WTF is "Pasti"

[+wood_jl]

PASTI? This is *another* form of disk imaging? I can't find much info on it. From what little I did, it looks like the entire point of this is to preserve copy protection? WTF for? Even a PASTI copy itself would necessitate defeating the copy protection, so where's the moral in that? I don't get this.

 

However, if I download "a Pasti," can I turn it into a "standard" ST disk image format? To use it on a "real" ST, do I have to write it to a floppy? Anybody have experience with using these images with the HxC SD floppy emulator; that is, turning them into .HFE files.

 

Sorry to be so clueless. Searching turned up a thread about a failed STe floppy.

 

Thanks.

[+remowilliams]

http://pasti.fxatari.com/

 

'Pasti is a package of sotware tools for imaging and preservation of Atari software.'

 

Pasti is used for creating intact images of copy protected software, it is the ST equivalent of the A8 VAPI system. You can not at this time turn an STX image back into a physical floppy, as write back tools have not been released. Attempting to 'convert' an STX protected disk image into a regular one will result in a disk that no longer works as you have now lost the copy protection information. STX files can be used quite nicely in emulators such as Steem.

 

The HxC SD only has limited support for STX images, most will not work at this time.

[Ato]

Pasti images can only be used on Windows and Pasti seems to be closed source. So the value of it is questionable.

 

Cheers,

Thomas

[AstFan]

Pasti images can only be used on Windows and Pasti seems to be closed source. So the value of it is questionable.

It is very bad way to talk like it about something in fact very useful and unique in Atari ST universe.

You pointed on some negative aspects, but nothing about positive ones. What is wrong with Atari people ?

Can we talk reasonable and with little respect about things in which lot of time and effort is invested ?

 

So, I try to give answer: Pasti is special floppy imaging tool, image format, with purpose to hold some extra infos, mostly copy protection related ones. It is usable under certainly best Atari ST(E) emulator: Steem, + with Saint. The success rate of imagin is very high: over 99% of protected games work well on Steem.

 

Of course, most of games is cracked, so playable with usual floppy image formats as ST, MSA. But if prefer originals, Pasti is the only way in many cases (copy protected floppies).

 

I don't see as big flaw impossibility of write to floppies. It is just not possible anyway with regular HW (floppy drives and controllers) in ST(E) and PC computers.

 

Closed source is certainly bad thing, but maybe it will change soon, as some people working just right now on publishing specs, and adding Pasti support to Hatari.

 

There are over 1000 diverse game Pasti images available on WEB - it self says that it is useful and popular.

[+orpheuswaking]

I've actually been trying to make pasti images with varying success to add to the atarimania ST database. They all work extremely well in STeam, I just prefer to use real hardware.

 

I guess it's the equivelent to VAPI on the 8bits. (Which I'm going to work on making some images also)

[tjlazer]

Wish there was a way to write back a pasti image to real disk.

[+orpheuswaking]

Would be cool... or at least be loadable from HxC or Satandisk

[AstFan]

Wish there was a way to write back a pasti image to real disk.

 

It is not possible with regular Ataris or PCs. What you think what is copy protection ? The whole point is to make such floppy what can be readen, but can not be written on computer. So, there will be never some SW what can write Pasti images onto floppies on regular ST or PC.

If you want at all costs to copy games, get some special HW for that. It is nothing new.

 

Considering HxC: maybe in nearer future ... If work on reverse engineering of Pasti will success.

[MoonTurtle]

I need help usng Pasti on Steem,(Atari ST emulator) I have the ""Pasti.DLL, but I don't know where to put it, am I supposed to put it in System32? (I'm using Windows 10, Steem v3.2)

[6BQ5]

The Pasti format is a double sided sword. On the one hand, it's a nice way to preserve software but on the other hand there's no way to transfer the preserved software to a real disk to run on a real machine as intended.

 

In general it is possible to write copy protected images back to a floppy. I remember I had a Discovery Cartridge way back when and I could make copies of copy protected software. It must have read the magnetic flux from the disk, bypassing the OS, and writes the same magnetic flux back regardless of CRC errors or invalid formats. Could such a device be made today? Of course! Look at all the devices we have today like UltraSatan and NetUSBee. Would it be easy? Probably not ... but those other devices weren't easy either.

