"Dungeon Monster" game on the way

[Sheddy]

I would not want to tell anyone how to run their business either. ? But yes, cheap download works too. Probably a good business model especially now it is so common with mobile and tablet, which has made more demand for it.

I would die of starvation if I didn't have another job, so am glad to just share things that have no material cost to me?

[Mclaneinc]

And we appreciate that work.....Thank you..

 

Paul.

[peteym5]

I never intended to get into debate about how games are to be sold, that is really up to the author and publisher to decide. I asked if the programmer behind Dungeon Masters are intending to market their game, but they may be keeping things internal among themselves if they plan on releasing it. I also suggested ideals of using Project-M or Numen for the 3D Dungeon view. I had not even decided if I am going to make a AD&D RPG style game myself because I am tied up with several games already. I already have Secretum Labyrinth engine. Someone did point out, if you have a good core source code, you can make several RPG Adventure type games each with a different story. Make new games as you are also making optimizing and making additions to the engine, and I am doing just that.

 

I know those games written in Turbo Basic has some limitations that does not leave a lot of room to do anything extensive involving D&D style game. That is where having some routines in ML can help, can set up something that can large read/write arrays of integer values in a fraction of memory used by Basic. These games do require large amounts of data, something I would avoid doing is using READ and DATA statements and saving values into a variable array defined with DIM. If you can POKE values into memory or string, then save that into a file, you leave more space open. Just load the file and use PEEK to access the values. ML, read by LDY index LDA PaulsTable,Y.

 

Its is no secret that large AD&D RPGs require large data arrays. Having good graphics to present what is going on, also requires large chunks of system resources. Programmer(s) need to find balance. This stuff is better if a team can be assembled who can work off the same page.

[Tezz]

Everything I do here in the Atari community is free and always will be, life is too short. I'm not motivated by money, I'm motivated by pushing the A8 and the enjoyment of coding and creativity. Hopefully also the games that are released are enjoyed by everyone too. Yes it's a lot of investment of my time but IT'S A HOBBY

GR8 was not a software house, it was a venture setup by Nosty simply to produce high quality physical releases for the community just covering the cost of production, not for profit. I requested personally in the production that I was involved in that if there was any money accumulated over the cost of production by chance that my part was donated to charity.

[Mclaneinc]

Thank you Tezz, as with all the devs, we appreciate the games but also the time and effort used to give us great gifts.....

[Mclaneinc]

 

Its is no secret that large AD&D RPGs require large data arrays. Having good graphics to present what is going on, also requires large chunks of system resources. Programmer(s) need to find balance. This stuff is better if a team can be assembled who can work off the same page.

 

Good luck in finding some like minded folk who want to work together, it could be an epic production..

[peteym5]

If people want to give away something for free, it is up to them. Does not mean everyone has to. I do spend some time with improving the graphics and overall quality of software I write. I do try pushing the boundary of what the Atari can do as long as it does not crash or even has minor glitches. After all if it looks good, it draws attention and helps sell the product.

 

Something that goes on with these Adventure type Role Playing Games is how functional are things inside the game. How many different items you need to collect and use to get through the game? The 2600 Adventure, you had 3 keys, sword, magnet, bridge, and the chalice. Had 3 dragons and bat to deal with. You can make the "world" larger, but you just be making the player go through more screens, can get dull really quick. So we can start by adding more keys, and enemies to fight. Can add a final boss dragon you need to kill to get the chalice. AD&D you start adding in skill levels, hit points, character attributes,etc.

 

Have stuff items in the game you need to defeat certain enemies. Like Kryptonite to defeat an evil Super Kryptonian. Legend of Zelda, they had like a flute to defeat that big circle thing with an eye in the middle. Another you had to feed bombs and give it bad gas. Maybe holy water to defeat some demonic type character. Examples go on and on....

 

Well I acquired a new team to help check the software, do some art, and other support. I have been looking for someone who knows something about Role Playing Games and Advance Dungeons & Dragons. I can do do some research and come up with stuff myself, but I am the main program coder doing this as a hobby.

