NEW Atari 2600 Game Shown

[lucifershalo]

All I can add

is that ,Mister, you have made a brilliant conversion

I know nothing about programming

but I know something about good looking game

and those that play well

and it does look great!

I am not a collector for the sake of

but I like to collect games that I enjoy playing

so I hope that someday you will decide to release it on cart

I think it is the best reward a programmer can have

that is his creation is played and appreciated

 

Thank you , sir

[solidcorp]

Thank you lucifershalo.

[Mayhem]

Indeed... it looks a very good representation of Star Castle for the 2600 (and after Thrust got done, I figured someone should be able to do this as well!) and I hope at some point down the line, many more of us can enjoy it for real. My only decision regarding releasing cartridge versions of something I own as a unique item was possible demand to recoup some of what I spent (to which I haven't gone there). I don't think you'd have any problem regards demand in selling copies of this game in whatever direction it occurs (be it self made, through AA etc).

[Adriana]

Why would anyone make a game -- not just this game, but ANY game -- and not want other people to play it? I'm baffled!

[solidcorp]

Over 10 million people have bought games I've worked on over the last 20 years.

 

I wrote Star Castle to prove it could be done and I'm not finished with it. I worked on it intermittently over the last two years, and pretty hardcore over the last four months sacrificing time I could have spent on other projects or with my family.

 

I am fiercely proud of the nearly finished product and I can't convey how surprised, flattered, and appreciative I am that people want to help me sell it and others legitimately want to buy it. Unfortunately, once I let the genie out of the bottle I can't put it back, and lets be honest with ourselves, once I release it in any form I can expect that it will be more downloaded than purchased which dilutes the effort in my opinion.

 

For the time being, I'm going to focus on fabricating just this one special cartridge for myself.

 

Thanks,

 

D. Scott Williamson

[Albert]

Unfortunately, once I let the genie out of the bottle I can't put it back, and lets be honest with ourselves, once I release it in any form I can expect that it will be more downloaded than purchased which dilutes the effort in my opinion.

I don't understand this statement at all. Why would people playing your game (whether it be by downloading or purchasing in cartridge form) dilute your effort? More people would be enjoying the game. Do you mean, "People would pirate my game and I wouldn't make as much per copy being played"? Considering you stated you weren't in this "for the money", I'm getting mixed signals.

 

I personally take affront to the whole, "I developed this awesome game but I'm not going to let any of you play it!" mentality.

 

..Al

[Cebus Capucinis]

At least Team Savage were going to release their game....

[solidcorp]

Unfortunately, once I let the genie out of the bottle I can't put it back, and lets be honest with ourselves, once I release it in any form I can expect that it will be more downloaded than purchased which dilutes the effort in my opinion.

I don't understand this statement at all. Why would people playing your game (whether it be by downloading or purchasing in cartridge form) dilute your effort? More people would be enjoying the game. Do you mean, "People would pirate my game and I wouldn't make as much per copy being played"? Considering you stated you weren't in this "for the money", I'm getting mixed signals.

 

I personally take affront to the whole, "I developed this awesome game but I'm not going to let any of you play it!" mentality.

 

..Al

 

I did show and let people play the game at VGS.

 

I expended a great deal of effort to make Star Castle and I don't want ANYONE to have it for free.

The only way I can protect it is not to release it into production, which wasn't my goal in the first place.

I don't need the money and a few thousand dollars is far less than the value of my time and effort poured into this project anyway. If I wanted to make money I'd be making iPhone apps or XBLA games in my spare time rather than classic games. I guess it's more of an exhibition piece, I hadn't given it any thought while doing it, I didn't even know it could be done until about two weeks ago (I ran out of RAM and ROM at the same time there were serious timing issues and there were still more game features to be done). I love the classic game scene and I love squeezing the most out of very constrained hardware systems - the 2600 is the best! I also love a challenge and that's what I found in Howard Scott Warshaws quotes.

 

Some of you just don't get it. I did it to do it, I did it for the love of doing it.

 

I'm getting the impression you would rather not know something you can't have exists.

 

D. Scott Williamson

[Cebus Capucinis]

"I'M GOING TO TAKE MY TOYS TO ANOTHER SANDBOX! AND NONE OF YOU WILL GET TO PLAY WITH THEM! SO THERE!"

 

Gorf? Is that you?

[solidcorp]

What is the Team Savage game?

