Another Comparision

[NRV]

I'll make sure never to post any progress stuff again in the future and only when it's complete..

 

Hey Tezz, I have a better solution.. just post whatever "work in progress" that you want, whenever you want, and make happy the lot of people that enjoy your demos, myself included

 

The only thing that isn't fair here, is how much you have raised the bar for a "casual work in progress demo".. come on man, you make the rest of us look bad

 

Regards.

[José Pereira]

The Spectrum is just a better design (screen memory speed/faster but less complicated CPU etc)

 

Shadow of the Beast on Amiga on Amiga 500/1000/2000 is a classic example of a game designed to maximize the machine architecture, lower rez of A8 also makes a better trade-off in ultimate speed to 160x200 Amstrad/C64 versions.

 

No single machine from the 80s or 90s could do everything better, fact of life. For complex 3D isometric the fast and dirty ZX wins out in high rez probably......but why not convert Get Dexter 3D from Amstrad CPC...less complex but nice colourful graphics and fast enough.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve92_sHkmic

 

This makes me wonder what could look a CPC version of Last Ninja(s) using this Mode?

Probably, LN1, for example, not great IMHO as C64 because the lack of the guys in hi-resolution and the CPC Pallete doesn't seem the ideal one for get the outside (like greens and Rocks Grays) but also inside (Dungeons lack of Grays and Palace would look probably too much bright)

 

The 16colours are same nº as C64 all Pallete, problem it's the RGB CPC too much bright colours that seems lot Blueish and Purple/Redish and just one Gray...

At least they can port the C64 gfxs. directly and even get more colours in each Char/Tile...

But probably they better not abuse in colours (something common in CPC 2:1 ratio games that would look ugly and not distinguishable...)

 

Not want to start an A8 VS CPC War, o.k.?

Thanks.

Edited December 1, 2011 by José Pereira

[Bryan]

Not want to start an A8 VS CPC War, o.k.?

Thanks.

 

The CPC came out about 6 months before the ST so it would be silly to use it as a basis for any 8-bit platform wars.

[José Pereira]

Not want to start an A8 VS CPC War, o.k.?

Thanks.

 

The CPC came out about 6 months before the ST so it would be silly to use it as a basis for any 8-bit platform wars.

 

Just indirect talking, not that game, just general CPC things and starting another one of those silly...

 

 

 

By, the way, get this Amiga LN3 into 2:1 ratio but it isn't CPC Pallete nor I even know how much colours are here:

Turning this into CPC would need:

-> Doesn't have all those Browns and if Browns another colour (Reds?)

-> CPC just have 1 Gray then substitute one of them (probably the light one) to one of their Pale Greens.

-> (...)

 

Anyone with some Painting program could get this just in similar CPC colours Pallete?

Just wondering how LN could look using the CPC Pallete...

[oky2000]

Not want to start an A8 VS CPC War, o.k.?

Thanks.

 

The CPC came out about 6 months before the ST so it would be silly to use it as a basis for any 8-bit platform wars.

 

Just indirect talking, not that game, just general CPC things and starting another one of those silly...

 

 

 

By, the way, get this Amiga LN3 into 2:1 ratio but it isn't CPC Pallete nor I even know how much colours are here:

Turning this into CPC would need:

-> Doesn't have all those Browns and if Browns another colour (Reds?)

-> CPC just have 1 Gray then substitute one of them (probably the light one) to one of their Pale Greens.

-> (...)

 

Anyone with some Painting program could get this just in similar CPC colours Pallete?

Just wondering how LN could look using the CPC Pallete...

 

This is not the way to do it, mapping the palettes onto a forced image because the luminance and chroma will not match and photoshop will make bad choices.

 

But I can't be bothered to spend hours on this and start mapping the colours with a colour replacer tool so here you go...as it is on photoshop.

[emkay]

I see Gr. 7 and the lores modes more as "fallback options" than anything else.

 

The biggest "A8 milestone" of the last decade was/is Space Harrier. Bizarre .... bizarre

Edited December 2, 2011 by emkay

[emkay]

You know my battle and the soft sprites with PMs it's always a battle that I want to see in action...

 

 

Don Quixotte? Windmills?

[Rybags]

Star Raiders is 8K and works with 8K RAM and uses Gr. 7.

 

Means nothing - it's a milestone game of it's era thanks to it's gameplay and uniqueness at the time but isn't the best thing to happen for the A8 or computers in general.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Rybags

[+Stephen]

I see Gr. 7 and the lores modes more as "fallback options" than anything else.

