Total number of A8 units sold worldwide = ?

[JamesD]

Just to point out a few things here.

If they were going to import 60-70 thousand 8 bits to Poland that agrees with the previously posted comment from the stockholder meeting. I'm thinking the 250-270 thousand number was total sales to that point, not for a year.

 

If 20% of global production was sent to Poland and Poland imports 70 thousand / year then global production is 350,000 which is reasonable with with Germany + other countries.

 

 

This is a total stab in the dark but here goes...

 

Production of XL line was slower than my estimate at first due to turmoil at Atari. Between that and people shying away from a company in trouble they lost US sales that should have been 500K+ for two or three more years.

The 2.7 million number was probably accurate (and management's attitude would make total sense) but we can't be sure, however, it does fit in line with the 400/800 sales numbers. And Atari had a hell of a lot of bad press after Dec '82 and the intro of the C64. (I saw comments about the Atari being 'old technology' in Infoworld)

Eastern Europe bumped numbers up as the rest of the world declined and there were around three years at 350K, then dropping to 250K, then going through the floor like everyone else's 8 bit sales.

That gives at least 3.5 million in sales and 4 million would certainly not be out of line if you consider machines sold after the 8 bit is discontinued and allow some sort of +- fudge factor.

So 3.5 to 4.5 million. 5 million? I don't think they got there but it was Atari's own fault if they didn't.

 

FWIW, I don't think the Speccy sold that many either. Sinclair had too many production issues and the 5 million number is based on too many optimistic guesses about clone sales, which shouldn't count anyway.

[Kr0tki]

I'm thinking the 250-270 thousand number was total sales to that point, not for a year.

Yes, definitely. It directly follows from the context - just before the quoted paragraph, they discuss the history of LDW, so the next question simply stated as "How many were sold?" quite obviously means that it's about total historical sales.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Kr0tki

[svenski]

Compute! May 1988 writes Atari claimed sales of over 2 million XE games system units in 1987.

[Rybags]

That'd change things considerably then.

 

Thinking about it... I check eBay 1-2 times daily for local Atari stuff. We're lucky to see 3-5 machines a month come up, but of those the most common is the XEGS.

 

Pre-XE sales here were pretty poor - more a case of a pathetic distributor who practically doubled (or more) the US prices than anything else. Once the Tramiels got in they booted them and set up a local Atari distributor who had more realistic pricing all around.

 

Every chance that the XEGS did relatively well in other non-US markets too. The common "failure" tag you see attached to it is probably more in comparison to "consoles" such as SMS and NES. 2 million compared to those 2 machines is a bit of a fail when you consider the NES sold over 10 times that number.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Rybags

[svenski]

Well I think we can't underestimate the XEGS when it comes to sales - Atari did back it up with advertising, the new carts, plus Atari UK went on to commission and release several new titles on tape.

[JamesD]

Compute! May 1988 writes Atari claimed sales of over 2 million XE games system units in 1987.

Page 87. The same article mentions 3 million NES systems sold for the Christmas season.

Given that, 2 million wasn't industry leading numbers but it was respectable and I think Atari would be happy with it.

Especially since the 5200 only sold 1 million total over several years.

 

However, everything I've been able to find on the XEGS says it was discontinued after a "short time".

If they sold 2 million in 1 year, I think they would have kept selling it.

If we can find a discontinue date rather than "on the market a short time" that should refute or back up that number. If the machine was only on the market 2 years then it's a safe bet that 2 million was a forecast and not actual sales.

 

When I look at stock prices for '87 (when the XEGS was introduced) I see steadily falling numbers, a jump in August (possibly do to sales forecasts), a crash in Sept, and a built up till Christmas and a crash in January '88 with no recovery that year which indicates poor sales the previous year.

'89 averaged lower than '88 so if there was some good news on sales you sure couldn't tell from that.

When you start selling in the millions, stockholders take notice. That's why I think it was a forecast.

