Chris Strong Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) That's great! Finding the disks is hard enough, the cartridge must be one of a kind. I'm wondering if one of those disks can be used with this cartridge? This weekend I'll try ot hook up two drives, but if it needs an 815 I'm out of luck Do you know anything about the disk format this cartridge is looking for? DBFA or DBFARE? It should be close enough of a test with two double-density (like Happy 1050) drives. Not Dual-Density 1050s... If we don't figure anything out, I could try burning the EPROMS to a cartridge and try it with an 815 to see if that makes a difference. One of my rarest carts is a prototype of Gremlins for the 800. I've never seen even a listing about it, and it's got to have been just before The Crash. The financial stuff is even less well known. Edited February 23, 2012 by Chris Strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 One of my rarest carts is a prototype of Gremlins for the 800. I've never seen even a listing about it, and it's got to have been just before The Crash. The financial stuff is even less well known. You have a proto for the 8-bit gremlins? Is it a production label or just a lab label? I know there's artwork for the 8-bit box, but I've never seen the official 8-bit version myself (just a version made from the 5200 port). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Please split off germlins if you can (which is an awsome topic and has my interest), so that this topic won't be hiJacked, Thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) 8-bit box art?!? Wow, never seen or heard of it. My cart is not even a production label, it's a hand-written sticker. I got it from an Atari Engineer several years ago along with several other prototypes. It was the only really rare one in the lot; I think another was a french version of that cartridge spelling game. It is one of the ones in the dark-bown plastic XEGS style cartridge shell as I recall. Sorry, did not mean to run off onto other subjects. We can start a new thread about this if we want to. Edited February 23, 2012 by Chris Strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 One of the accessories required is CXL4002 Basic Cart. Could it be that CXL8001 is just a basic program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I wouldn't think so because: 1.) A ran it on an 800XL and 1200XL. 2.) The disks might have since they were disks. 3.) It's a cartridge, how would you load basic if not from the system i.e. 800XL Sorry, I thought you meant needed BASIC to run. What it is written in I'm not sure but BASIC App on a cart? Can you deploy/wrap BASIC on carts for the 800? Edited February 23, 2012 by chrislynn5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qix_maniac Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 One of my rarest carts is a prototype of Gremlins for the 800. I've never seen even a listing about it, and it's got to have been just before The Crash. The financial stuff is even less well known. You have a proto for the 8-bit gremlins? Is it a production label or just a lab label? I know there's artwork for the 8-bit box, but I've never seen the official 8-bit version myself (just a version made from the 5200 port). I have gremlins for 8-bit on disk (hacked) ...you sure someone did not just put it on cart and stick label on it? can we see pic please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I will reply to the Gremlins cart in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Regarding the PFMS, I was able to get to it. It has a module called "checkbook balancer". One possibility I considered is that this was a "master cartridge" and it was to be used with disks for each module...sort of like the Educational Software, but I can't figure out why you would do that. Unless it was to cut down on RAM space and try to keep the whole program fitting into 8K or 16K. Here are some photos of the PFMS software. It makes its own data disks, I doubt these will help as they are normal DOS 2 formatted. There is a "checkbook" module, that fits in neatly with the theory of this cartridge... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 If the cart boots DOS and does I/O via CIO/Dos calls, the type of disk or drive it needs should be irrelevant. In any case, emulated drives via SIO2PC can be practically anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 If the cart boots DOS and does I/O via CIO/Dos calls, the type of disk or drive it needs should be irrelevant. In any case, emulated drives via SIO2PC can be practically anything. ..if it is making the "Error" noise, it may be trying to set the drive to double-density. I don't remember the sequence to do that, and I think the scheme used by the 3rd party drive vendors was the same as the "released" version of the 815, but you never know. If you're using it with a stock 810/1050, it won't work. There are two different 815 logic boards and there is a difference between them. I just don't remember the details; I rarely get time to play with my Atari stuff anymore and it's all gone foggy over the last few years, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I double-checked with Phaeron, and the "KPS" and "S" is only the keyboard and screen being opened, not filenames at all. My misunderstanding reading the output of Altirra's debugger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 This may be a stupid question, but you've tried using this cartridge with a normal DOS 2.0 disk, right? Meaning a DOS disk with the DOS and DUP packages on it? Because a lot of those cartridges (4002, 4003, 4018, rx8039) boot and then load the DOS disk handlers. Are you getting the "error 144" sound (can't find file), the "booted with no disk drive" sound, or does it turn on the disk motor and pause? Sorry, too many years have gone by and I'm not up to looking at the code and deciphering it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ok, I spent a little more time with this... It seems like it does this: clears $800-8FF clears $80-FF extracts the strings from the cartridge to $2E00 (does some other stuff, not sure what) does a jmp to $1403 (see this at $A5B9... which is jsred to if $2295 = $22). I'm thinking that this isn't looking to load DOS at all. Why overwrite $800 which should be in the DOS.SYS space? Also, why jmp to $1403? That should also be in the DOS.SYS memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) This may be a stupid question, but you've tried using this cartridge with a normal DOS 2.0 disk, right? Meaning a DOS disk with the DOS and DUP packages on it? Because a lot of those cartridges (4002, 4003, 4018, rx8039) boot and then load the DOS disk handlers. Are you getting the "error 144" sound (can't find file), the "booted with no disk drive" sound, or does it turn on the disk motor and pause? Sorry, too many years have gone by and I'm not up to looking at the code and deciphering it right now. All I've had time to try is to format a disk with I believe 2 or 2.5 and after inserting cartirdge the dialog comes up asking for that file and then keep recycling