OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 To be clear, this is not about what is better, preferred, recommended etc. I just want to know if I can safely use Sega Genesis / Megadrive and compatible gamepads as replacements for Atari computers / 2600 / Amiga computers etc. I am well aware of the systems such controllers will plug into but are not fully compatible with, but for systems where it can be used as a direct replacement like the 2600 where it definitely works I want to know IS IT SAFE? Will using such controllers be bad for the system long term (or any worse than the original controller?) because even though I have all the originals joysticks, controllers, gamepads I would like to know if I could simply have a couple Genesis controllers on hand at anytime to use safely with all compatible systems but I do not want to if they are bad for a particular console or computer. If I can do this than I will pick up a few spare Genesis pads to keep as spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychoKittyNet Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I like to use original controllers when I can, but I heard of no issues using a Genesis controller. Don't see any reason to worry, but I'm sure someone else who knows more about the controllers could say more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+thegoldenband Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 IIRC there's a known issue on the Commodore 64 involving some sort of short that can burn out a chip, so don't use Genesis controllers on a C64 (not sure about Master System controllers). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonigann Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I've heard that if you use Sega gamepads on any Atari for too long the Atari will get angry and make your brain explode because your not using original hardware. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 IIRC there's a known issue on the Commodore 64 involving some sort of short that can burn out a chip, so don't use Genesis controllers on a C64 (not sure about Master System controllers). Can anyone absolutely verify this? Is there a work around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I've heard the same thing before. Here's an explanation that sounds reasonable enough. Check out page 47 of Commodore World issue #5 for an adapter schematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amiman99 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I've heard that if you use Sega gamepads on any Atari for too long the Atari will get angry and make your brain explode because your not using original hardware. @OldSchoolRetroGamer I'm sorry, but I will use your comment... Can anyone absolutely verify this? Is there a work around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockin' Kat Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 IIRC there's a known issue on the Commodore 64 involving some sort of short that can burn out a chip, so don't use Genesis controllers on a C64 (not sure about Master System controllers). Can anyone absolutely verify this? Is there a work around? Yeah, I had to replace the chip responsible for interpreting keyboard/joystick input on my C64 back when I first got my C64 and it was most likely because I used my genesis pads on it since I didn't have anything else at the time. Other than making the adapter mentioned in RevEng's link, you could always mod the genesis pads. They wouldn't work on a genesis anymore of course though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Geez! Does this apply to the VIC-20 as well, or is this isolated to the Commodore 64? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylon Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Far as I've tested, SMS controls are fine for A8/C64/VIC-20 except the Sega Sports Pad and Sega Paddle control(Japan only) The issue with C64 is true with unmodified Genny controls and I haven't risked a Vic on them yet. I use modified Genny controls, when I use a pad. I've even set up a pair of them for use on Robotron. Genny controls aren't direct circuits to all the buttons and directionals. 2 directions and some fire functions run through an internal IC in the controller. That IC's routing is what causes the failure. SMS stuff is direct wired to each function, just like an Atari joystick with an extra wire. I use the Genny 3-button style for the mods since there's more room in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 How many active buttons could you theoretically have on a 9-pin controller without fancy tricks like high/low voltage and analog input? I don't remember if you need a line dedicated to both ground AND power for these controllers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-topdog Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 IIRC there's a known issue on the Commodore 64 involving some sort of short that can burn out a chip, so don't use Genesis controllers on a C64 (not sure about Master System controllers). Can anyone absolutely verify this? Is there a work around? It is true. I would not use Genesis controllers on the C64 unless you wish to burn out your CIA chip. It isn't a given that it will happen, but there is a huge strain on the chip when keyboard and joystick are in use concurrently, which has a good chance of frying the chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatta Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Same goes for the C128, BTW. Joypad input from a Sega controller causes all sorts of strange behavior. It didn't fry mine, but it definitely wasn't happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98PaceCar Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I know you don't want to use one on an MSX and I suspect it will cause problems with a ZX Spectrum as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malducci Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 This might have something to do with it: http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=controls:sega_atari_msx_x68000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendawg Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 You definitely won't be able to use a Genesis pad in a TI-99/4A without some kind of adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty75 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Hi all, I realise this is a REALLY old thread but I thought I'd revive it as I have recently picked up an old ZX Spectum+ with a flash card attached that uses the Kempston Interface but trying to find a pad that I can safely use with it seems to be a bit of a minefield, I know I'm cheating a little on the whole retro experience but I hated the sluggish and cumbersome old Quickshot/Comp Pro style joysticks they used even when I owned one the first time around in the 80s! As I usually use Atari I have never had issues swapping pads into different machines and just to introduce myself I am currently running an AV modified 2600JR (custom woody case) with a 7800 gamepad which has always worked fine but I have tried using one of these with the Spectrum and it does not function at all, I know the port is good on the computer as it works with a Konix Navigator stick attached. I have realised from this thread that a Megadrive/Genesis pad is out of the question but I was wondering if anybody has had any success using a Master System pad with a Spectrum or if there is a generic pad out there that is multi-compatible for machines including the Spectrum? Any advice you can give me would be much appreciated. Edited October 11, 2015 by Chatty75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) To be clear, this is not about what is better, preferred, recommended etc. I just want to know if I can safely use Sega Genesis / Megadrive and