David Crane 1 hr speech GDC 2011

[Keatah]

That was also the most coherent description of the crash I've heard.

 

Not only that, it is very accurate. And it takes you from the big picture of venture capitalists down to the living room floor with daddy bringing home a bagfull of bullshit $5.00 cartridges.

[BrianC]

Crap games killed the industry

 

That might have been part of it, but wasn't the only factor since some of the best games on 2600 and Colecovision were from 1984 and some of the better Intellivision games came out in 1983.

[+Random Terrain]

That might have been part of it, but wasn't the only factor since some of the best games on 2600 and Colecovision were from 1984 and some of the better Intellivision games came out in 1983.

Did anyone buy them or did they wait for them to reach the bargain bins too? I'd need to look at my old calendars to refresh my memory, but off the top of my head, I think the only game I bought the month it was released after 1982 was Pitfall II: Lost Caverns because of all of the hype about it being the best adventure game ever made. I was so disappointed with its lack of randomness and replayability that I took it back to the store and got my money back. Adventure game, my ass. Most of my Atari 2600 game money was spent on bargain bin games from 1983 on.

[Bryan]

That was also the most coherent description of the crash I've heard.

 

Not only that, it is very accurate. And it takes you from the big picture of venture capitalists down to the living room floor with daddy bringing home a bagfull of bullshit $5.00 cartridges.

 

In context, I probably would have thought it was a sure thing too. Once Activision won their lawsuit against Atari, everyone had the same idea to get a piece of the action. What's interesting to me is that Atari, Inc. set their own demise in motion when they let their top talent walk out the door.

[TheShanMan]

You guys talk as though the crash only related to console stuff. Being primarily an arcade game collector and spending more of my time on forums like klov, it's interesting to see such a different perspective on the crash. From the arcade community's perspective, a lot of the blame for the crash (which included the arcade game industry) gets blamed on crap arcade games flooding the market and consoles (vcs being one contributor in that regard). Not that I'm particularly well researched on the crash though - I tend not to care too much about what caused it because what's done is done. But again, it's just interesting to me to see a different perspective on it.

 

Looking forward to seeing this video when I get a free hour!

[GreenDayRlz]

Actually, with arcade hardare being so much better [Even in 1980 with Defender and Pac-Man] it just killed the Atari, and the $0.25 per game was well worth it, a $30 cart was a lot of games, on a better system, and was more enjoyable. Robotron was a smash it during the main part of the crash, explain that, and many others. After the crash though, it seems companies hard a harder time with the Arcades, since new and better consoles were coming out, too, it make the hardware from 6 years ago in the arcades seem only on par.

[Keatah]

You could break this up into three crashes

 

1- home cartridge based systems

2- home computers

3- arcade platforms

[ScumSoft]

Did anyone buy them or did they wait for them to reach the bargain bins too? I'd need to look at my old calendars to refresh my memory, but off the top of my head, I think the only game I bought the month it was released after 1982 was Pitfall II: Lost Caverns because of all of the hype about it being the best adventure game ever made. I was so disappointed with its lack of randomness and replayability that I took it back to the store and got my money back. Adventure game, my ass. Most of my Atari 2600 game money was spent on bargain bin games from 1983 on.

WOAH! WOAH WOAH!

You're not allowed to have an "insert contrary opinion" about "insert game name here", it's my all time favorite and I've played it more than any other game during "insert period of repressed childhood", it's the only thing that allowed me to deal with "insert made up disease here"...Ah those were the days!

 

Best game ever!!!

Edited June 27, 2011 by ScumSoft

[Keatah]

Best game ever!!!

 

This is funny, there is no such thing as "best game ever".. Someone likes a game, someone does not like a game.

Who is to say who is right?

 

A bunch of idiots could say something is good. One highly respected and educated dude could say something is good. Who is to say who is right?

 

I guess I'm not a Pitfall II fan, that music is beyond annoying!

Edited June 27, 2011 by Keatah

[ScumSoft]

Best game ever!!!

 

This is funny, there is no such thing as "best game ever".. Someone likes a game, someone does not like a game.

Who is to say who is right?

 

A bunch of idiots could say something is good. One highly respected and educated dude could say something is good. Who is to say who is right?

I ScumSoft approve of this post.

 

But I offer this in rebuttal, "insert whimsical rebuttal here".

