simpler in some ways, do note that those are indeed all FM for music -unfortunately Konami chose to stick witht he weak FM drums rather than soem decent sampled ones, but at least's its fair for th ecomparison, not even PSG to screw the comparison up I think, fewer channels than the 2151 of course -especially with channel 6 dedicated to soudn effects -I think)

 

Would you also want to include the AY/YM2149 chip if that ends up in the final super expansion module? (assuming that doesn't get cancelled in favor of the CV2 alone)

 

They were created to be used as a dual chipeset solution. The V9990 was called the V9978 in the preliminary docs, but was later renamed once the MSX3 got cancelled. The reason why it is a separate chip is because the V9958 had reached the limits of what could be done with its current memory architecture. The V9990 replaces the DRAM video memory scheme used since the TMS9928 days with dual-ported VRAM. That is why it can be so fast, even though both it and the V9958 are running at the same clock. The V9990 blitter is up to 20 times faster than the V9958.

Why did they have to go with VRAM? This is the early 90s, right, so why would VRAM be the main solution for faster memory? (obviously SRAM could be fast too, but even more expensive) Why not simple faster DRAM (perhaps EDODRAM even, too early for SDRAM I think), no to mention opting for a wider bus width. (does the V9990 use an 8-bit bus for the VRAM?) I mean th eAmiga blitter did all its rendering in 7.16 MHz 16-bit DRAM, right? (and interleaved witht he CPU at that -cutting into CPU time if exceeding 50% bus saturation)

I mean the PSX and 3DO used VRAM as did soem graphics cards as well, but those were aslo at relatively high clock speeds and bus widths for their time. (I think the MD was the only console prior to that to use actual VRAM -dual ported DRAM, others mostly using SRAM like SNES and PCE iirc, SMS/SG-1000 used DRAM I think -not sure about SMS though)

 

 

The Z80 in the CV2 should run at 4 times the original speed, however the V9990 adds an extra burden on the CPU, because the sprite table is 4 times the original size, as is the name table. With DMA transfer you can take the Z80 out of the bus, give control to the DMA controller, transfer the data from RAM to VRAM in very high speed (up to 10MB/s), then return the bus to the Z80.

So with the new CPU, do you plan to stick with the Z80 alone, go for a higher cloced version, a Z180, Z380, eZ80, or what? (would the R800 be a possibility?) From the above it sounds liek you're just going for a simple faster clocked Z80, is this correct?

Edited February 10, 2010 by kool kitty89

[opcode]

Something I did for the MSX years ago. Never completed, but it shows some of the V9958 capabilities. Of course a version with full size maze would also be possible, as the V9958 offers hardware scroll, though the current version is ok as a quick proof of concept.

 

[Draugr]

Just a question. I don't recall seeing this mentioned already.

 

Would it be possible to have some sort of High Score Saving ship on the actual CV2? I figure since you mentioned that the CV2 will work with both carts and roms from a SD card, that perhaps the system could save high scores for the games. Actually, perhaps the SD slot could be used to hold an SD card that the CV2 would record the high scores for any games played on that particular CV2 system. Does this sound like something that is possible?

 

Thanks

John

[Murph74]

Possible, yes. Not sure how practical it would be though. I'd expect it to be similar to save-states in MAME, where a memory address is recorded for the high score table on a game by game basis, and then recalled when that game is loaded again. Not sure how that could or would factor into Eduardo's plans though.

[jboypacman]

I just found this tread today and it would be great if a "ColecoVision 2" could be made!

 

Like AtariLeaf i sold my CV collection because i got tired of mess with the faulty hardware so i new and improved system sounds good to me.

[Pixelboy]

Would it be possible to have some sort of High Score Saving ship on the actual CV2? I figure since you mentioned that the CV2 will work with both carts and roms from a SD card, that perhaps the system could save high scores for the games. Actually, perhaps the SD slot could be used to hold an SD card that the CV2 would record the high scores for any games played on that particular CV2 system. Does this sound like something that is possible?

I believe your information is outdated. The CV2 had been originally "imagined" with a savegame chip, but Eduardo is currently working on his memory expansion module and more importantly the MegaCart2, which will include a savegame chip in the cartridge (for saving high score tables, etc.). This implies that the CV2 will not contain any such save chip. It's not a sure thing whether the CV2 will work with SD cards or not, Eduardo seems to change his mind every other month about that (not a criticism, of course, just noting).

[jeremysart]

This is truly ambitious! I cant wait to hear more and more updates.

Controller Idea

 

Since not everyone owns a Colecovision, or Colecovision controllers, would it be possible to make the console compatible with other controllers with similar ports, much like using a Genesis controller on the 2600, perhaps you could use an array of Atari/ Intellivsion/ or Sega controllers.

