bohoki Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 technically the driving controller is digital it has 16 positions and is like an encoded binary code by using different combinations of U,D,L,R Slightly more technically (or pedantically), the driving controller outputs only four distinct values and uses only two of the control lines. It's a two-bit encoder. However, it does repeat those four values four times in one rotation. i never really knew how that worked all i knew is if i had a joystick plugged in for indy 500 i could get it to go up and right if i waggled the stick so basically it repeats 00 01 10 11 over and over and depending on the last postition it knows to either go clockwise or counter clockwise i thought it actually knew which way the car was depending on the dial i guess that would have been too complex for atari so in reality indy 500 just starts the cars aiming in the proper direction and what ever position the driving wheels are in at that time are noted and it only notes counting up or counting down hmm i wonder what its sampling rate is if i could beat it if i hooked up a drill to the shaft and time the rpm to calculate it when it looses sync Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I know about masterplay but impossible to find. Anyhow I don't need digital working on 5200 I need analog. So I'm a little confused somebody help clerify please? Wico is analog. But 9 pin just like 2600. So with a y cable if I plug in a wico it should work aside from keypad which I can use the original stock controller for? Or is 2600 versions of wico digital and not analog there fore making it not compatible? Anyhow sinse wico at least 5200 version is analog then any 9 pin analog stick should plug into the y cable with out a masterplay right? No need for an adapter right? Or does the wico stick have something built in to make it work and its not the cable doing the work? If the cable does the conversion then any 9 pin analog stick should work if I get a y cable right sinse it has a 9 pin plug? Or am I missing something? As for the stuff when it arrives I'll let you all know. He shipped monday and so by tomorrow or day after hopefulluy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohoki Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 I know about masterplay but impossible to find. Anyhow I don't need digital working on 5200 I need analog. So I'm a little confused somebody help clerify please? Wico is analog. But 9 pin just like 2600. So with a y cable if I plug in a wico it should work aside from keypad which I can use the original stock controller for? Or is 2600 versions of wico digital and not analog there fore making it not compatible? Anyhow sinse wico at least 5200 version is analog then any 9 pin analog stick should plug into the y cable with out a masterplay right? No need for an adapter right? Or does the wico stick have something built in to make it work and its not the cable doing the work? If the cable does the conversion then any 9 pin analog stick should work if I get a y cable right sinse it has a 9 pin plug? Or am I missing something? As for the stuff when it arrives I'll let you all know. He shipped monday and so by tomorrow or day after hopefulluy. wico was being a dick and just used the old 9 pin molds it has been confusing for 25 years people plugging it to 2600 and wondering why it wont work people plugging in 2600 sticks in the y cord and the keypad and wondering why it dont work and wico is out of buisness so you cant call and complain anymore they did make neat arcade components though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 technically the driving controller is digital it has 16 positions and is like an encoded binary code by using different combinations of U,D,L,R Slightly more technically (or pedantically), the driving controller outputs only four distinct values and uses only two of the control lines. It's a two-bit encoder. However, it does repeat those four values four times in one rotation. i never really knew how that worked all i knew is if i had a joystick plugged in for indy 500 i could get it to go up and right if i waggled the stick so basically it repeats 00 01 10 11 over and over and depending on the last postition it knows to either go clockwise or counter clockwise i thought it actually knew which way the car was depending on the dial i guess that would have been too complex for atari so in reality indy 500 just starts the cars aiming in the proper direction and what ever position the driving wheels are in at that time are noted and it only notes counting up or counting down hmm i wonder what its sampling rate is if i could beat it if i hooked up a drill to the shaft and time the rpm to calculate it when it looses sync Yep, that's about the size of it. Actually, it sequences 00 01 11 10 (search "Gray code" for more info). From one state to the next, no more than one bit changes. That actually makes it quite simple to mechanically generate the sequence as you can see if you open up a driving controller. It would certainly be possible for the 2600 to read a 4 bit encoder as you described earlier, but the cost of such a device would probably be much higher than the simple rotary switch that was used. But, it would free up CPU time since the value could be read directly when needed with no need to rapidly poll the controller to avoid missing state changes. I imagine that some of the guys who hacked games to use the driving controller could tell you what the practical sampling rate is within a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tz101 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I know about masterplay but impossible to find. I just received my Master Play clone from Probos8. It betters the Master Play by allowing two button fire support compared to only one on the original MP. Only thing is you need a working Wico "Y" cable to use it. It works great with my Sega Master System arcade stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I know about masterplay but impossible to find. Anyhow I don't need digital working on 5200 I need analog. So I'm a little confused somebody help clerify please? Wico is analog. But 9 pin just like 2600. So with a y cable if I plug in a wico it should work aside from keypad which I can use the original stock controller for? Or is 2600 versions of wico digital and not analog there fore making it not compatible? Anyhow sinse wico at least 5200 version is analog then any 9 pin analog stick should plug into the y cable with out a masterplay right? No need for an adapter right? Or does the wico stick have something built in