 

Now what say you kind sir? We've examined the facts afore mentioned, and they point to this being one of the greatest achievements in gaming history.

If this doesn't qualify it as the Best game ever!! -"The Comic Book Guy", then was does?

 

 

[edit]

I guess I'm not a Pitfall II fan, that music is beyond annoying!

Do do do Dooo DOOOOOOO! Do do doo DOOO doo, da DOOOO DOOOO DOOOO DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Do do do Dooo DOOOOOOO! Do do doo DOOO doo, da DOO da da DOO DOO DOO, buh buh buh doo dala dala dooo! buh buh buh doo dala dala dooo! buh buh buh BAAAA BAAAAAAAA BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! reprise:

Edited June 27, 2011 by ScumSoft

[SeaGtGruff]

I guess I'm not a Pitfall II fan, that music is beyond annoying!

It's catchy, but any music gets annoying after it's been playing over and over and over and over and over. Even the background music to "Oblivion," as stirring and epic as it is (it reminds me of the music in "The Lord of the Rings") gets to be pretty annoying after a while. The trend of having music playing constantly throughout a game is kind of overdone if you ask me, although it can be enjoyable if it's done well-- one of the prime requirements (in my opinion) being that it *changes*-- preferably often-- instead of just repeating the same thing. But I don't mind the music so much, because many years ago I discovered that there's this little thing on a TV called a "volume control," and I often use it to turn the volume down completely-- except for games where the sounds can actually give me indications of something happening on screen that I might otherwise miss, as in "Millipede."

 

But getting back to the music in "Pitfall II," it's actually pretty good for something written by a game designer as opposed to a musician. At least, I *assume* that David Crane wrote it himself. If it had been created nowadays, they would have gotten a musician-- or team of musicians-- to do the music, and a graphics artist-- or team of graphics artists-- to do the graphics, etc.

 

Michael

[jaybird3rd]

But getting back to the music in "Pitfall II," it's actually pretty good for something written by a game designer as opposed to a musician. At least, I *assume* that David Crane wrote it himself.

Crane said in an interview--at CGE, I think--that he adapted the music from a Pitfall! cartoon series. He must have been referring to Saturday Supercade, an animated series that was divided into segments based on Pitfall! and several other video games, such as Donkey Kong and Q*Bert.

 

Here's a clip from one of the Pitfall! episodes (it won't allow embedding, unfortunately). You can hear a bit of the "Pitfall! II theme" at about 0:30.

[Keatah]

What I would like to see is some more games written that use the DPC or perhaps an updated DPC-II. Does Stella emulator emulate the entire DPC or does it simulate it specifically for Pitfall II?

[SeaGtGruff]

What I would like to see is some more games written that use the DPC or perhaps an updated DPC-II. Does Stella emulator emulate the entire DPC or does it simulate it specifically for Pitfall II?

I believe Stella emulates the DPC-- at least, it has a DPC cartridge/bankswitching type, which is what it uses for Pitfall II. As to whether it emulates all of the available features of the DPC, I don't know. So you should be able to create a ROM that relies on the DPC and run it in Stella using the DPC cart type-- assuming the ROM is properly formatted. And if Stella doesn't emulate all the features of the DPC, then you'd have to stick with the features that were used in Pitfall II.

 

It would be simpler/better to use the DPC+ format, since DPC+ duplicates most of the functions of the DPC (and the ones it doesn't duplicate weren't used in Pitfall II), and you would actually be able to produce carts for your game without having to pull the DPC out of existing Pitfall II carts.

 

Michael

[+SpiceWare]

What I would like to see is some more games written that use the DPC or perhaps an updated DPC-II. Does Stella emulator emulate the entire DPC or does it simulate it specifically for Pitfall II?

The DPC support in Stella only supports what was used in Pitfall II. I posted a Sprite Demo and cd-w posted a music demo, though I'm not aware of any homebrew games written to utilize it.

 

DPC+ would be a DPC-II. We took the Stella supported features of DPC and expanded the size of the cartridge from two 4K banks with 2K of Display Data to six 4K banks with 4K of Display Data. I did a DPC+ demo a while back that shows off its features.