[svenski]

It isn't just a case of sales = a better stock price. That is the simplest way of looking at stock prices. There have been plenty of cases including with PC manufacturers today that have had increased sales but falling profits and hence a lower stock price. Global events impact stock prices, rumor, hearsay, newspaper articles, there are dozens of factors that can impact stock prices even for companies in completely unrelated sectors. Atari's stock price might have been down , despite 2 million XEGS sales if that was the case, due to a whole ton of factors - the market thinking sales were poor when up against Nintendo, all sorts of things. You could also argue that if Atari hadn't sold X amount of 8-bits in a year then their stock price would have been even lower. Without accurate sales figures from Atari for each fiscal year it is hard to say what influence 8-bit sales or no 8-bit sales had on stock value.

 

Atari certainly sold the XEGS through part of 87 then 88 and 89. Atari UK were expanding their sales & marketing campaign in late 88 and launched new titles in 89. Obviously they were pushing the whole XE range but the XEGS was there. We know Atari USA released a large part of the XE game carts in 88, and 89 was the year when the same company shelved several new XE cart releases.

[JamesD]

It isn't just a case of sales = a better stock price. That is the simplest way of looking at stock prices. There have been plenty of cases including with PC manufacturers today that have had increased sales but falling profits and hence a lower stock price. Global events impact stock prices, rumor, hearsay, newspaper articles, there are dozens of factors that can impact stock prices even for companies in completely unrelated sectors. Atari's stock price might have been down , despite 2 million XEGS sales if that was the case, due to a whole ton of factors - the market thinking sales were poor when up against Nintendo, all sorts of things. You could also argue that if Atari hadn't sold X amount of 8-bits in a year then their stock price would have been even lower. Without accurate sales figures from Atari for each fiscal year it is hard to say what influence 8-bit sales or no 8-bit sales had on stock value.

 

Atari certainly sold the XEGS through part of 87 then 88 and 89. Atari UK were expanding their sales & marketing campaign in late 88 and launched new titles in 89. Obviously they were pushing the whole XE range but the XEGS was there. We know Atari USA released a large part of the XE game carts in 88, and 89 was the year when the same company shelved several new XE cart releases.

And releasing new products (carts) does not guarantee there are sales of new machines.

Remember the "failed comeback" from that time period?

 

Ok, so the released new carts in 88 and shelved new carts in 89? What does that tell you? Or did that come out wrong?

[svenski]

And releasing new products (carts) does not guarantee there are sales of new machines.

Remember the "failed comeback" from that time period?

Ok, so the released new carts in 88 and shelved new carts in 89? What does that tell you? Or did that come out wrong?

 

I would say that the XEGS was on sale from 87 probably through to early 1990. What I posed about the carts was to see if it helped to get an idea of how long it was on sale, nothing more.

 

Atari UK had about 40 game centres around the UK toward the end of 88 and were increasing that to over 65 for the new year. The XEGS was a major part of the game station setup. Again, late 88 Atari UK were talking about new titles across the board for the XE, 2600 and 7800. We know Atari UK went on to release the talked about titles for the XE in 89.

[JamesD]

Atari could use the boost. Its net income overall was $901,000 for the third quarter ended Oct. 1, down from $9.9 million a year earlier, the company reported in mid-November.

Today, Atari`s video game division consists of fewer than 10 people and accounted for more than $100 million of Atari`s 1987 sales.

Chicago Tribune Dec 4, 1988 Link

 

 

Where does Atari fit into all of this? About the same place as one of

Jose Canseco's home runs, somewhere outside of the ball park. Toys 'R'

Us, and other similar toy chains, continue to offer the Atari 2600 and

7800 systems. Often their Atari game selection is much smaller than it

could be, simply because so much shelf space is dedicated to the

Nintendo. Toys 'R' Us continues to offer the Atari XEGS, at $99.95,

while Children's Palace and Kay Bee Toy and Hobby seem to have dropped

it all together. Little or no software for the XEGS is found at Toys

'R' Us (usually on the 'flip side' of the Commodore 64 software they

continue to sell).

Z*Magazine Oct 29, '89 Link

 

 

ATARI SEES ITS UNIT NEAR BREAKEVEN

 

According to Reuters, though losses from Federated Group continue to hurt

earnings, Atari said it expects Federated to just about break even in the

second and third quarters and a modest profit in the fourth quarter. Atari

also said it is reducing costs and improving product mix, margins and

sales.