Either way its not a problem with me, as I have about 6 standard working Colecovision controllers, but I just thought opening up compatibility would also open up a wider audience.

 

Game Idea

 

I would definitely like to see some Arcade games that didnt make it to consoles earlier than the NES, such as Arkanoid and Bubble Bobble.

 

The idea of Vector Based games is very exciting, and opens up a whole new library of possibilities. Playing something close to the original green vector StarWars game on a "Colecovision 2" Would be amazing.

 

I also like the sound of *possible* ray casting. The idea of CV2 port of Doom fills me with joy!

 

Game Art

 

Keep in mind I'm a good artist, and would love to do any label/ box art that is non-sports related.

 

EDIT: Also reading through the thread I see a lot of debate about whether or not to use SD/ Flash. If not at least a multicart compatibility, there should for sure be an SD slot on the console if the technology is not too expensive/ time consuming.

Edited March 26, 2010 by jeremysart

[jeremysart]

Oh yeah, I also wanted to agree with youki on the possibility of USB support, i/e mouse or keyboard. Would be cool, I have a really nice pro track ball mouse But of course we have to keep ideas realistic.

 

I also wanted to say, OP, please sign me on for any games you make! I was really disappointed I got skipped over on CV Mario Bros, I asked to be put on the list when I first joined AA, and I PM'ed ya! I want to make sure that don't happen with Knightmare. I'm a CV and ADAM enthusiast, I definitely want to get in on any brew being put out there and all of these projects are ambitious, its awesome to see!

Edited March 27, 2010 by jeremysart

[Pixelboy]

I would definitely like to see some Arcade games that didnt make it to consoles earlier than the NES, such as Arkanoid and Bubble Bobble.

 

And yes, that is an actual ColecoVision demo. There's more footage of the game on YouTube if you care to search. Also, note of interest: I prepared most of the graphics.

[jeremysart]

I would definitely like to see some Arcade games that didnt make it to consoles earlier than the NES, such as Arkanoid and Bubble Bobble.

 

And yes, that is an actual ColecoVision demo. There's more footage of the game on YouTube if you care to search. Also, note of interest: I prepared most of the graphics.

 

I already knew about Arkanoid Its one of my favorite games. I mean it will be cool to see it and other games of the time appear on the console. Its one of the ports that I anticipate the most.

[HDTV1080P]

I am glad that a Colecovision 2 videogame system might be made in the future. On my existing Colecovision I like using both the expansion module #1 Atari 2600 adapter and expansion module #3 the Adam computer super game module.

 

If I cannot plug in a Adam computer into the new Colecovision 2 most likely I would not purchase the product. Being able to use my ADAM computer with a Colecovision 2 would be very important to me.

 

The existing 1982 Colecovision would be a better product compared too the 21st Century Colecovision 2 if the front expansion port was missing from the new design.

 

That does not mean a Colecovision 2 would not sell well. Telegames sold the Colecovision personal arcade machine that played Colecovision cartridges and lacked a front expansion port. Consumers want a factory new system to play old Colecovision cartridges. There is a market for a new system that only plays old Colecovision cartridges.

 

The Colecovision 2 would be popular with many people if it had a HDMI output with one legacy composite video output. If HDMI were not an option then at least one Component Video output would be nice. All the modern computer monitors are using only HDMI or DVI. Most new HDTV's have 4 or more HDMI inputs with at least one legacy component video input. Also if the Colecovision 2 had a built in supergame module with an improved graphics chip and sound for future games that would be nice.

 

In a older thread I posted some detailed ideas about what features would be nice to have on a "Colecovision II" console.

 

http://www.atariage....eo-game-system/

Edited May 17, 2010 by HDTV1080P

[smurfbert]

I would def buy two systems just in case one would break down! Cant wait to play my old games whenever I feel like, instead of when my CV system decides to let me play. So backward compatibility would be my main reason to purchase the CV2!

 

Are you planing on including new controllers with the CV2?

 

Also a expansion dvd module would be awesome for Laserdisc ports, Dragons Lair, Bad Lands, Cliff Hanger

 

Maybe your new Donkey Kong conversion would be a nice CV2 release game, to follow the traditions of the original CV.

[HDTV1080P]

Also a expansion dvd module would be awesome for Laserdisc ports, Dragons Lair, Bad Lands, Cliff Hanger

 

 

 

Coleco was planning on interfacing a Laserdisc player to the ADAM to play games like Dragon's Lair on Laserdisc. The project was canceled of course. Some old Laserdisc players have a RS-232 interface and with a MIB3 card connected to the Adam it would be possible for a programmer to have the Adam computer control a laserdisc player with a RS-232 interface. Of course games like Dragons Lair and Space Ace are going for several hundreds of dollars or more on Laserdisc and are very hard to find in that format. The Coleco ADAM computer could have controlled a Laserdisc player and the graphics and sound would have came out of the Laserdisc player directly with the ADAM just reading the joystick movement and sending commands to the Laserdisc player to skip chapters and play certain parts of the Laserdisc.