to make it work and its not the cable doing the work? If the cable does the conversion then any 9 pin analog stick should work if I get a y cable right sinse it has a 9 pin plug? Or am I missing something? As for the stuff when it arrives I'll let you all know. He shipped monday and so by tomorrow or day after hopefulluy. wico was being a dick and just used the old 9 pin molds it has been confusing for 25 years people plugging it to 2600 and wondering why it wont work people plugging in 2600 sticks in the y cord and the keypad and wondering why it dont work and wico is out of buisness so you cant call and complain anymore they did make neat arcade components though But 2600 sticks were digital. So they won't work with y cable. But if I use an analog 9 pin stick its worth a try isn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='0078265317' date='Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:24 PM' timestamp='1295493841' post='2187926' But 2600 sticks were digital. So they won't work with y cable. But if I use an analog 9 pin stick its worth a try isn't it. No, you need a WICO stick for the 5200. It is wired for the 5200 / Wico Y cable or Wico Keyboard. I don't know of any other analog 9 pin joystick. Even if there was I don't think it would be wired same as Wico. Maybe whats got you confused is this home made digital to analog device that uses a Wico Y adapter. It seems they wired that device to match the Y cable, thats all. You are right about this: If you have a wico Y cable, you plug the analog 9 pin wico in one end, the stock controler in another. Analog control and fire buttons on the wico stick, function buttons on the stock controller. **My bad about the driving controller. It makes sense to be digital, thats how it can keep spinning forever I guess. ***when i edit this post it shows his quote correct but when I save changes it shows me quoting myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='0078265317' date='Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:24 PM' timestamp='1295493841' post='2187926' But 2600 sticks were digital. So they won't work with y cable. But if I use an analog 9 pin stick its worth a try isn't it. No, you need a WICO stick for the 5200. It is wired for the 5200 / Wico Y cable or Wico Keyboard. I don't know of any other analog 9 pin joystick. Even if there was I don't think it would be wired same as Wico. Maybe whats got you confused is this home made digital to analog device that uses a Wico Y adapter. It seems they wired that device to match the Y cable, thats all. You are right about this: If you have a wico Y cable, you plug the analog 9 pin wico in one end, the stock controler in another. Analog control and fire buttons on the wico stick, function buttons on the stock controller. **My bad about the driving controller. It makes sense to be digital, thats how it can keep spinning forever I guess. ***when i edit this post it shows his quote correct but when I save changes it shows me quoting myself! So you are saying that even if I plugg in an analog 9 pin stick it may not work with the wico y cable cuz not all 9 pin analog are wired the same? You mean the shape of the pins or the order of the pins (where number 1 goes etc)? And aren't 2600 wicos analog or only 5200 ones were analog and 2600 wicos were digital? Edited January 20, 2011 by 78265317 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohoki Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 So you are saying that even if I plugg in an analog 9 pin stick it may not work with the wico y cable cuz not all 9 pin analog are wired the same? You mean the shape of the pins or the order of the pins (where number 1 goes etc)? And aren't 2600 wicos analog or only 5200 ones were analog and 2600 wicos were digital? our point of contention is what analog 9 pin joystick you are refering to because we only know of one which is the "wico at5200" one so by constantly harping on about analog and digital it is annoying just have a specific name for the item you are refering to in general you can lump all 2600 coompatable sticks as a 2600 stick the only other 9 pin analog joystick is for the apple2 and it has a male connector so in order to fail at connecting one of those you would need a gender changer but like a wise man once said "you cant make things foolproof cause them fools are pretty ingenious" in the wild you will only encounter 2 aftermarket sticks for the 5200 the wico (buttplug) and the championship pro (not missle command compatable) there are a couple others that are so rare that after finding one you probably have just been struck by lightning won the lottery and were attacked by a shark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Wico for the 5200 is analog. Wico for 2600 is digital. The Y adapter only works with the wico analog controller designed for the 5200. If you dont have a Y adapter you can use the wico keypad made only for the 5200. Wico 5200 hardware: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1500 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I'm just about ready to wire some junk together(switches, an AUI port, etc) & try to make my own dang 5200 keypad. It will look like garbage, but it would be a fun weekend project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I'm just about ready to wire some junk together(switches, an AUI port, etc) & try to make my own dang 5200 keypad. It will look like garbage, but it would be a fun weekend project. It's pretty easy to wire up a standard 3x4 matrix keypad to do that job if somebody's not up to wiring up all of those individual switches. It is very satisfying to build something from scratch/scrap and seeing it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Official Ninja, on Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:35 PM, said: Wico for the 5200 is analog. Wico for 2600 is digital. The Y adapter only works with the wico analog controller designed for the 5200. If you dont have a Y adapter you can use the wico keypad made only for the 5200. That is all I needed to know thanks for the reply. Edited January 21, 2011 by 78265317 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 As for the stick I was just guessing cuz if there were one then that would be great. Otherwise I'm stuck with stock or trackball for missle command. As for mine Don't know if it is digital or analog. Its called freedom stick. The box has adapters for my nes and 2600. 