 

Without Federated, Atari said it would have earned $15.3 million, or 26

cents per share, on sales of $97.7 million in 1988. Atari's net income

was $5.67 million, or 10 cents per share, on net sales of $169.23 million

for the first quarter, down from $15.26 million, or 26 cents, on sales of

$65.13 million a year earlier. Last year's results included a gain of

$5.89 million.

 

Additionally, the company said the Atari computer and video game segment

generated "significant" increases in sales volume. The continuing shortage

of Dynamic Random Access Memory, however, has had a negative impact on

sales, but Atari expects the DRAM shortage and related high cost will

begin to ease later this year.

Sales of the XE-GS are steady and high, sales are rumored at well over

1,000,000 units and Atari is promising harder hitting advertising for its

new 8bit system. More and more 'new' games have been appearing, they

include Battlezone, GATO, Barnyard Blaster, Crossbow, Commando, Airball

and here's one of interest to Dungeons and Dragons players: Dark Chamber.

There is the source of your 1 million number.

A few of the more interesting facts/claims presented in the 1987 annual

report are:

 

<*> Federated stores' operating losses are expected to continue for the

first three quarters of 1988. By year end, Federated is projected to

achieve break-even by Atari.

 

Comment: The fourth quarter holiday sales period is the critical variable

in this projection. In essence, Atari's overall growth in the price of

its stock by the end of 1988 will largely depend upon the speed of

Federated's recovery.

 

<*> Research & Development outlays, as a percent of sales, declined from

6% in 1986 to 5% in 1987.

 

<*> In West Germany, Atari computers represent 10% of the total market for

computers selling over 1000 Deutsch Marks (roughly equivalent to U.S.

$600).

 

<*> In Switzerland, the Atari ST's share is about 30% of the educational

market.

 

<*> In the United Kingdom, Atari sales accounted for some 40% of the 16

bit computer market.

 

<*> In the U.S., over 1000 schools use ST's for math, reading, and

language skills.

And there is the other word that is a problem. When are projections published as facts?

Total video game sales in the U.S. in 1987 amounted to roughly $1.1

billion and Atari has about 16% of the market based on dollar sales

(market share is 35% for the number of game units sold). Nintendo has

about 70% of the market based on dollar sales and between 55 and 60% when

calculated on unit sales. The best "guestimate" is that XE game related

sales accounted for roughly $140 to 170 million of Atari's total revenue

in 1987.

Z*Magazine Dec 18, '88

 

*********************

*ATARI'S EARNINGS UP*

*********************

Atari Corp. says its fourth quarter earnings were up 57 percent to $18.7

million. That represents 32 cents a share on revenue of $277 million,

compared with earnings of $11.9 million, or 22 cents per share, on

revenue of $92.6 million in the same period of the previous year. The

fourth quarter showed boosts the profits for all of 1987 up 76% to

$44.1 million, or 76 cents per share, from $25 million, or 53 cents in

1986. At the same time, sales rose 91 percent, increasing to $493 million

in 1987 compared with $258 million the previous year. Atari spokesman

Greg Pratt told The Associated Press that contributing the healthier

financial picture -- besides the buyout of Federated, which now accounts

for 25 percent of Atari -- were strengthened computer sales in Europe and

booming video game sales in the US. "Video games were obviously a hot

category" in 1987, he said. "There were no teddy bears or laser guns to

take those dollars away. People went back to more traditional stuff and

bought video games."

 

Atari's 4th quarter Earnings Report

 

_Atari Corp_ _4th Quarter_

 

LATEST PERIOD YEAR EARLIER

---------------------------------------

$276,956,000 $92,667,000

$18,702,000 (.32) a-$22,997,000 (.43)

ATARI FIRST-QUARTER EARNINGS DOWN NEARLY 63 PERCENT AT $5.7 MILLION

 

SUNNYVALE, Calif. (MAY 13) UPI - Atari Corp. reported earnings in the

first quarter of 1988 fell nearly 63 percent to $5.7 million or 10 cents

a share, down from $15.3 million or 26 cents a share in the same period

last year.