compatible gamepads as replacements for Atari computers / 2600 / Amiga computers etc. I am well aware of the systems such controllers will plug into but are not fully compatible with, but for systems where it can be used as a direct replacement like the 2600 where it definitely works I want to know IS IT SAFE? Will using such controllers be bad for the system long term (or any worse than the original controller?) because even though I have all the originals joysticks, controllers, gamepads I would like to know if I could simply have a couple Genesis controllers on hand at anytime to use safely with all compatible systems but I do not want to if they are bad for a particular console or computer. If I can do this than I will pick up a few spare Genesis pads to keep as spares. Nooooooo. This will work on SOME systems, not all. The Jaguar and 3DO will NOT work with Genesis controllers. Many will, though, including the Commodore VIC, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600, Atari 7800 (with loss of the second button), the ColecoVision (with loss of many buttons), and Master System. Early versions of the Odyssey2 won't work with Genesis controllers, and neither will the TI 99/4A, but adapters can easily be built for those. EDIT: Okay, maybe not the Commodore 64! I didn't know about that. Also, this thread's kinda old, isn't it? Edited October 11, 2015 by Jess Ragan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800fan Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Not C64. It kinds of work but you risk frying one of the CIA because Select button is wired to where 5v should be and Genesis controller 5v is where paddle line should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaWarrior Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Go to 5:05 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 I'm digging up an old thread because I recently got a joystick that can be used for the Genesis or the SNES. You change the cable to connect it to each. When I used it the first time on my 2600, it created some distortion on-screen. It was horizontal bars that would occasionally come and go seemingly at random but probably somehow tied to the directions or buttons on the controller. That got me curious if it actually was OK to use all Genesis controllers on the 2600. I suspected the problem to be the 5v line on the console connecting to something on the controller, so I connected it through a patch cable that only has the 6 necessary wires connected (1,2,3,4,6,8). Voila problem gone. I may hook it back up and only leave line 7 open to see if it indeed was the 5v line. Anyway, has anyone ever observed this before? Could this controller be doing damage to my 2600? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Pac Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 I have used a Genesis controller on the 2600 and 7800 with very little issue. Namely the 7800s 2 button games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 It would be informative to know if it was gamepad directions (handled by RIOT) or gamepad buttons (handled by TIA) that trigger the issue. A lot of people have been using genesis controllers on the 2600, so I don't think it's a matter of of genesis controllers being problematic in general. The only joystick pins that could cause problems by being directly connected would be pin 7 (+v) and pin 8 (gnd) - the rest could be joined together in all kinds of combinations without any sort of issue like you're describing. Pin 7 on a genesis port is the "select" line, which controls which set of buttons the controller is reporting - this is an input to the controller, so I wouldn't expect the controller to ever be connecting it to ground. So I don't believe there's anything damaging for the 2600 going on. My best guess is that the multiplexer chip in this controller draws a bit too much current from your 2600. When you cut off the connection to pin 7, you've leaving the multiplexer chip unpowered. (a genesis controller plugged into a 2600 also gets it's power from the select line, but this is a back-fed power source, not the intended one.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 2 hours ago, RevEng said: It would be informative to know if it was gamepad directions (handled by RIOT) or gamepad buttons (handled by TIA) that trigger the issue. A lot of people have been using genesis controllers on the 2600, so I don't think it's a matter of of genesis controllers being problematic in general. The only joystick pins that could cause problems by being directly connected would be pin 7 (+v) and pin 8 (gnd) - the rest could be joined together in all kinds of combinations without any sort of issue like you're describing. Pin 7 on a genesis port is the "select" line, which controls which set of buttons the controller is reporting - this is an input to the controller, so I wouldn't expect the controller to ever be connecting it to ground. So I don't believe there's anything damaging for the 2600 going on. My best guess is that the multiplexer chip in this controller draws a bit too much current from your 2600. When you cut off the connection to pin 7, you've leaving the multiplexer chip unpowered. (a genesis controller plugged into a 2600 also gets it's power from the select line, but this is a back-fed power source, not the intended one.) I can experiment a little more. I have a cable with disconnects on each of the 9 wires, so I can try different combinations. I can also try actual 3 and 6 button Sega pads. I will admit that it is a little confusing why the joystick stlll works after disconnecting these lines. I looked at the pinout and it is supposed to get 5v on pin 5 and (as you say) the "select" input is on pin 7. I guess if pin 7 is floating that the stick/pad will behave with buttons B and C active and digital. AND if there's no voltage on line 5 then you can simply never use button A? One of the reasons I made the patch cable with disconnects is to experiment with different adapters. I was going to make a safe cable for the C64 and I found the old schematic with the diodes. My question about that is why even connect the voltage lines at all on the C64? Wouldn't it also protect the CIA if the multiplexer just never got power in the first place? C64 adapter schematic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 I tested more Genesis controllers on the 2600 with various wires connected. All the stock Genesis pads I tested were fine and did not reproduce the problem. (Although I think the only 3 button pad I have has a short or something). The only one that gave me the screen distortion was the Interact Arcade Pro Dual Compatible joystick. Predictably, the problem (horizontal lines of distortion) only happens when pin 7 is connected. It doesn't seem to directly correlate with a joystick or button press. I suspect it may simply occur occasionally on the chip's "select pulse" interval. Another interesting behavior I noticed is that when pin 5 is connected and pin 7 is not that every other press to the right resulted in the fire button also grounding and activating. However, this stopped when pin 7 was re-connected. That is odd behavior because right and B never seem to overlap on the Genesis "select pulse" table. Regarding the horizontal lines, I am using a non-standard power supply with that 2600, so it could simply be that the stick is drawing too much power (as @RevEng suspected). It also seems likely that since the device has dual mode capability that there are extra decisions being made internally that are the cause of the behavior I'm noticing. Anyway, I don't plan to use that joystick with pin 7 or 5 connected anymore. It's not really that great of a joystick anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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