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rocky007

Jaguar 2

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[quote name='rocky007' date='Wed Feb 9, 2011 7:37 PM' timestamp='1297280249' post='2205527']
wow : [ebay]220735054631[/ebay]

i dream of this, working on my TV ;)
[/quote]

Good luck with that as it dosn't work (missing a chip) and no Jag 2 games were ever made

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Eh...The world's first 'playstation spanker' is back

Sounds like there must be some floating around then (unless that buddybuddies one that he sold)

Shame that Atari weren't saved by a rich arab sheik or a russian olygarch (Chelski or Man City like), Atari could have wiped the floor clean with nintendo or sony Edited by carmel_andrews

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So much left to the imagination. Does anyone have any guesses where this would have fallen graphics wise in regards to other consoles? Between PS1 and PS2? N64? :? This is debatable but I think the Jag was just about up there with the PS1. Even if this isn't the case you would hope that the Jag 2 would be enough to overtake the PS1. Edited by GKC

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[quote name='carmel_andrews' date='Wed Feb 9, 2011 8:08 PM' timestamp='1297282124' post='2205557']
Eh...The world's first 'playstation spanker' is back

Sounds like there must be some floating around then (unless that buddybuddies one that he sold)

Shame that Atari weren't saved by a rich arab sheik or a russian olygarch (Chelski or Man City like), Atari could have wiped the floor clean with nintendo or sony
[/quote]

That is Buddy Buddies one. Curt Vendel has the other one that works.

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[quote name='GKC' date='Wed Feb 9, 2011 8:20 PM' timestamp='1297282823' post='2205567']
So much left to the imagination. Does anyone have any guesses where this would have fallen graphics wise in regards to other consoles? Between PS1 and PS2? N64? :? This is debatable but I think the Jag was just about up there with the PS1. Even if this isn't the case you would hope that the Jag 2 would be enough to overtake the PS1.
[/quote]

Yeah from looking at the specs it would have been alot more powerful than the PS1 but not as powerful as the PS2.

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[quote name='GKC' date='Wed Feb 9, 2011 8:20 PM' timestamp='1297282823' post='2205567']
So much left to the imagination. Does anyone have any guesses where this would have fallen graphics wise in regards to other consoles? Between PS1 and PS2? N64? :? This is debatable but I think the Jag was just about up there with the PS1. Even if this isn't the case you would hope that the Jag 2 would be enough to overtake the PS1.
[/quote]

In some ways it would be more flexible, but it would still have had trouble keeping up with the PS1.

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[quote name='The_Laird' date='Wed Feb 9, 2011 1:45 PM' timestamp='1297280759' post='2205534']
[quote name='rocky007' date='Wed Feb 9, 2011 7:37 PM' timestamp='1297280249' post='2205527']
wow : [ebay]220735054631[/ebay]

i dream of this, working on my TV ;)
[/quote]

Good luck with that as it dosn't work (missing a chip) and no Jag 2 games were ever made
[/quote]


yes it look that the main processor is missing....

for the games, i'm sure it exist somewhere some demo/beta working on it, or maybe development kit.

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Buddies actually owned both the working & non working boards. Well until somebody wins that auction! Shame that the non worker will forever remain that way! :0(

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Weren't the CPU schematics kicking about somewhere? You could always get them and program up an FPGA or some such. Have another working Jag 2.. with absolutely no software to run on it :)

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[quote name='LinkoVitch' date='Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:49 PM' timestamp='1297986592' post='2212836']
Weren't the CPU schematics kicking about somewhere? You could always get them and program up an FPGA or some such. Have another working Jag 2.. with absolutely no software to run on it :)
[/quote]

Gorf and somebody else did that a few years ago just to see what kind of performance it had.

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[quote name='remowilliams' date='Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:24 AM' timestamp='1298010245' post='2213135']
Gorf programmed an FPGA...

as a missing Jag 2 CPU...

And that happened when ?
[/quote]

Somebody else did the FPGA, Gorf assisted and did all the testing.

And it happened a few years ago and now and was posted on JS2 so not sure how you missed it as I know you are a member there. Edited by The_Laird

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[quote name='carmel_andrews' date='Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:05 PM' timestamp='1298034347' post='2213279']
Don't think doing a fpga just of a cpu is going to do much, you need replicating the hardware as well (like the sound/gfx chips and other i/o chips)
[/quote]

The whole chip set was done in FPGA from what I remember. The nets were taken from the original blueprints and design documents.

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[quote name='The_Laird' timestamp='1297283120' post='2205574']
[quote name='GKC' date='Wed Feb 9, 2011 8:20 PM' timestamp='1297282823' post='2205567']
So much left to the imagination. Does anyone have any guesses where this would have fallen graphics wise in regards to other consoles? Between PS1 and PS2? N64? :? This is debatable but I think the Jag was just about up there with the PS1. Even if this isn't the case you would hope that the Jag 2 would be enough to overtake the PS1.
[/quote]

Yeah from looking at the specs it would have been alot more powerful than the PS1 but not as powerful as the PS2.
[/quote]
Not THESE specs I hope:
http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/jaguar/jag2specs.html

As those are completely wrong and probably derived from magazine/rumor mill sources. (they most definitely are not close to the actual hardware specs detailed in the final Jaguar II manual)
That's one of many articles/pages that is in need of an update on curt's site. (probably not deletion, but being tagged as not real specs -it's still interesting to see from the pure rumor/exaggerated tech side of things though)

