A tale of 3 Atari 810 drives

[JonnyBritish]

So right now I have 3 Atari 810 drives

 

2 have the door which pops opens and the other has the one described as a garage door.

 

One of them with the pop open door works but does not sound ideal. It does load software though.

The second and third give Boot Error messages.

 

Question, what can i test? Could it be the belt / mechanism. One of the units came with a perfect 810 box so I am keen to get at least the top units with the pop open doors working.

 

Can these be saved, improved?

[spookt]

1st off do they spin? If so I'd try cleaning the heads first. There are plenty of posts here about how but if you get stuck just shout.

[JonnyBritish]

1st off do they spin? If so I'd try cleaning the heads first. There are plenty of posts here about how but if you get stuck just shout.

 

They all spin and sound like the heads are moving

[+orpheuswaking]

I assume they are all set to D1 and you are testing them one by one.

[JonnyBritish]

I assume they are all set to D1 and you are testing them one by one.

 

Yes testing one at a time

[+orpheuswaking]

I assume they are all set to D1 and you are testing them one by one.

 

Yes testing one at a time

 

And they are all set to D1? (you would be suprised how many times I've changed drive numbers and thought the drive was borked)

[JonnyBritish]

I assume they are all set to D1 and you are testing them one by one.

 

Yes testing one at a time

 

And they are all set to D1? (you would be suprised how many times I've changed drive numbers and thought the drive was borked)

 

Yes check and they are all set to D1

[+orpheuswaking]

Ok, do you have a different SIO cable (I'm just trying to eliminate simple stuff first)... I have a couple cables that are flaky and I get boot errors with them on my 810's

 

Oh, and I would also clean the heads as previously mentioned.

Edited September 12, 2010 by orpheuswaking

[JonnyBritish]

Ok, do you have a different SIO cable (I'm just trying to eliminate simple stuff first)... I have a couple cables that are flaky and I get boot errors with them on my 810's

 

Oh, and I would also clean the heads as previously mentioned.

 

Just tested and got no difference. When i switch on the non functioning drive i hear the disk spin then i get the short grind nose 3 times then get boot error on the screen.

 

I have an identical working unit so wondering if i should try swapping bits to work out what is failing..course that also risks breaking the working unit..

[+bob1200xl]

You really should check the speed and track zero first. There are programs for checking RPMs and you can format a disk to check track zero. (won't read on a good drive)

 

Bob

 

 

 

Ok, do you have a different SIO cable (I'm just trying to eliminate simple stuff first)... I have a couple cables that are flaky and I get boot errors with them on my 810's

 

Oh, and I would also clean the heads as previously mentioned.

 

Just tested and got no difference. When i switch on the non functioning drive i hear the disk spin then i get the short grind nose 3 times then get boot error on the screen.

 

I have an identical working unit so wondering if i should try swapping bits to work out what is failing..course that also risks breaking the working unit..

[+orpheuswaking]

I agree with what Bob said...

 

However I will tell you that on several of my non working 810 drives, removing and reseating the controller board (the upright board on the left when looking at the drive from the front) cleared most of my problems... I think the contacts oxidize easily...

 

of course that's just my experience.

[Defender II]

After cleaning the head (only one on each of these drives) and checking cables and connections...if it still doesn't work...

 

Are you using a factory formated disk or one that someone else formated? I have received disks formated by someone on a mis-aligned drive that won't boot on a properly aligned drive.

 

If you have tried more than one known working factory Atari boot disk that doesn't boot in your drive, then it seems like a head alignment problem at this point. They are tying to read. Many times old floppy drives that have been moved or shipped get banged around and misaligned. You need an alignment disk and an o-scope to do it right, but it is possible to do just by adjusting on-the-fly using a good factory Atari boot disk that boots on another drive. It shouldn't be too far out of alignment so only a slight adjustment usually will fix it. Don't try this unless you are confident that it is out of alignment and that you are capable of adjusting it.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Defender II

[rtechone]

After cleaning the head (only one on each of these drives) and checking cables and connections...if it still doesn't work...

 

Are you using a factory formated disk or one that someone else formated? I have received disks formated by someone on a mis-aligned drive that won't boot on a properly aligned drive.