 

I am aware of a a few DPC+ projects in the pipeline, though I think only Frantic has been publicly announced. The main slowdown with DPC+ projects at the moment is we're still working out how to do things, like digitized sample support, as well as building the tools (Stella with ARM support) to make it easier to do.

 

While playing Asteroids for the 7800 HSC last night I got to thinking that I could modify my sprite routines to make a better 2600 Asteroids. The current routines take 5 scanlines to reposition both sprites, but I think I can get that down to 2 scanlines since timing would be easier w/out a playfield to update. This Frantic screenshot shows the current routines displaying 24 sprites:

Edited June 27, 2011 by SpiceWare

[mtshark7]

I think his speech was good. I didn't regret watching it for 1 hr...time well spent

[BrianC]

But getting back to the music in "Pitfall II," it's actually pretty good for something written by a game designer as opposed to a musician. At least, I *assume* that David Crane wrote it himself.

Crane said in an interview--at CGE, I think--that he adapted the music from a Pitfall! cartoon series. He must have been referring to Saturday Supercade, an animated series that was divided into segments based on Pitfall! and several other video games, such as Donkey Kong and Q*Bert.

 

Here's a clip from one of the Pitfall! episodes (it won't allow embedding, unfortunately). You can hear a bit of the "Pitfall! II theme" at about 0:30.

 

It seems that tiger came from the cartoon, as well. I find it interesting when official games take things from the cartoon. Pac-Land was another game that took things from a cartoon (theme song from 1982 Pac-Man cartoon and some ghost designs).

 

 

That might have been part of it, but wasn't the only factor since some of the best games on 2600 and Colecovision were from 1984 and some of the better Intellivision games came out in 1983.

Did anyone buy them or did they wait for them to reach the bargain bins too? I'd need to look at my old calendars to refresh my memory, but off the top of my head, I think the only game I bought the month it was released after 1982 was Pitfall II: Lost Caverns because of all of the hype about it being the best adventure game ever made. I was so disappointed with its lack of randomness and replayability that I took it back to the store and got my money back. Adventure game, my ass. Most of my Atari 2600 game money was spent on bargain bin games from 1983 on.

 

That's a good point. I got games like Millipede in bargain bins and many 1984 games are rare.

Edited June 27, 2011 by BrianC

[maiki]

This Frantic screenshot shows the current routines displaying 24 sprites:

 

Are you using the Pitfall 2 chip or Harmony Cartridge CPU to get those sprites displayed?

[+SpiceWare]

Both - the ARM chip calculates the display but it cannot talk to TIA to display them, so the 6507 kernel uses DPC+ to draw the screen.

[maiki]

Both - the ARM chip calculates the display but it cannot talk to TIA to display them, so the 6507 kernel uses DPC+ to draw the screen.

 

How much processing power of the ARM is available? I have read somewhere that it is constantly busy looking after what's going on in the console...

[+SpiceWare]

Quite a bit. When using CALLFUNCTION to run the ARM routines, a NOP is presented to the 6507 before the ARM code runs. The NOP doesn't have to be changed, so the ARM doesn't have to worry about the console while running the ARM code. When the ARM code is done it puts out a JMP to return the 6507 to the instruction after the CALLFUNCTION.

 

There is a potential gotcha - the 6507 is still advancing the PC, so it's best to do the CALLFUNCTION at the beginning of the 4K bank, else you'll crash the system when the PC wraps to zero page.

 

If you're using the 3-voice music, or the new digital sample variation, then you have to CALLFUNCTION with the interrupt option. The interrupt will periodically change the NOP to the instructions to update AUDV0 for the music routines. That imposes about a 10% overhead on the ARM code.

 

As a small example of what you can do, here's a 3D wireframe demo I did that's running at 60fps. There's an odd perspective to the cube that I never got around to tracking down.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIrbCsqQEi8

Edited June 29, 2011 by SpiceWare

[yllawwally]

What was the equation for the polynomial counter used in pitfall?

[GreenDayRlz]

What was the equation for the polynomial counter used in pitfall?

 

I looked at it, lots of shifting. Just go look at the disassembly yourself.

Edited July 20, 2011 by GreenDayRlz

[solidcorp]

This is quite old and I am sure many of you have seen this but I thought it was highly recommended for any 2600 user to see this. He is talking about anything 2600 related, how it all started, about designing 2600 games, video game crash...

 

That was really great. Thanks!