 

However, revenues for the Sunnyvale-based maker of personal computers and

video games rose to $169.2 million in the quarter ended April 2, up more

than 61 percent compared to $65.1 million in the first quarter of 1987,

the company said in a statement released late Thursday.

 

Atari blamed the downturn in its earnings on losses incurred by the

Federated Group Inc., its retail subsidiary, which it acquired in

October 1987.

 

The Federated division reported a pre-tax operating loss of $9.6 million

on sales of $71.5 million in the first quarter of 1988. Not counting that

loss, Atari's earnings would have been $15.29 million in the first

quarter up marginally over $15.28 million last year, the company said.

 

First quarter results last year were boosted by a $5.9 million credit

related to accounting changes, the company said.

 

"The losses incurred by Federated ...continue to adversely impact Atari's

earnings," said Sam Tramiel, Atari's president. But he added that

Federated "is now approaching a breakeven point and we forsee a small

loss or a small profit in the second and third quarters," and "a modest

profit" in the fourth quarter.

 

"Further action is being taken to reduce costs, improve product mix and

margin, and to increase sales," Tramiel said.

 

FRIDAY'S AMEX 10 MOST ACTIVE STOCKS

 

NEW YORK (MAY 13) - The 10 most active stocks in American Stock Exchange

composite trading Friday:

 

Stock Sales Last Net Chg.

Sothebys 1,143,800 18 1/8 unch

Dome Pet 1,008,400 1 1-16 off 1-16

Amdahl Corp 621,400 47 up 3/4

ICH Corp 499,800 7 5/8 off 1/8

Lorimar Tel 267,000 12 3/4 off 1/4

Wang Lab B 187,700 10 5/8 off 1/4

Viacom 187,300 25 1/4 up 1/8

Horn & Har 176,600 7 1/8 up 3/4

Atari Corp 158,300 7 5/8 unch

Texas Air 147,200 10 7/8 up 1/4

Z*Magazine Dec 11, '88

[svenski]

From what you've posted, everything seems to suggest the XEGS sold quite well in 1987, which is not bad at all considering it was released in the last quarter. XEGS sales wouldn't have just stopped come January 1988 so I would say it is looking like the XEGS by itself could easily account for 2 million or more in unit sales , whether it happened in Christmas 87 or whether it took a bit longer.

[JamesD]

Total video game sales in the U.S. in 1987 amounted to roughly $1.1

billion and Atari has about 16% of the market based on dollar sales

(market share is 35% for the number of game units sold). Nintendo has

about 70% of the market based on dollar sales and between 55 and 60% when

calculated on unit sales. The best "guestimate" is that XE game related

sales accounted for roughly $140 to 170 million of Atari's total revenue

in 1987.

Ok, Atari is estimated at 35% and Nintendo has 60% (supposedly sold 3 million?) so total market is estimated at 5 million.

Atari share 1.75 million between all game systems... 2600(?), 7800, and XEGS.

And those are estimates and we don't know if the author cherry picked the Atari number from a range.

Edited June 28, 2011 by JamesD

[JamesD]

From what you've posted, everything seems to suggest the XEGS sold quite well in 1987, which is not bad at all considering it was released in the last quarter. XEGS sales wouldn't have just stopped come January 1988 so I would say it is looking like the XEGS by itself could easily account for 2 million or more in unit sales , whether it happened in Christmas 87 or whether it took a bit longer.

You did see the word "rumored" and the observation that the XEGS games / machines were disappearing from store shelves in '89 while 2600/7800 was still supported. That would indicate the majority of that 35% market share was 2600/7800 sales. The question is, what is the actual number?

Edited June 28, 2011 by JamesD

[Wildstar]

It's not 30 million for C64, in 1992 I had a stock shareholders report copy sent to me for a business project and it actually states 17.??? million so the 17-18million quote is correct.

 

How did you come up with those figures for the various countries for A8 sales then?

 

17 Million was U.S. alone. Worldwide sales was on the order of 30 million and that was a confirmed Guiness Book of World Records which had obtained the numbers from Commodore Electronics International, Limited (the Bahama based parent company of Commodore Business Machines which was the U.S. and Canda part of Commodore.