 

The biggest "A8 milestone" of the last decade was/is Space Harrier. Bizarre .... bizarre

Nothing bizarre about it - Sheddy is an excellent programmer AND he had the luxury of being able to spend a decade polishing it.

[emkay]

I see Gr. 7 and the lores modes more as "fallback options" than anything else.

 

The biggest "A8 milestone" of the last decade was/is Space Harrier. Bizarre .... bizarre

Nothing bizarre about it - Sheddy is an excellent programmer AND he had the luxury of being able to spend a decade polishing it.

 

The bizarre point is that gr. 7 is claimed to be a "fallback option" with Lego Pixel. Gr. 7 made Space Harrier possible as it is.

[emkay]

Star Raiders is 8K and works with 8K RAM and uses Gr. 7.

 

Means nothing - it's a milestone game of it's era thanks to it's gameplay and uniqueness at the time but isn't the best thing to happen for the A8 or computers in general.

 

Starraiders shows what the A8 was made for. Done in 1979, there simply was some programming experience missing, and RAM was very expensive.

 

Having a look at Lucasfilm Games. Guess, why only the Ego View games made it to the customers....

[+Stephen]

The bizarre point is that gr. 7 is claimed to be a "fallback option" with Lego Pixel. Gr. 7 made Space Harrier possible as it is.

Fair enough, you make a valid point. Space Harrier is a great game, and I will keep this in mind when considering Gr.7. I guess when implemented properly, it can look good. What about the fact that he's using a flicker mode? Is that only for color or is there a perceived resolution enhancement as well?

[emkay]

The bizarre point is that gr. 7 is claimed to be a "fallback option" with Lego Pixel. Gr. 7 made Space Harrier possible as it is.

Fair enough, you make a valid point. Space Harrier is a great game, and I will keep this in mind when considering Gr.7. I guess when implemented properly, it can look good. What about the fact that he's using a flicker mode? Is that only for color or is there a perceived resolution enhancement as well?

 

Only for colours.

[José Pereira]

The bizarre point is that gr. 7 is claimed to be a "fallback option" with Lego Pixel. Gr. 7 made Space Harrier possible as it is.

Fair enough, you make a valid point. Space Harrier is a great game, and I will keep this in mind when considering Gr.7. I guess when implemented properly, it can look good. What about the fact that he's using a flicker mode? Is that only for color or is there a perceived resolution enhancement as well?

 

Only for colours.

 

Only for colours that with the luminances used not only reduce flicker but also more colours and some flicker makes the GR.7 'Lego pixels' less noticeable ...

 

All Emkay talkings about GR.7 does not get any good game in looking just because GR.7 it's GR.7 and GR.7 it's only 4colours.

To get more you need to use flicker and that worked in Space Harrier but wouldn't work on 2D games.

 

4colours GR.7 and 4or5colours 4Players and 4Missiles would be what you always have in A8...

More cycles isn't the only thing to build a game.

 

I remember to talk here about Turrican and Emkay, as usual, came with the GR.7 talking... I am still waiting for his miracle, I am still waiting to see how, using GR.7 we would get Turrican...

But, I think we are all waiting for Emkay showing us his believes.

Edited December 2, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

 

 

 

Only for colours that with the luminances used not only reduce flicker but also more colours and some flicker makes the GR.7 'Lego pixels' less noticeable ...

 

All Emkay talkings about GR.7 does not get any good game in looking just because GR.7 it's GR.7 and GR.7 it's only 4colours.

To get more you need to use flicker and that worked in Space Harrier but wouldn't work on 2D games.

 

4colours GR.7 and 4or5colours 4Players and 4Missiles would be what you always have in A8...

More cycles isn't the only thing to build a game.

 

I remember to talk here about Turrican and Emkay, as usual, came with the GR.7 talking... I am still waiting for his miracle, I am still waiting to see how, using GR.7 we would get Turrican...

But, I think we are all waiting for Emkay showing us his believes.

 

 

 

You get really boring . Gr. 7 isn't neccesarily limited to 4 colours. You can also use PM overlays, and vice versa to charmode, you can do very much colourchanges, also midline, and have more speed for the game itself.

 

[emkay]

And....

 

Using charmode 200 lines high 48 byte (for scrolling), the CPU has barely 1.1MHz availalble.

That's why charmode is only good, if you have reusable parts on the screen.

[emkay]

Gr. 7 is fast enough to handle every byte on the screen directly. Thus you can do fullscreen animations and game handling without lacking of gameplay.

 

That's why everything fits in Yoomp!.