 

With so many other things to do on our ST machines I don't get too worried about Pasti files.

[darwinmac]

To answer MoonTurtles question, I believe you put the Pasti DLL in the same directory as the Steem executable. As I recall, you also need to tell Steem that it can use Pasti files.

 

For those of us who will not own an ST in the future, Pasti files are one way to run uncracked software in our emulators.

 

Since I own a Mac, I use Hatari which has built-in Pasti support. However, for most Windows users, Steem provides an easier setup and experience.

 

Bob C

[256 colors]

Pasti dunno Pasted when you spend entire night down the pub

[ijor]

The Pasti format is a double sided sword. On the one hand, it's a nice way to preserve software but on the other hand there's no way to transfer the preserved software to a real disk to run on a real machine as intended.

In theory Pasti images can be written back, at least most of them. There isn't just a public available software to do that. It is not trivial at all but it is definitely possible. I have some experimental software but need to find some time to develop something more complete for a public release.

 

In general it is possible to write copy protected images back to a floppy. I remember I had a Discovery Cartridge way back when and I could make copies of copy protected software. It must have read the magnetic flux from the disk, bypassing the OS, and writes the same magnetic flux back regardless of CRC errors or invalid formats. Could such a device be made today?

There are a couple of modern devices for the PC. The SCP and the Kryoflux. They are USB devices that work with an external drive. Before them, there was also the Catweasel that was an internal ISA or PCI card.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Well, I most complain here, because this notes of imaging SW author may be misleading. "that work with an external drive" - that may make someone thinking that external USB drive can be used. But we know that such devices can not handle even usual Atari non-protected floppy formats, like 800 KB.

What is actually needed is floppy drive in good condition (and that may be problem now) , power for it - some need +12V beside +5V and one of specialized copy devices - like mentioned SCP or Kryoflux. And PC, of course.

 

But, and this talk goes on for many years - will we see that SW in near future ? In some 5 years from now ? If not, then better forget whole thing, because floppy disks have no future. It is already problem to find disks in good condition, and will be just worse. Especially as copy protections need better quality of magnetic surface. + may need drive in better shape.

 

What has future. and is actually not hard to make - and it may be that is actually already done: device what can act as floppy drive when reading those SCP or Kryflux images. Yeah, that would be HW floppy emulator, just on more accurate level than HxC and Gotek. And working with larger image files, but that's not problem with today SD card capacity.

Here must say that it will not work with STX (Pasti) images, at least not with some %-age of them, what depends from invested time in support for it.

That has future. And it may happen that need for STX images will decrease as more and more titles are imaged in SCP and KryFlux - as I see first one is where it goes better, probably because no some (silly) legal restrictions. And to add, that situation is already changed. There are many STX images online, which are not created with Pasti imaging tool, but converted from SCP images. So, interest for writing STX images onto floppies is already lower.

 

And something most likely just idea, what will be hardly done: for accessing those 'flux' images best way would be to make new type of FDC chip in Atari ST, or better in it's clones. We have already FPGA clones, and that could be done on FPGA, of course. That would result in no need for specialized HW floppy emulator, and images could be on same SD card as others. Surely pretty much hard task, but I think that ijor should think rather about it than SW for writing STX images onto floppies

[ijor]

And something most likely just idea, what will be hardly done: for accessing those 'flux' images best way would be to make new type of FDC chip in Atari ST, or better in it's clones. We have already FPGA clones, and that could be done on FPGA, of course. That would result in no need for specialized HW floppy emulator, and images could be on same SD card as others. Surely pretty much hard task, but I think that ijor should think rather about it than SW for writing STX images onto floppies

 

May be you are not aware, but I already implemented something like that:

 

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=34554&sid=eb041360cce46c92f7de7c8ec7b432ad

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Great. I don't follow AF, so yes, was not aware about it. My FPGA time will come soon, so will follow it