[peteym5]

I never came here to discuss sales figures. However, last quarter had sold more games than the first quarter of 2017. Over the last year, had several months with double digit unit sales. I cannot disclose exact amounts, and I do not want to jinx anything.

 

I am working out what I am doing for future games and the next Secretum Labyrinth game. I cannot say everything that I will be doing with Dark Castles yet because I don't even know, things are changing everyday I work on it.

[peteym5]

I am really like to keep to the main focus about Dungeon Monster, Dungeon Hunt, those listed Turbobasic games, and using some of the programming, fonts, graphics data for an Role Playing Game with some AD&D elements. With those set ups, can there be enough text lines above or below to display detailed information and texts? Maybe change to a split screen like I did with Secretum Labyrinth Kings Gold to display like the texts from scrolls when you encounter them. I use what I did as an example of a top down with many separate screens. I thought about a top down scrolling view set up, but its not always easy to keep the player/missile graphics aligned. Now you are going to need room for all your graphics and the data for the Role Playing Game section. Computers with extended RAM, loading chunks as needed from disk, or using bank switching cartridges are the choices for larger games.

 

Now Secretum Labyrinth Kings Gold is still a free download, don't see what more people can ask for. The cartridge is available with more data for screens, sprites, texts, and treasures to provide some incentive for collectors. So lets not talk about sales or downloads anymore.

[peteym5]

Atari best programmers (like Tezz and Vega) use to release their games for free.

Sometimes awesome boxed editions for collectors are made.

The latest example of this good Atari scene practice is Laura, free to download and now on sale ($31):

laura_edycja2.png

 

In this Tempest Elite video, you can see Video61's current clam shell package. I think it looks great. Some people do keep the packaging, some resale the game on Ebay. Some dispose of the packaging.

 

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-25-UGC-Universal-Game-Cases-for-Super-Nintendo-Nintendo-64-Genesis/263553218253?hash=item3d5cfef6cd:g:x1QAAOSwBLlVF9lA

http://thevideostoreshopper.com/universal-game-case/universal-game-case-%7C-full-sleeve-insert/

 

I have been reviewing these "universal cartridge protractor cases" myself. Just about the only ones I had been finding that can hold different cartridge sizes. What does everyone else think about them? We may turn ideal down for using them for the 8-bit. Does anybody know of something that is more fitting to the 8-bit cartridge sizes? I know Sal sold the first run of Tempest Xtreme inside something like Super Nintendo Cases. The bottom line is that the Clam Shells work the best.

 

The cases will however be more ideal for larger cartridges like those for the Sega Geneses, Atari Jaguar, NES, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Atari 5200. CD/DVD systems, Maybe 2600/7800.

 

Problems are that I am not sure how tight the smaller 8-bit cartridges fit between those tables without adding something to hold it in place. Another issue is that someone will need to order in a bulk of 100 just to get under $1 per unit.

 

I am just the programmer for this stuff, I deal with the most important and valuable part of it, THE GAME!. Let retro game stores like Atari Sales, Atari Age, GR8 that publish these deal with packaging. So if you do have an issue of how they do stuff, please contact them.

Edited April 7, 2018 by peteym5

[+Philsan]

Sometimes I have the sensation you don't understand what people write.

 

You wrote "if Tezz and Vega need help on putting together a good AD&D Dungeons and Dragons style part and would like assistance. I can offer some help. I am pretty sure others will also. Are they planning to sell their software?"

 

I replied that "Atari best programmers (like Tezz and Vega) use to release their games for free. Sometimes awesome boxed editions for collectors are made".

 

In other words, I only informed you that almost all Atari programmers don't sell their games and if they do it, they make very good packages.

Tezz confirmed that he doesn't sell his games.

 

I don't have any issue on how you publish your games, it's your business. I only say that a good package is appreciated by people.

[peteym5]

Not ALL programmers give their stuff away for free and that is up to them. We put a lot of hard work in this stuff. There seems to be more people selling stuff for the 5200/7800/Jaguar cartridges because they want something for their cartridge base system. Can say the same for Nintendo, Sega, Coleco, Intellivsion, retro game forums also. Seems to be a lot less bashing when people want to sell it their game. When I was doing some 5200/7800 porting, no one asked if they can download it, more people are interested in when can I have it done.