[José Pereira]

Only for colours that with the luminances used not only reduce flicker but also more colours and some flicker makes the GR.7 'Lego pixels' less noticeable ...

 

All Emkay talkings about GR.7 does not get any good game in looking just because GR.7 it's GR.7 and GR.7 it's only 4colours.

To get more you need to use flicker and that worked in Space Harrier but wouldn't work on 2D games.

 

4colours GR.7 and 4or5colours 4Players and 4Missiles would be what you always have in A8...

More cycles isn't the only thing to build a game.

 

I remember to talk here about Turrican and Emkay, as usual, came with the GR.7 talking... I am still waiting for his miracle, I am still waiting to see how, using GR.7 we would get Turrican...

But, I think we are all waiting for Emkay showing us his believes.

 

 

 

You get really boring . Gr. 7 isn't neccesarily limited to 4 colours. You can also use PM overlays, and vice versa to charmode, you can do very much colourchanges, also midline, and have more speed for the game itself.

 

You can get everything. Indeed in your mind everything it's possible in GR.7.

 

You can do PMs. re-use, you can do Mid-scanline colours change,... Yes you can do but in static images.

In games you can can only that in static screen games (Tezz is doing some colours mid-scanlines changing...)

In your loving 3D games, in Space Harrier type you're limited to 4colours and 4Players and 4Missiles.

If you use PMs. under/overlays for gfxs. you don't have them for the guys.

 

 

It's you that are boring with your always GR.7 talkings.

[José Pereira]

Gr. 7 is fast enough to handle every byte on the screen directly. Thus you can do fullscreen animations and game handling without lacking of gameplay.

 

That's why everything fits in Yoomp!.

 

And that why Yoomp it's only 4colours, the 4colours of a GR.7 screen.

[emkay]

Gr. 7 is fast enough to handle every byte on the screen directly. Thus you can do fullscreen animations and game handling without lacking of gameplay.

 

That's why everything fits in Yoomp!.

 

And that why Yoomp it's only 4colours, the 4colours of a GR.7 screen.

 

 

I see. You really don't see what Yoomp! is in the 8 Bit world. So I cannot explain that it was a good way for a solution to have the game running.

 

 

A "3D" game running at the resolution of "160x200" with full graphical displaying at 25fps. Which means the game's movement is at the same resolution. No raster tricks, full drawing of the tube. The next machine doing this.... hm Jaguar could do. Or the Lynx (1989). Most graphicial Details of Wolf 3D on the PC were lower than that. ...

 

[emkay]

Seems, Amaurote has been "boosted" somehow already.

As the object data is shifted stored in RAM.

Just like having 8 frames (1-8 )

Linear memory:

 

 

1-4 bytes in a row , x1-x8 animation frames , one line :

 

11,12,13,14,21,22,23,24,31,32,33,34,41,42,43,44,51,52,53,54,61,62,63,64,71,72,73,74,81,82,83,84

Resulting in 32 Bytes shift.

Which means, the read and write of a byte can be done with the same "x" register setting on a 32 byte wide screen.

 

Is this used in Bomb Jake or other "pre shifting" technique using programs?

Edited December 8, 2011 by emkay

[emkay]

The built in routine seems only to work fast, when moving to the right. Moving to the left, it doesn't work well.

Possibly an additional split of that routine for left movement is a solution?

[emkay]

And, ofcourse the explosions had to be done with EOR , to remove slowdowns.

[Tezz]

Seems, Amaurote has been "boosted" somehow already.

As the object data is shifted stored in RAM.

Just like having 8 frames (1-8 )

Linear memory:

 

 

1-4 bytes in a row , x1-x8 animation frames , one line :

 

11,12,13,14,21,22,23,24,31,32,33,34,41,42,43,44,51,52,53,54,61,62,63,64,71,72,73,74,81,82,83,84

Resulting in 32 Bytes shift.

Which means, the read and write of a byte can be done with the same "x" register setting on a 32 byte wide screen.

 

Is this used in Bomb Jake or other "pre shifting" technique using programs?

Yes it does, that way it's the least taxing although with the inevitable memory trade off. Preshifted frames for speed with page aligned shape tables repointing indexes for redraw via minimal optimised procedures is as good as it gets. I'm always trying a different approach when writing the procedures to top what I've written previously even if it ends up only saving a few cycles it's been worthwhile. Edited December 8, 2011 by Tezz

[emkay]

The question is, why is it slowing down, when moving to the left? Seems, it does more calculations when moving to the left, and less calculations when moving to the right.