 

Lets think about it, in just between the years of 1983 and 1985 (2 years) was 4 Million+ units a year. 1982, they had close to 2 Million units sold world wide.

 

The 30 million figure considers both the the C64 and the C64c together. The C-128 and 128Ds are not included. Lets remember that Commodore in 1982 was selling over 4 Million computers (Vic-20 and their CBM/B/P series computers). Commodore was selling well over 5 Million computers a year during the mid to late 1980s considering they had several PC models, Amiga models, and so forth. Commodore was the first personal computer manufacturer to reached over $1 Billion in sales revenue from personal computer sales (Atari reported over $2 Billion in sales from video games in 1982). How Commodore went into bankruptcy is an amazing story which is hilarious at the same time could make your furious and sad at the same time. Even when Commodore went into banktruptcy proceedings, the CEO was the highest paid CEO anywhere in the Computer electronics industry and Irving Gould was making a great deal of money as the biggest shareholder and chairman of the board of directors of Commodore.

 

Atari figures for each model needs to be looked at with a fine-tooth comb. I wouldn't be surprised that there were about 2.5 Million Atari 400/800 alone. Comparable to the number of Apple II and IIe (not including IIc or IIgs. Just the Apple II "fat apples" during the time frame of 1978/79 to 1983 (not including the XL and XEs Atari 8-bits or the consoles).

 

Combined, the Atari 400 & 800 probably sold on the order of 3 to 4.5 Million worldwide. I believe the Atari 800 was probably the best seller of the two amounting to more units sold compared to the 400 given it had real keyboard but it is hard to say.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Wildstar

[Wildstar]

Lets remember, (although this is an old topic) when we talk sales, lets remember the sales count for these units and when they occur happens not when consumer bought the items but the wholesalers and resellers such as Toys'R Us, Target, Walmart, CompUSA, and others. When they paid for shipment of upto over 250,000 worldwide. The factoring equation is two parts. Confirmed sales are all units of these high volume orders that were ultimately sold to the consumer and not returned by the original purchaser of these computers which are the main distributors, wholesalers, resellers. When companies report their sales, they take the date of the orders from the distributers/wholesalers/retail/ and all direct direct orders and adjust the figures for how many were actually sold. One of the things distributers/wholesalers do is those that were not sold would be returned back to the manufacturer and refunded. Remember, 95+% of any mass production sales is wholesale/distributers. Very few people ever bought computers directly from Atari or Commodore or Apple or anyone of these companies. So, the figures often are determined by the amount of units produced that were sent out and not returned by the distributers/wholesalers for refund due to lackluster sales. That was how Atari ended up with a bunch of cartridges that was ultimately buried in the desert of which some of them were dugged out.

 

Usually, the numbers of units not returned from wholesalers/distributers/retail were considered confirmed sales and largely represented the number of sales to within +/- 5% (or less variation).

[Wildstar]

It would be amazing for sales on the order of 2 Million only. What was the sales figures, U.S. or worldwide?

Edited November 24, 2014 by Wildstar

[johannesmutlu]

Wooooaaaahhhh

if it is true that the atari 8bit computer family (including the atari 400/800,600XL & 800XL and the atari XE)only sold together a meagre 2,5 million units,well that’s insanely low considering all those computers were targeted and consumers with different budgets as well for business mans and gamers,and if we count the atari 5200 with it,that would be 3,5 million units since the atari 5200 is the exact same hardware as those atari 8bit family computers with the exception of the lacking an os system with different memory locations and only being a game system and not a hybrid (unless atari made a keyboard along with os programs for the 5200 as an alternative way)

still trough it blows my mind that even with the atari 5200 only 3,5 million units were sold,heck even the C64 alone sold 17 million units and both the C64 max,C16,C126 were not included with those sales numbers of the C64 right???

unless am wrong and they were included as well with the amount of C64 sales.

[Beeblebrox]

Sorry is including a previously sourced reference, but I've just quickly found some research from a guy on this forum post:

https://atari-owner.com/club/articles/atari-8-bit-units-sold.23/

 

I think the worldwide figure is 4million Atari 8-bit computer line computers sold between 1979 and 1992. Very low by comparrision.