 

If you have tried more than one known working factory Atari boot disk that doesn't boot in your drive, then it seems like a head alignment problem at this point. They are tying to read. Many times old floppy drives that have been moved or shipped get banged around and misaligned. You need an alignment disk and an o-scope to do it right, but it is possible to do just by adjusting on-the-fly using a good factory Atari boot disk that boots on another drive. It shouldn't be too far out of alignment so only a slight adjustment usually will fix it. Don't try this unless you are confident that it is out of alignment and that you are capable of adjusting it.

 

How would you go about aligning the heads? I purhcased a 810 that can not format disks. The drive steps back to the outer part of the disk then steps to the inner part, but once it gets very close to the inner ring it stops. The drive keeps on spinnig without stepping back, and I get an error 138. Or something to that effect. I read up on the error and it is supposed to be a communication error. About a minute after the error shows up on the screen, I see the drive head step back towards the outside of the floppy disk, but after a while of stepping back it completely stops rotating. What could be the problem? I have an SIO2PC that I built, so I am loading disk images using APE. Is there an image of a Disk Diagnostic Tool? I used Sparta DOS Utilities to check the drive RPM and adjusted it to 288-289RPM. I do not have any disks with programs or that are properly formatted, to test if it is able to read. Any help or tips, would be greatly appreciated.

 

PS, I forgot to mention that my 810 appears to be the early model with no additional board sitting above the drive read/write head.

Edited December 13, 2010 by rtechone

[+bob1200xl]

You say that you do not have any disks that are known to be good? How did you set the RPM without a disk? Be careful to use only 360K, DD diskettes. HD diskettes will not work. What DOS are you using in APE?

 

Bob

 

After cleaning the head (only one on each of these drives) and checking cables and connections...if it still doesn't work...

 

Are you using a factory formated disk or one that someone else formated? I have received disks formated by someone on a mis-aligned drive that won't boot on a properly aligned drive.

 

If you have tried more than one known working factory Atari boot disk that doesn't boot in your drive, then it seems like a head alignment problem at this point. They are tying to read. Many times old floppy drives that have been moved or shipped get banged around and misaligned. You need an alignment disk and an o-scope to do it right, but it is possible to do just by adjusting on-the-fly using a good factory Atari boot disk that boots on another drive. It shouldn't be too far out of alignment so only a slight adjustment usually will fix it. Don't try this unless you are confident that it is out of alignment and that you are capable of adjusting it.

 

How would you go about aligning the heads? I purhcased a 810 that can not format disks. The drive steps back to the outer part of the disk then steps to the inner part, but once it gets very close to the inner ring it stops. The drive keeps on spinnig without stepping back, and I get an error 138. Or something to that effect. I read up on the error and it is supposed to be a communication error. About a minute after the error shows up on the screen, I see the drive head step back towards the outside of the floppy disk, but after a while of stepping back it completely stops rotating. What could be the problem? I have an SIO2PC that I built, so I am loading disk images using APE. Is there an image of a Disk Diagnostic Tool? I used Sparta DOS Utilities to check the drive RPM and adjusted it to 288-289RPM. I do not have any disks with programs or that are properly formatted, to test if it is able to read. Any help or tips, would be greatly appreciated.

 

PS, I forgot to mention that my 810 appears to be the early model with no additional board sitting above the drive read/write head.

[rtechone]

I have good DD disk, that I use on some older Music Equiptment and also on an Apple IIe. The disks are in good shape as they work with about three different Synth/Sampler and the apple. I got the RPM program to work using the disk that I was trying to format. I tried to format the disk with OS2.0S, 2.5(using format single option) and with the Sparta DOS included with the latest APE software. When I try to format with Sparta DOS utilities(INITX)it does the same thing but it reports a different error code.

 

When I stated that I did not have good disks, I meant Atari formatted Disk or Program disks.

 

You say that you do not have any disks that are known to be good? How did you set the RPM without a disk? Be careful to use only 360K, DD diskettes. HD diskettes will not work. What DOS are you using in APE?

 

Bob

 

After cleaning the head (only one on each of these drives) and checking cables and connections...if it still doesn't work...