on it. I'm using a stock 1050 drive, and have tried the cart on 400/800/800xl/1200xl (the 400 got it to dump the screen shots I posted). I might have a happy 1050, I need to check. My thoughts are that you might be right, it needs a disk to set-up the files, but the cart runs it all. weird that they used the 815 when it was so scarice. Also, I'm not getting an error beep or sound, the drive cycles and comes back to dialog after key press. Would some video help? This weekend I can chekc what drives I have. Would a happy 810 work? Edited February 24, 2012 by chrislynn5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Well, the 815 is just a guess given the era. It's doubtful; a shot-in-the dark. Remember they did not think it would be rare, it was going to be the standard-issue disk drive. They had no idea it was going to crash and burn. Atari junked most of the 810 components, sold them surplus, planning to bring out the 815. Then both the manufacture cost (super high) and the reliability of the 815 design (there were two competing 815 designs, one more compatible than the other) was called into question, in particular the power switch design. It was killed, but Atari was just big and disorganized enough that while a VP was killing the 815, someone else had just purged all of the 810 parts for pennies on the dollar. That's why Atari had no disk drives for a while, opening the door for all the third-party drives to make it big. I would think any double-density drive would work for that test, which means a Happy 1050, Trak, Rana, Percom, Indus, Astra or any other of that type. A normal 1050 or any variety of 810 would not work, as they cannot do the density change. Some video with audio would help. Sorry I am not set up right now to do the tests at my end. I will be by this summer. When you formatted your disk with DOS 2 or 2.5, did you write the DOS files? Like you do with the "H" command from the DUP menu? Edited February 24, 2012 by Chris Strong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Well, the 815 is just a guess given the era. It's doubtful; a shot-in-the dark. Remember they did not think it would be rare, it was going to be the standard-issue disk drive. They had no idea it was going to crash and burn. Atari junked most of the 810 components, sold them surplus, planning to bring out the 815. Then both the manufacture cost (super high) and the reliability of the 815 design (there were two competing 815 designs, one more compatible than the other) was called into question, in particular the power switch design. It was killed, but Atari was just big and disorganized enough that while a VP was killing the 815, someone else had just purged all of the 810 parts for pennies on the dollar. That's why Atari had no disk drives for a while, opening the door for all the third-party drives to make it big. I would think any double-density drive would work for that test, which means a Happy 1050, Trak, Rana, Percom, Indus, Astra or any other of that type. A normal 1050 or any variety of 810 would not work, as they cannot do the density change. Some video with audio would help. Sorry I am not set up right now to do the tests at my end. I will be by this summer. When you formatted your disk with DOS 2 or 2.5, did you write the DOS files? Like you do with the "H" command from the DUP menu? No I don't think I formatted with those files. This weekend I plan on taking some more time, if there are any configurations, etc you thin kI need to try, I'm open to do those this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) I would think any double-density drive would work for that test, which means a Happy 1050, Trak, Rana, Percom, Indus, Astra or any other of that type. A normal 1050 or any variety of 810 would not work, as they cannot do the density change. Some video with audio would help. Sorry I am not set up right now to do the tests at my end. I will be by this summer. When you formatted your disk with DOS 2 or 2.5, did you write the DOS files? Like you do with the "H" command from the DUP menu? There doesn't appear to be any disk i/o done after you see the prompt and press any key. It just cold starts the machine. I did try using a disk with DOS files on it. DOS.SYS boots like you would expect, and then the cartridge takes over and gives you the prompt, then does a cold start. That behaviour, combined with the clearing of parts of DOS memory, and the jumps into RAM, make me think that the disk that goes with this is a BOOT disk, that actually loads code into RAM. Perhaps they did this for copy protection... ?? Of course, I could be wrong about all that, but from what I've seen of the code so far, it certainly looks like it isn't simply looking for a specific format of disk, or files on the disk. PS. I'm tempted to put an AUTORUN.SYS on the disk that loads code in at $1403, and puts $22 at $2295. The cartridge should then execute the code at $1403. Edited February 24, 2012 by Shawn Jefferson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What kind of television monitor is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What kind of television monitor is that? MMmmmmm... And what kind of sandwich is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 MMmmmmm... And what kind of sandwich is that? Judging by the type of bun and the polystyrene container, I would say its a Big Mac. I wonder if that is a Sony television? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Strong Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) MMmmmmm... And what kind of sandwich is that? Judging by the type of bun and the polystyrene container, I would say its a Big Mac. I wonder if that is a Sony television? Yeah, Big Mac. But the TV is an RCA. I know Atari had a lot of Amdek Color-I's and used the Sony Profeel a lot for their displays. But I'm sure that's an RCA logo under the bottom knob. I bet that is Nipper underneath that. Edited February 25, 2012 by Chris Strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 That's healthy eating, and makes you code better These days, I prefer Taco Bell and a huge jug of their Baja Blast Mountain Dew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fibrewire Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yeah, Big Mac. But the TV is an RCA. Thanks Chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Regarding the PFMS, I was able to get to it. It has a module called "checkbook balancer". One possibility I considered is that this was a "master cartridge" and it was to be used with disks for each module...sort of like the Educational Software, but I can't figure out why you would do that. Unless it was to cut down on RAM space and try to keep the whole program fitting into 8K or 16K. Here are some photos of the PFMS software. It makes its own data disks, I doubt these will help as they are normal DOS 2 formatted. There is a "checkbook" module, that fits in neatly with the theory of this cartridge... Are these disks available via ATR? I'm wondering if one of the data disks will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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