The Jag II/Midsummer manual is the best source for tech info iirc. (not sure if it's on Curt's site, but it's been posted on AA a few times and I downloaded the pdf a while back)

See this segment of discussion in this thread:
http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/119048-its-1993-youre-in-charge-of-the-jag-what-do-you-do/page__st__875__p__1966161#entry1966161


As Crazyzce mentioned and from what I've seen from the Jag II's actual documents, it would have still had some disadvantages over the PSX, but also other advantages.
It still would have been critically bandwidth limited by a single bus at ~106 MB/s or 133 MB/s if they'd gotten the new chips up to 33 MHz and the DRAM up to 16.6 MHz. (they could have jumped to EDO DRAM -which was getting cheaper and much less expensive than the SDRAM Sega was using- but that would have been tougher to maintain 100% compatibility with as per the goals of the Jag II).

The fundamental chipset (namely Oberon/Tom II) totalyl kicked the PSX's ass (specifically the GPU) and had advantages over the N64's RSP as well, but like the orignal Jag, it would have had to switch to a higher cost bracket (like Sony or Sega pushed) and dropped backwards compatibility to truly meet those goals.

I think the RISC GPU was about the same, texture mapping was now fully buffered and more flexible with a texture cache added and blinear filtering support. (not sure about perspective correction) The blitter also added polygon rasterization in hardware. I forget if there was a cache for the GPU or not, but I know there was supposed to be a unified cache added to the 3rd RISC core that was to be the game logic/AI processor (basically the CPU) which was to be part of the Puck/Tom II ASIC. (the prototypes all used the old Tom chip though)
There was also to be a slow sound bus to remove any overhead/contention issues related to bus accesses for the sound subsystem. (a separate 16-bit bus would have been a godsend for the Jag I -allowing Jerry and the 68k to work off the main bus and in parallel with TOM, then again, a CPU with a cache also would have been a godsend ;))

Hardware is only one side of things though and Atari had been in no position to properly launch/manage the Jaguar I in 1993, let alone in 1996. (in 1988-1991 they were probably in a good enough situation financially to fund such a mass market product with internal funds and credit -2 things that they did not have in 1993)

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[quote name='kool kitty89' timestamp='1300265427' post='2235453']
The fundamental chipset (namely Oberon/Tom II) totalyl kicked the PSX's ass (specifically the GPU) and had advantages over the N64's RSP as well, but like the orignal Jag, it would have had to switch to a higher cost bracket (like Sony or Sega pushed) and dropped backwards compatibility to truly meet those goals.
[/quote]

I think I'll have to disagree on that point - Although the jaguar ii chipset was better than the first it would still barely match the PSX or even the Saturn.
Bilinear filtering was there but it ran at 1/4 the rate of normal texturing , and there was no perspective correct texturing in hardware.
It would have been fun to program though :)

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[quote name='JoeyCipriani' timestamp='1300250382' post='2235333']
To bad no one bought it. Maybe someone should buy it, and finish it... call up the nintoaster guy!
[/quote]
As far as I am aware that board would never work & that's a chunk of change to have tied up in a pretty circuit board! Shame :(

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[quote name='Gaztee' timestamp='1300320309' post='2236096']As far as I am aware that board would never work & that's a chunk of change to have tied up in a pretty circuit board! Shame :([/quote]

Not only that, but the 'cpu/chipset was finished in FPGA' seems to be a [i]gigantic [/i]load of bullshit as well.

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You know, I just hope that whomever buys it leaves it as the collector's piece, and doesn't try to make a clock or things out of it. AIE!

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[quote name='remowilliams' timestamp='1300513733' post='2237975']
[quote name='Gaztee' timestamp='1300320309' post='2236096']As far as I am aware that board would never work & that's a chunk of change to have tied up in a pretty circuit board! Shame :([/quote]

Not only that, but the 'cpu/chipset was finished in FPGA' seems to be a [i]gigantic [/i]load of bullshit as well.
[/quote]

Your a member on JS2 go ask the people there who were involved in it, I am sure the topics are still around ;)

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[quote name='The_Laird' timestamp='1300538411' post='2238106']
[quote name='remowilliams' timestamp='1300513733' post='2237975']
[quote name='Gaztee' timestamp='1300320309' post='2236096']As far as I am aware that board would never work & that's a chunk of change to have tied up in a pretty circuit board! Shame :([/quote]

Not only that, but the 'cpu/chipset was finished in FPGA' seems to be a [i]gigantic [/i]load of bullshit as well.
[/quote]

Your a member on JS2 go ask the people there who were involved in it, I am sure the topics are still around ;)
[/quote]

I think you're mistaken. There are a few, now since deleted, posts from Gorf saying he would like to do it and that he has an "awesome FPGA man" but nothing else - plenty of speculation and some wacky predictions but nothing remotely tangible.

Also, given that you're not only making the claim but repeating it you could at least provide a link or source.

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Unlike you I am not a member of JS2 so if you and Remo are that bothered about it I will leave you to do the searching or ask Jay as it maybe in one of the "Super Secret Special™ " areas :roll:

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I've searched already on a few occasions and found nothing. I've now taken the view that you're either misremembering or lying, which wouldn't exactly be out of character for you.

Note, I'm more than happy to publicly eat humble pie if you can substantiate the claim.

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