 

Seeing what is more related to the subject of RPGs and AD&D games, I can see there is some interest and is something I would like to work together with other people on. Some had already sent me PMs. It is also redirecting me with putting together my next Secretum Labyrinth project together with adding several more AD&D like elements.

Edited April 7, 2018 by peteym5

[+Philsan]

Not ALL programmers give their stuff away for free and that is up to them. We put a lot of hard work in this stuff. There seems to be more people selling stuff for the 5200/7800/Jaguar cartridges because they want something for their cartridge base system. Can say the same for Nintendo, Sega, Coleco, Intellivsion, retro game forums also. Seems to be a lot less bashing when people sell it on cartridge only.

 

Seeing what is more related to the subject of RPGs and AD&D games, I can see there is some interest and is something I would like to work together with other people on. Some had already sent me PMs. It is also redirecting me with putting together my next Secretum Labyrinth project together with adding several more AD&D like elements.

 

As I wrote in the past, I am talking about A8 scene, not other Atari platforms or Nintendo, Sega...

Almost all Atari (Atari 8 bit computers) programmers don't sell their games. It's a fact.

 

But obviously you can do what you want with your work, it's your business (as written in my previous post).

I don't want to change your mind.

I said that a good package is appreciated. Tempest Elite's label seems better than previous ones. Good! I would like a nice box too, to place it on the shelf.

 

Is that clear?

[peteym5]

It is clear and I apologize for any misunderstandings. I am working with Video61 to see if it is necessary and if there is a cost effective ways to improve the clear clam shell packaging he currently using. Will it improve sales? Hard to say. From experience, probably get one or two extra people buying, but most people are interested in playing the game itself. If I were to invest in printed material or custom packaging for one game, I would not invest in anything beyond 100 units because that is around the most that will sell. However since I do multiple games, can do one universal case, and someone like Video61 or Albert can also.

 

Now I am busy working on my Adventure Game projects while working a job the requires me to work over time, so I probably will not have much time respond to anything not relating to what I am dealing. Chances are I am going to ignore most of the bashing.

 

I did ask about if people porting Dungeon Monster over are interesting in selling because I would certainly not take anyone else programming and sell it without their permission, unless it was something freely out in the open. Also much of the programming freely provided, I have to alter for what I need for the game. Works the other way around, if I were to bring in other programmers, I would take security measures so they won't run off with anything I do and sell/give away stuff I programmed without my permission.

[Paul Westphal]

It helps quite a bit when it sits proudly on their shelf.

 

[+Philsan]

Pete, I think that more than one or two extra persons would buy your games if they had a nice package.

 

People like games on the shelf.

 

For example, you could ask the cost of Laura's plastic box.

I don't think it costs a lot of money, considered the fact the game is sold for $34.

 

 

[peteym5]

Alright, it is an actual box you guys want so it can be stacked neatly on your shelf. I have been under the impression you guys did not like the label because we did not use glossy paper, did not like the art, or a full color printed manual. I know you are not looking for a free copy of the game either. However, to make some of this extra stuff could affect the overall price of the game, could be an extra fee people will need to pay. Something that goes on with some businesses is that they order large quantities of bulk materials ahead of time to save money. They may have long term agreements with suppliers. So looks like the games coming from Video 61 will be in clam shells for a while longer.

 

It is as I had stated I only be involved with the program part, I am mainly concern about what is happening when the cartridge is plugged in or what happens after it is loaded from disk.

[VladR]

However, to make some of this extra stuff could affect the overall price of the game, could be an extra fee people will need to pay.

Wait, what ? Could ?

 

Why would you even consider paying for somebody else's irrational box fetish ?

 

Just transfer the amount it cost to produce the box directly to the end price. If the box&manual cost you $27.35 to obtain, then increase the total price by $27.35. If the box run was small and it cost $41.25 per box, well then increase the price by $41.25.

 

I don't understand why would you do otherwise ?