 

Link please?

 

D. Scott Williamson

[e1will]

To be fair, Scott didn't start this post.

 

And to his credit, when people asked him for technical details, he offered them, and when they asked him for a video showing the gameplay, he posted one.

 

I understand why he's wary of piracy... heck, before Duck Attack! was even finished, somebody grabbed the work-in-progress bins from the homebrew thread and uploaded them to their pirate ROM sites.

 

The key thing for me is that he feels the game's not finished. Once it's done to his satisfaction hopefully he'll want to share it with the world. Finishing a game like that is no small feat, so it makes sense to me he'd want to focus on that before considering a release.

 

And if he truly only wants one copy of the game to exist... well, there's certainly nothing stopping other 2600 developers from making our own version(s) of Star Castle that could be released to everyone. I wouldn't at all be surprised if this thread inspired somebody to do just that.

 

--Will

[+save2600]

I'm getting the impression you would rather not know something you can't have exists.

...and that's the number one reason I no longer give an extremely pretty woman the satisfaction of knowing I think she's all that by copping a glance. Turn away or be turned to a pillar of salt!

 

@Cebus... Gorf. ROTFLMAO!

 

Between peoples confused politics and convictions, hypocrisy abounds today. Probably best to let this be before another bridge ends up getting burned.

Edited July 21, 2010 by save2600

[solidcorp]

"I'M GOING TO TAKE MY TOYS TO ANOTHER SANDBOX! AND NONE OF YOU WILL GET TO PLAY WITH THEM! SO THERE!"

 

Gorf? Is that you?

 

So, by your analogy let's say I constructed my own toy, for the sake of argument an intricate model that took years to make. Nobody knew I was working on the model and noone knew it existed until I shared it with a few at a nice party (VGS). Now I'm happy returning to my own sandbox and contented to play only with close friends (where my toy is less likely to be stolen), what's the problem?

 

What's the Gorf reference - sounds like it might be funny - link?

 

D. Scott Williamson

[solidcorp]

To be fair, Scott didn't start this post.

 

And to his credit, when people asked him for technical details, he offered them, and when they asked him for a video showing the gameplay, he posted one.

 

I understand why he's wary of piracy... heck, before Duck Attack! was even finished, somebody grabbed the work-in-progress bins from the homebrew thread and uploaded them to their pirate ROM sites.

 

The key thing for me is that he feels the game's not finished. Once it's done to his satisfaction hopefully he'll want to share it with the world. Finishing a game like that is no small feat, so it makes sense to me he'd want to focus on that before considering a release.

 

And if he truly only wants one copy of the game to exist... well, there's certainly nothing stopping other 2600 developers from making our own version(s) of Star Castle that could be released to everyone. I wouldn't at all be surprised if this thread inspired somebody to do just that.

 

--Will

 

 

Thank you so much Will.

 

I'm not offended or upset but I have to admit I've become rather interested in the human nature this thread is exploring.

 

D. Scott Williamson

[solidcorp]

I'm getting the impression you would rather not know something you can't have exists.

...and that's the number one reason I no longer give an extremely pretty woman the satisfaction of knowing I think she's all that by copping a glance. Best turn away or be turned to a pillar of salt!

 

@Cebus... Gorf. ROTFLMAO!

 

Oh great, now I'm being compared to pretty women by jilted men who have given up on the fairer sex. ROFL.

If you've seen the video, you know I not that good looking

 

(just kidding don't take this one too seriously)

 

D. Scott Williamson.

[s0c7]

Just want to chime in with a word of support for him as well. As stated, he didn't start this thread. And keep in mind a lot of us who have released things in the past are just amateur hobbyists. He actually works in the industry. I would imagine that gives you a different perspective on things like piracy.

 

Pretty much any bin that gets posted immediately winds up added to those mega-torrents floating around. And we all have seen the carts on E-Bay with the you know what in the lower corner. Even though I always try to release bins, I also usually put some text in the manual saying it's ok to distribute the bin but you can't sell it without permission.

 

Anyway, he's not finished with it. Perhaps he will change his mind by the time he completes it, maybe not. In the end, it's his to either release or not.

[CPUWIZ]

"I'M GOING TO TAKE MY TOYS TO ANOTHER SANDBOX! AND NONE OF YOU WILL GET TO PLAY WITH THEM! SO THERE!"

 

Gorf? Is that you?