9 pin just like 2600 and says 2600 on the box. But the stick moves all directions 360. So dont' know if it is digital. But stock 5200s suck and wico is hard to find. And trackball seems like it might be hard to use. But in any event regardless analog or digital I still need a 15 to 9 pin adapter. So 15 pin gameport won't work. Unless there is a 15 to 9 pin gender changer. Or anyone knows where to get a official masterplay and not a knockoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohoki Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 As for the stick I was just guessing cuz if there were one then that would be great. Otherwise I'm stuck with stock or trackball for missle command. As for mine Don't know if it is digital or analog. Its called freedom stick. The box has adapters for my nes and 2600. 9 pin just like 2600 and says 2600 on the box. But the stick moves all directions 360. So dont' know if it is digital. But stock 5200s suck and wico is hard to find. And trackball seems like it might be hard to use. But in any event regardless analog or digital I still need a 15 to 9 pin adapter. So 15 pin gameport won't work. Unless there is a 15 to 9 pin gender changer. Or anyone knows where to get a official masterplay and not a knockoff. so basically what you need is a wico 5200 y cable you dont need a 15 to 9 adapter because you also need a start button (except for robotron and mr do's castle) i dont know of any other game you can play without pressing start i wish you luck and good will on your journeys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yes I need wico y cable for start pause and reset. But if the stick turns out to be digital after all then it plug into the y cable. So I would need a 15 to 9 pin adapter to get it working. A y cable alone wont work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohoki Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yes I need wico y cable for start pause and reset. But if the stick turns out to be digital after all then it plug into the y cable. So I would need a 15 to 9 pin adapter to get it working. A y cable alone wont work. you are really confusing the hell out of me what is attached to the 15 pin and what is attached to the 9 on this adapter thingie you are wanting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Sorry for the confusion. I tried to draw the best I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohoki Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Sorry for the confusion. I tried to draw the best I can. wow that is some mighty fine art realy its very explanitory have you ever drawn a spider? ah so you want to plug some type of 9 pin controller into the 5200 which kind i have no idea and i gotta say you are gonna need more than a cord to do it ok now understanding your thought process i hope you see where things went wrong how are you supposed to start a game with your first drawing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodos8 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I know about masterplay but impossible to find. I just received my Master Play clone from Probos8. It betters the Master Play by allowing two button fire support compared to only one on the original MP. Only thing is you need a working Wico "Y" cable to use it. It works great with my Sega Master System arcade stick. I've actually made one that didn't require a wico y-cable for a member on here. He used a 15-wire pc joystick extension cable to hook it to the 5200. It had two 15-pin connectors one for the controller and one for the extension cable and a 9-pin connector for the 2600/Genny controller. I charged him extra since it took more time and parts to build. It worked just fine though and he liked it. Here's a pic of it: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 ok now understanding your thought process i hope you see where things went wrong how are you supposed to start a game with your first drawing? Well that is immiterial. Even if I have a wico y cable if my joystick is digital it won't function when plugged into the y cable. Because wico was analog. So a y cable alone won't do even if I had a start button. So either way I need masterplay to use the 9 pin stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I know about masterplay but impossible to find. I just received my Master Play clone from Probos8. It betters the Master Play by allowing two button fire support compared to only one on the original MP. Only thing is you need a working Wico "Y" cable to use it. It works great with my Sega Master System arcade stick. I've actually made one that didn't require a wico y-cable for a member on here. He used a 15-wire pc joystick extension cable to hook it to the 5200. It had two 15-pin connectors one for the controller and one for the extension cable and a 9-pin connector for the 2600/Genny controller. I charged him extra since it took more time and parts to build. It worked just fine though and he liked it. Here's a pic of it: Looks interesting. How much did you charge him for that adapter (minus shipping which we will calculate later). And could you build another one for me or are the supplys hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 ok now understanding your thought process i hope you see where things went wrong how are you supposed to start a game with your first drawing? Well that is immiterial. Even if I have a wico y cable if my joystick is digital it won't function when plugged into the y cable. Because wico was analog. So a y cable alone won't do even if I had a start button. So either way I need masterplay to use the 9 pin stick. Your joystick will not work in the wico Y adapter. You need a wico stick made for the 5200. It is analog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0078265317 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yes Well I have no idea what it is I have. I'm askin prodos8 to build me an adapter and then we will see what happens. If it doesn't work then we can argue soem more. But I have a feeling that is all I need to get started. And in the mean time I have 3 controllers comming and a trackball to get me started while I wait for the adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_ Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yes Well I have no idea what it is I have. I'm askin prodos8 to build me an adapter and then we will see what happens. If it doesn't work then we can argue soem more. But I have a feeling that is all I need to get started. And in the mean time I have 3 controllers comming and a trackball to get me started while I wait for the adapter. Argue? I was trying to be helpful.... Anyway, with the device from prodos8 I'm sure your joystick will work great. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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