 

There are external BD-ROM drives available now that use a USB interface. It would be neat to interface a Blu-ray player with the ADAM or Colecovision using some type of USB hub. A BD-ROM drive also plays DVD-ROM's and CD-ROM's.

 

Here are some games that were released on BLU-RAY disc but have been discontinued by Digital Leisure INC according to the info on the DVD empire website.

 

Dragon's Lair

 

http://www.dvdempire...item_id=1321872

 

Dragon's Lair II Time Warp

 

http://www.dvdempire...item_id=1477807

 

Space ACE

 

http://www.dvdempire...item_id=1391898

 

In reality offering Dragon's Lair and Space ACE on the ADAM or Colecovision with arcade quality or HD quality that is better then the arcade would be such a niche product. The graphics card in the BLU-RAY player would need to be used since there is no way the existing Colecovision graphics card could handle the 1080P quality video.

 

Here are some video clips of Dragonn's Lair, Daragon's Lair II, and Space Ace that are in 1080P HD quality that can be played on any BLU-RAY player or PS3.

 

https://shopdigitall...lu-ray-ps3.html

Edited May 17, 2010 by HDTV1080P

[HDTV1080P]

Correction to prior post, the Blu-ray discs of Dragon's Lair, Dragon's Lair II, and Space ACE are still in production

 

quote from email I just received

 

"Not sure why they would be displaying that, but we certainly do have the

Blu-ray version of both Dragon's Lair and Space Ace available for sale.

Please visit www.shopdigitalleisure.com for all of our available products.

 

I'll pass along to our sales team that DVD Empire is listing it as

discontinued. Thanks.

 

Best Regards,

Digital Leisure Inc."

Edited May 17, 2010 by HDTV1080P

[+eebuckeye]

I would buy a Coleco 2 in a second!!!

[Hitachi]

So, is this still in the works??

If so, I'm super excited..

[Mika73]

Now this is very very cool..

If there will be Colecovision 2, I will buy one. First I find out all these new games that are coming to Coleco, I would love to buy Pacman Collection if its possible.. and there was also Mario Bros etc..

I have Atari Max Coleco USB flash cart and been hoping to get composite mod to my PAL Colecovision years now. Is there any RSS feel of what happening Coleco world today.. I dont really wanna miss anything anymore.. So many Coleco memorys when i was kid of Smurf, Turbo, Donkey Kong and everything.. This is just great news.

Dont know how complex is this Atari 2600 expansion module.. I have one, but havent tryed it.. But if there is new machine coming, maybe there could be port for Atari 2600 carts too..

[Sega CD]

I have a question... and it seems like this had been discussed before but not fully answered.

 

Are you planning on releasing a Colecovision 2 upgrade for the original Colecovision? Is it even technically feasible?

 

I'm just having a real problem with spending money on the Super Game Module if a lot of arcade homebrew ports for the "Colecovision" will be released for the Colecovision 2 when it is released. I'm not planning on getting a CV2 as I have a real connection with my old CV1 (and personally feel the large size, RF output, and semi-poor controllers add a character to the system no "remake" could ever replicate). I enjoy the CV homebrew scene because of the excellent arcade ports that are recently coming out. I wish to make my CV the "home classic arcade system" (no MAME for me please! ) so I don't want to buy a module that wont let me play future ports of arcade games. I have an odd feeling the development of many future arcade ports will shift to the "CV2 only" category which I really don't want to happen without having the ability to play it on my favorite little CV1.

 

Thanks!

[Mika73]

How much does Super Game Module cost? Is it sale yet? What games support it at the moment?

[Pixelboy]

How much does Super Game Module cost? Is it sale yet? What games support it at the moment?

Read this thread from begining to end, and draw your own conclusions. Opcode doesn't come here anymore, so if you want news about anything Opcode-related, I suggest keeping a bookmark on World of Opcode.

[Mika73]

Thanks. I have read something about this expansion, but I couldnt find it sale at his page. I am oldskool Coleco games, so all this new for me

[Corby]

Whats the status Of the CV2??

[Jordiway73]

I think a smaller CV2 that looked like the original would be cool, sort of like what nex did with the N.E.S. here and they also added wireless contollers as well.

 

 

Not sure who's controller this is but something like this to go with it would be pretty cool not sure how hard it would be to have the wireless option

 

Edited January 11, 2011 by Jordiway73

[S1500]

Okay I want to know more about that CV game pad. That looks 100 times more comfortable than the original. Sure, can't use overlays, but who cares?