 

 

+1

[KevinMos3]

I expended a great deal of effort to make Star Castle and I don't want ANYONE to have it for free.

Disclaimer: I'm not begging for a release and I sincerely hope I don't offend you. It is not my intention to be rude in any way. I'm not attributing any motives to you -- any jabs are not directed at you, but at others in various communities I've seen over the years.

I think I understand now. While I don't agree with the premise, I understand the sentiment. You've put a lot of hard work into it and don't want people to play it without any sacrifice of their own, (meaning spending hard earned cash). This is entirely legitimate. But at the same time, you feel that any money earned from sales couldn't possibly offset the time and labor you've put into the game, (which is the reality -- standard selling price in the homebrew market to a limited number of buyers would never amount to real compensation for you. Meanwhile, you didn't do this with the intent of selling it, so there's no incentive to release it for a pittance. It's the enjoyment of making it and the pride of accomplishing something that others said couldn't be done that matter to you. All understandable points. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

The part I don't agree with is that I see games as things to be played and enjoyed.* I don't understand a programmer putting all the time and effort into something that only they will enjoy. I wonder if that is in fact not enough, and the reason why we see those who do something and then show it without releasing it. They get the enjoyment of their work plus they get the compliments of others saying how good it looks and how much they'd like to have it. It seems to me that seeing the most amount of people possible enjoying your work would be more rewarding, but this is where my view conflicts with many programmers. In the current market of 360, Wii, and PS3 production, I understand the disdain and fear of piracy. But in the retro market where no one can possibly expect to make a living, let alone get rich, I say do it for the love of doing it and let as many people as possible play it. edit: But I'm not a professional programmer, so I really don't understand their way of thinking (-remembering the confusion I felt reading Rob Fulop's thread).

 

I spent years, (about six), working on a project before and once I released it, I saw websites from Brazil selling my work. I was offended, but at the same time, what would be the point of fighting it? Should I have not released it? I didn't do the project with the intent of making money, heck I released my work for free because I wanted as many people as possible to get it. I didn't like the idea of others profiting from it, but at least those dirty brasilian sellers were getting it into the hands of people who would probably have never gotten it otherwise.

 

I'm getting the impression you would rather not know something you can't have exists.

While I have mixed feelings about this, I would tend to agree with that statement. I like to know something exists, but I think it's because I have hope that I might someday be able to own or play it, (most prototypes have fallen into this category). In this case, I hope that once it's finished you will one day change your mind and decide to release your work, so at this point I'm glad you let us know about it.

 

On the other hand, if it turns out that down the road there's no hope of it ever being released, then I would prefer to have not known about it. I feel that way with a lot of the so-called "limited run" stuff. If it's done for any reason other than practicality of production numbers, I feel it serves no other purpose than to stroke the releaser's ego and it's a tease. Hey, look what you can't have! (I'm not saying that about you)

 

 

*subnote from 2^nd paragraph: This is why I feel deeply offended with the "collector only" mentality. Some people will buy anything and pay any price for a crap game just to have it in their collection. I couldn't care less if a game is supposed to be "rare." To me, that has NO effect on its value. I won't pay more for a crap game just because it's harder to find, which is why I'll probably never own Chase the Chuckwagon. I'd love to have the game and would actually play it if I did, but it can't possibly justify the price it goes for. But that's the way the world works. I say if one wants to collect something with no intention of using it, they should go collect stamps!

Edited July 21, 2010 by KevinMos3

[horseboy]

Some of you guys are ruthless. It seems a lot of you feel you have the right to this game just because it exists. It is his creation, and he can do as he pleases.

[CPUWIZ]

Some of you guys are ruthless. It seems a lot of you feel you have the right to this game just because it exists. It is his creation, and he can do as he pleases.

 

Isn't it equally ruthless to come to a place where many hardcore gamers and collectors hang out and go "Looky, shiny new carrot, you can't have it!"?

 

I've been professionally making games since around 1985 and I don't get that sort of thing at all.

[solidcorp]

I expended a great deal of effort to make Star Castle and I don't want ANYONE to have it for free.

Disclaimer: I'm not begging for a release and I sincerely hope I don't offend you. It is not my intention to be rude in any way. I'm not attributing any motives to you -- any jabs are not directed at you, but at others in various communities I've seen over the years.