[peteym5]

The current price for most of my games is $39.95 unless they are on AtariMax or 128K XEGS. Free shipping USA. I am not sure if the others mentioned what the shipping charges are. Currently Video61 is using the clear clam shell. Been privately discussing several ideals with him. But if you have any ideals of your own, where to find materials, and other concerns, you need to contact Video61 since he is handling the publishing and assembly of the packaging. I do not want to do anything to raise the final price of the game. I don't have a whole lot of time to look into packaging and pricing. Only thing I found were these boxes, cheapest price I could find. They are also great for collectors that have loose media around that want to put them on their sheif.

 

Now we have been getting off subject here. I am a programmer looking to make better adventure games on the 8-bit. RPG / AD&D style. Turned based or Live Action. I had considered this Dungeon Monster style and see if the programmers were interested in teaming up along with Video61 selling the cartridge form of the final game. If they want to have it available for download, it is up to them. I am also looking into using project-m or the Numen engine. I am also getting ideals on how to expand future Secretum Labyrinth games. Recently been getting the engine do many more different things and fit in same memory (RAM+Cart ROM.) Like having currency or specific devices you need to defeat specific enemies to go past.

Edited April 11, 2018 by peteym5

[+Philsan]

Laura's price is $34, domestic shipping included.

So, as written, I don't think their shells cost too much.

You could make two versions of yours games: normal and collectors edition.

Some of yours games are very good and they deserve a nice box.

Just my two cents...

[peteym5]

I can ask, but from what I understand, I am the only one asking Video61 about this. No one from here emailed or called Video61 about these matters. This would be a customer service issue and nothing technical relating to the software itself. We are getting frustrated about the nitpicking over the small stuff. So I will not be responding to anymore about packaging of my prior games. End of discussion.

Edited April 11, 2018 by peteym5

[Lord Thag]

I can ask, but from what I understand, I am the only one asking Video61 about this. No one from here emailed or called Video61 about these matters. This would be a customer service issue and nothing technical relating to the software itself. We are getting frustrated about the nitpicking over the small stuff. So I will not be responding to anymore about packaging of my prior games. End of discussion.

Can't say as I blame you. I've been pretty annoyed at some of the new game threads here, where someone releases (often for free) a new game and then it results in 5 pages of people nitpicking. That's pretty much a motivation killer, you know? People do this in their spare time, and you learn as you go, and very often your game will not be perfect (very few games were, even back in the 80s). If someone takes the time to make a playable game 40 years after a system's release... that's dedication. If you don't like it, don't play it.

 

People need to learn to say 'thanks!' and keep their negativity to themselves unless one of two things happens: 1. the programmer asks for feedback, beta testing etc. or 2. A paid product is not as advertised or broken in some way.

[+Philsan]

Perhaps you don't understand English.

 

Ask someone who knows English to confirm you that I gave you an advice, only in your best interest, using kind words.

There are many collectors who like nice packages.

 

Why are you so upset?

[tjlazer]

I don't care about the box or manuals but the Labels need improving. For $35+ it needs to have a half descent label. When I bought a bunch of games the first thing I did was rip off the labels and put on my own. This shouldn't cost tons of extra money.

[kiwilove]

Can't say as I blame you. I've been pretty annoyed at some of the new game threads here, where someone releases (often for free) a new game and then it results in 5 pages of people nitpicking. That's pretty much a motivation killer, you know? People do this in their spare time, and you learn as you go, and very often your game will not be perfect (very few games were, even back in the 80s). If someone takes the time to make a playable game 40 years after a system's release... that's dedication. If you don't like it, don't play it.

 

People need to learn to say 'thanks!' and keep their negativity to themselves unless one of two things happens: 1. the programmer asks for feedback, beta testing etc. or 2. A paid product is not as advertised or broken in some way.

 

This first comment is 'spot-on' - in that nitpickers may actually turn off some people from releasing their work here. The amount of time invested in finishing a project can be substantial. I personally don't want people to self censor their comments - as people should feel free to comment what they like to.

Of course - I don't expect everyone to agree. It is all too easy for some people to get the wrong impression by comment as such - when there was not the intention to be negative or condescending/etc...

 

Harvey