 

Are you using a factory formated disk or one that someone else formated? I have received disks formated by someone on a mis-aligned drive that won't boot on a properly aligned drive.

 

If you have tried more than one known working factory Atari boot disk that doesn't boot in your drive, then it seems like a head alignment problem at this point. They are tying to read. Many times old floppy drives that have been moved or shipped get banged around and misaligned. You need an alignment disk and an o-scope to do it right, but it is possible to do just by adjusting on-the-fly using a good factory Atari boot disk that boots on another drive. It shouldn't be too far out of alignment so only a slight adjustment usually will fix it. Don't try this unless you are confident that it is out of alignment and that you are capable of adjusting it.

 

How would you go about aligning the heads? I purhcased a 810 that can not format disks. The drive steps back to the outer part of the disk then steps to the inner part, but once it gets very close to the inner ring it stops. The drive keeps on spinnig without stepping back, and I get an error 138. Or something to that effect. I read up on the error and it is supposed to be a communication error. About a minute after the error shows up on the screen, I see the drive head step back towards the outside of the floppy disk, but after a while of stepping back it completely stops rotating. What could be the problem? I have an SIO2PC that I built, so I am loading disk images using APE. Is there an image of a Disk Diagnostic Tool? I used Sparta DOS Utilities to check the drive RPM and adjusted it to 288-289RPM. I do not have any disks with programs or that are properly formatted, to test if it is able to read. Any help or tips, would be greatly appreciated.

 

PS, I forgot to mention that my 810 appears to be the early model with no additional board sitting above the drive read/write head.

[erazmus]

Have you checked and lubricated the drive rails? There's a pair of rails that the head assembly slides back and forth. You may want to try cleaning these rails and placing a very small amount of lubricant to the rails. As mentioned before, you should try cleaning the head (only one head on a single sided drive). If you're careful, some isopropyl alcohol on a lint-free wipe on the head surface should clean it - you can gently lift the pressure-pad assembly up off of the head (this has a felt pad on it that pushes against the opposite side of the disk) - just be careful not to over-extend and bend the spring that holds it in place. Another problem I have found in my 810s is the disk eject mechanism - it's a piece of plastic that gets pushed in by the front side of the disk as it's placed in the drive. When the disk is ejected, it pushes the disk out of the drive. This piece of plastic runs on a small rail. A small amount of lubrication on this rail will make disk ejects more reliable.

[BillC]

After cleaning the head (only one on each of these drives) and checking cables and connections...if it still doesn't work...

 

Are you using a factory formated disk or one that someone else formated? I have received disks formated by someone on a mis-aligned drive that won't boot on a properly aligned drive.

 

If you have tried more than one known working factory Atari boot disk that doesn't boot in your drive, then it seems like a head alignment problem at this point. They are tying to read. Many times old floppy drives that have been moved or shipped get banged around and misaligned. You need an alignment disk and an o-scope to do it right, but it is possible to do just by adjusting on-the-fly using a good factory Atari boot disk that boots on another drive. It shouldn't be too far out of alignment so only a slight adjustment usually will fix it. Don't try this unless you are confident that it is out of alignment and that you are capable of adjusting it.

 

How would you go about aligning the heads? I purhcased a 810 that can not format disks. The drive steps back to the outer part of the disk then steps to the inner part, but once it gets very close to the inner ring it stops. The drive keeps on spinnig without stepping back, and I get an error 138. Or something to that effect. I read up on the error and it is supposed to be a communication error. About a minute after the error shows up on the screen, I see the drive head step back towards the outside of the floppy disk, but after a while of stepping back it completely stops rotating. What could be the problem? I have an SIO2PC that I built, so I am loading disk images using APE. Is there an image of a Disk Diagnostic Tool? I used Sparta DOS Utilities to check the drive RPM and adjusted it to 288-289RPM. I do not have any disks with programs or that are properly formatted, to test if it is able to read. Any help or tips, would be greatly appreciated.

 

PS, I forgot to mention that my 810 appears to be the early model with no additional board sitting above the drive read/write head.

Your problem could also be the power supply board is failing.