Atari 2600 - Total worldwide sales of 30 million
Atari 7800 - North American is 3.77 million. Rest of world unknown but estimated to be around 1.5 million.
Atari Lynx - Worldwide sales of around 3 million. UK Sales were 1 million.
Atari 8-bit - Total worldwide sales were 4 million.
Atari ST - Total worldwide sales of 6 million. UK sales were 1.5 million.

 

Afaik (and Atari were well known for screwing up in this area which I won't go into as too complex) Atari lost out to the C64 in particular for Sales in the UK big time.

[Rybags]

Would have to hope it was in the 4 million region.  Even the C128 sold around 2.5 and it was a released when 8-bit machines were becoming obsolete.

Wiki only has the C64  at 12.5 to 17 million, but other sources have it at 17-30.

 

Apple II estimates say around 6 million.  So given they had much better software support later on than ours, maybe the Atari sales were a bit lower than 4 million.

 

[zzip]

4 hours ago, johannesmutlu said:

Wooooaaaahhhh

if it is true that the atari 8bit computer family (including the atari 400/800,600XL & 800XL and the atari XE)only sold together a meagre 2,5 million units,well that’s insanely low considering all those computers were targeted and consumers with different budgets as well for business mans and gamers

You have to understand that in the 80s, computers were a new market and there were a lot of consumers who had no idea why they would ever need one.    The people buying computers as hobbies were mostly young, mostly male.   For business, people were soon buying PCs even though they cost much more, because they ran the same applications the could in the office.  Even the competition wasn't posting eye-popping numbers,     Apple II's sold around 6 million total,  the TI 99/4a sold 2.8 million.   The C-64 ran away with everything with estimated sales of 12-17 million.

 

It wasn't really until the internet came along that owning a computer became mainstream.

 

4 hours ago, johannesmutlu said:

still trough it blows my mind that even with the atari 5200 only 3,5 million units were sold

Because Atari killed the 5200 off in less than two years to make way for the 7800.   The 5200 never got a chance.

[+Philsan]

"Atari expect the new Lucasfilm software to stimulate sales of future games machines while tapping an existing market of 4 million owners of Atari's home computer and 5200 games machines". Business Week May 21, 1984.

Considered the fact in 1985 XE line appeared, produced till 1991, I think at least 5 million home computers have been sold.

[+DarkLord]

On 9/27/2023 at 9:13 AM, Beeblebrox said:

Sorry is including a previously sourced reference, but I've just quickly found some research from a guy on this forum post:

https://atari-owner.com/club/articles/atari-8-bit-units-sold.23/

 

I think the worldwide figure is 4million Atari 8-bit computer line computers sold between 1979 and 1992. Very low by comparrision.

Atari 2600 - Total worldwide sales of 30 million
Atari 7800 - North American is 3.77 million. Rest of world unknown but estimated to be around 1.5 million.
Atari Lynx - Worldwide sales of around 3 million. UK Sales were 1 million.
Atari 8-bit - Total worldwide sales were 4 million.
Atari ST - Total worldwide sales of 6 million. UK sales were 1.5 million.

 

Afaik (and Atari were well known for screwing up in this area which I won't go into as too complex) Atari lost out to the C64 in particular for Sales in the UK big time.

 

Wait... The ST line outsold the 8bit line? Huh... Didn't figure on that.

 

[deffroe]

Sorry guys but these figures are wrong, 400/800/XL/XE line sold close to C64 figures and there are MILLIONS in circulation, 10 a penny, not RARE and definitely NOT Ultra RARE.  In fact, when I was out walking the dog I walked past at least 30,000 XL's.  I did I did!!

🥸

[Goochman]

The ST line was alot more popular globally than the 8bit from what I gather.  It had a pretty good run whereas the 8bit I think had a good 3/4 years or sales before decline.

[zzip]

1 hour ago, DarkLord said:

 

Wait... The ST line outsold the 8bit line? Huh... Didn't figure on that.

 

Thanks to Europe, probably.    Based on the availability of software on ST vs 8-bit,  the ST did seem more popular,  but a lot of the software came from Europe.