I think I understand now. While I don't agree with the premise, I understand the sentiment. You've put a lot of hard work into it and don't want people to play it without any sacrifice of their own, (meaning spending hard earned cash). This is entirely legitimate. But at the same time, you feel that any money earned from sales couldn't possibly offset the time and labor you've put into the game, (which is the reality -- standard selling price in the homebrew market to a limited number of buyers would never amount to real compensation for you. Meanwhile, you didn't do this with the intent of selling it, so there's no incentive to release it for a pittance. It's the enjoyment of making it and the pride of accomplishing something that others said couldn't be done that matter to you. All understandable points. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

The part I don't agree with is that I see games as things to be played and enjoyed.* I don't understand a programmer putting all the time and effort into something that only they will enjoy. I wonder if that is in fact not enough, and the reason why we see those who do something and then show it without releasing it. They get the enjoyment of their work plus they get the compliments of others saying how good it looks and how much they'd like to have it. It seems to me that seeing the most amount of people possible enjoying your work would be more rewarding, but this is where my view conflicts with many programmers. In the current market of 360, Wii, and PS3 production, I understand the disdain and fear of piracy. But in the retro market where no one can possibly expect to make a living, let alone get rich, I say do it for the love of doing it and let as many people as possible play it. edit: But I'm not a professional programmer, so I really don't understand their way of thinking (-remembering the confusion I felt reading Rob Fulop's thread).

 

I spent years, (about six), working on a project before and once I released it, I saw websites from Brazil selling my work. I was offended, but at the same time, what would be the point of fighting it? Should I have not released it? I didn't do the project with the intent of making money, heck I released my work for free because I wanted as many people as possible to get it. I didn't like the idea of others profiting from it, but at least those dirty brasilian sellers were getting it into the hands of people who would probably have never gotten it otherwise.

 

I'm getting the impression you would rather not know something you can't have exists.

While I have mixed feelings about this, I would tend to agree with that statement. I like to know something exists, but I think it's because I have hope that I might someday be able to own or play it, (most prototypes have fallen into this category). In this case, I hope that once it's finished you will one day change your mind and decide to release your work, so at this point I'm glad you let us know about it.

 

On the other hand, if it turns out that down the road there's no hope of it ever being released, then I would prefer to have not known about it. I feel that way with a lot of the so-called "limited run" stuff. If it's done for any reason other than practicality of production numbers, I feel it serves no other purpose than to stroke the releaser's ego and it's a tease. Hey, look what you can't have! (I'm not saying that about you)

 

 

*subnote from 2^nd paragraph: This is why I feel deeply offended with the "collector only" mentality. Some people will buy anything and pay any price for a crap game just to have it in their collection. I couldn't care less if a game is supposed to be "rare." To me, that has NO effect on its value. I won't pay more for a crap game just because it's harder to find, which is why I'll probably never own Chase the Chuckwagon. I'd love to have the game and would actually play it if I did, but it can't possibly justify the price it goes for. But that's the way the world works. I say if one wants to collect something with no intention of using it, they should go collect stamps!

 

You make good points across the board. I think you understand where I'm coming from here.

I neither showed the game nor am withholding the game in any attempt to tease people.

 

D. Scott Williamson

[horseboy]

Some of you guys are ruthless. It seems a lot of you feel you have the right to this game just because it exists. It is his creation, and he can do as he pleases.

 

Isn't it equally ruthless to come to a place where many hardcore gamers and collectors hang out and go "Looky, shiny new carrot, you can't have it!"?

 

I've been professionally making games since around 1985 and I don't get that sort of thing at all.

 

 

I agree with that totally, but he didn't really do that. Somebody else started the thread. He has answered pretty much any question that has been asked of him. I would love a copy of it, but it is totally up to him.

[CPUWIZ]

I agree with that totally, but he didn't really do that. Somebody else started the thread. He has answered pretty much any question that has been asked of him. I would love a copy of it, but it is totally up to him.

 

You're right, Crimefighter did it.

 

[+save2600]

My those are some pretty large matzo balls pictured there! Now all he needs is some broth and we'll have a party - OY!

 

 

[lucifershalo]

SO you dont want to release it on cartridge at all. Full stop.Ok....let's accept that...

 

because , if you are thinking about it, you are sending mixed signals.....

and even if I dont entirely understand your), reasoning (you are so "scared" of pirating that you prefer not to release your creation at all) let's hope we wont find your "own special personal" cartridge on Ebay because that would discredit you...