 

According to Best Electronics the power supply boards in the early non-analog board 810s are 100% prone to failure, the analog board is the board attached to the top of the mechanism in the later drives. The connection to the R/W head is on the analog board in my recently acquired 810(thanks Bob), so I would assume it would be on the power board of pre-analog 810s. This means that a failure of the power board could be in the +5V or +12V supplies, or in the R/W circuitry.

 

Best mentions the failure rate in their description of part# CB101128, a power board/analog board upgrade for $25.00.

 

According to some FAQs I found, this part number was supposed to be for a "Grass Valley Analog Board Set" upgrade for "Pre-Analog" 810 drives. This board set was supposed to include the Data Separator board, the 810 ROM C, and the power board/analog board upgrades.

 

Bill

[tschak909]

I always wondered, why do they call it the "Analog Board?"

 

I know that the major addition to 810's after 1981 was the data separator, but what else did the analog boards provide?

 

-Thom

[Bryan]

I always wondered, why do they call it the "Analog Board?"

 

I know that the major addition to 810's after 1981 was the data separator, but what else did the analog boards provide?

 

-Thom

Since the 810 uses a bare mechanism instead of a complete drive assembly (as was used in PC's) the drive-head circuitry had to be provided by Atari. This circuitry had to translate between digital signals and appropriate analog signals for reading and writing to magnetic media. Atari eventually put this circuitry on an isolated board on top of the drive.

[tschak909]

*nod* I figured, but was this so that there would be an appropriate place in the signal path to place a data separator?

 

-Thom

[BillC]

*nod* I figured, but was this so that there would be an appropriate place in the signal path to place a data separator?

 

-Thom

The data separator board and the analog board upgrades have nothing to do with each other other than the fact that, since the power/analog board update came later, an 810 manufactured with one also had the data separator board.

 

The data separator board plugs into the 1771 FDC socket on the side board, and was used in 810s both with and without the analog board.

 

Bill

[erazmus]

Does anyone recognize this modification? I recently acquired two 810 drives, and both of them had this modification. There's no label on the EPROM. I'd like to find details and a schematic on this mod so that I can clean it up.

[BillC]

Does anyone recognize this modification? I recently acquired two 810 drives, and both of them had this modification. There's no label on the EPROM. I'd like to find details and a schematic on this mod so that I can clean it up.

I have never seen it before but it may be a Happy Computer 810 Upgrade, their first product. It matches the general description found on Wikipedia, link.

 

You could try version 5.3 of the Happy Warp Speed software, available from Atarimania, link, to see they are recognized as Happy drives.

 

Bill

[erazmus]

Does anyone recognize this modification? I recently acquired two 810 drives, and both of them had this modification. There's no label on the EPROM. I'd like to find details and a schematic on this mod so that I can clean it up.

I have never seen it before but it may be a Happy Computer 810 Upgrade, their first product. It matches the general description found on Wikipedia, link.

 

You could try version 5.3 of the Happy Warp Speed software, available from Atarimania, link, to see they are recognized as Happy drives.

 

Bill

Interesting theory - thanks for the Wikipedia link - I learned two things: I didn't know that their first mod was point-to-point wired on the board, and I didn't know the founder was Scott Adams' brother.

 

Does anyone have a picture of an official Happy modification to an 810? The mods on my drives are very messy, and I'd like to clean them up. But if this turns out to be an actual Happy-performed upgrade (even messy like it is) I want to keep it that way.

[erazmus]

Does anyone recognize this modification? I recently acquired two 810 drives, and both of them had this modification. There's no label on the EPROM. I'd like to find details and a schematic on this mod so that I can clean it up.

I have never seen it before but it may be a Happy Computer 810 Upgrade, their first product. It matches the general description found on Wikipedia, link.

 

You could try version 5.3 of the Happy Warp Speed software, available from Atarimania, link, to see they are recognized as Happy drives.

 

Bill

The software you pointed to confirms that this is indeed a Happy upgrade. Now I just need to find out if it's 'factory' or something someone's wired themselves. If it's original, I'd like to leave it. However, if it's a home made job, I'd like to tidy it up a bit.

 

Thanks for your help.