Marius Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Beware: completely offtopic reaction @fox-1: in the time you wrote that, you could have called my BBS, AND you could have done a wise chessmove on our game what are your priorities man Haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The data collecting and timing all come from the controller, so I don't see why copy protection would fail on a 1050 that has been modified - as long as we keep the native 1050 mode stock... I'm pretty sure that the 2793 in the 1050 can do anything the 1772 can do, by the way. Bob I think a Speedy-XF (as an upgrade) isn't/wasn't a smart move. The features and specs (while it works reliable) are great but it's not an XF551 anymore. Basically, the only XF parts kept after doing the Speedy-XF upgrade are the power circuit, the mechanic and the WD1772. I think that it's much more convenient to do it the other way around: Take the Speedy-XF design and throw a WD1772 (or "better") at it. Klaus Peters did about the same with the Floppy 2000, which is basically an Atari 1050 with Speedy 1050 upgrade but eliminating the Atari 1050 (uses a slightly modified PC style mechanic). With today's available electronics (in the hands of the right people) I don't think it's a big problem to develop a PCB that's able to drive 8 PC-style disk drive mechanics, both 5,25" and 3,5", and let the Atari handle it as 8 separate Speedy-compatible 180/360/720(/1440?) disk drives, but who really wants such a beast? If it could "emulate" a stock 1050 in handling copy-protected disks 100% I'd surely want such a thing but I think I'm on my own with this :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Hi everyone, Sorry if I sounded peeved yesterday. I posted at the end of a long day. (Make note to myself not to do) Some of the ideas floated I will definitely consider and may very well incorporate, some I have to say no to and some I'll think about for awhile. It doesn't necessarily mean any one idea is good or bad. Not every idea or desire can be included. In the end you will vote with your money when it comes time to offer this up for preorder. I hope I don't disappoint too many. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 @fox-1: in the time you wrote that, you could have called my BBS, AND you could have done a wise chessmove on our game what are your priorities man At the time I wrote that I did a chess move... The data collecting and timing all come from the controller, so I don't see why copy protection would fail on a 1050 that has been modified - as long as we keep the native 1050 mode stock... I'm pretty sure that the 2793 in the 1050 can do anything the 1772 can do, by the way. And still, there exist copy protections which run o.k. on stock 1050 (2793) but not on stock XF551 (1772). Both the controllers may be able to handle them but there is more to it, like disk rotation speed and controller specific op-codes which may return different results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 How about developing a board that would fit a 1050 and XF551? Surely this can de done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 How about developing a board that would fit a 1050 and XF551? Surely this can de done. The premise is to have a dropin replacement with the power supply circuitry external to the case for the XF551. Due to the differences in the external connector layout of the two cases, it is not possible to have the same board shape fit both cases. I am however looking at having two seperate boards one for the XF551 case and the other for the 1050 case. That might well be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Great! Now I can paint my 1050 gray... On a more serious note, are the 1050 upgrade proponents going to use 1.44, 3-1/2" mechs., or if not, where are they going to get ISA 5-1/4" mechs.? Those are hard to come by these days. "Sort-of" compatible 5-1/4" HD mechs are more available, but that seems a poor choice. (That's a general question for the folks desiring a 1050 upgrade.) -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Great! Now I can paint my 1050 gray... On a more serious note, are the 1050 upgrade proponents going to use 1.44, 3-1/2" mechs., or if not, where are they going to get ISA 5-1/4" mechs.? Those are hard to come by these days. "Sort-of" compatible 5-1/4" HD mechs are more available, but that seems a poor choice. (That's a general question for the folks desiring a 1050 upgrade.) -Larry That is a good question. I would assume that at least you would be able to use a 3 1/2" drive mech but I don't know if the XF551 drive mech would fit. I've got a 1050 case and a XF551 drive mech. I suppose I could check the fit. I just recently purchased a XF551 drive mech off ebay. They do come up every now and then, but no they are not common now. Other compatible drive mechs might be more available but then the question becomes can they fit the 1050 case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Great! Now I can paint my 1050 gray... On a more serious note, are the 1050 upgrade proponents going to use 1.44, 3-1/2" mechs., or if not, where are they going to get ISA 5-1/4" mechs.? Those are hard to come by these days. "Sort-of" compatible 5-1/4" HD mechs are more available, but that seems a poor choice. (That's a general question for the folks desiring a 1050 upgrade.) -Larry The standard WD1772 used in the XF551/520ST/1040ST is only designed for DD(250kbit/s) operation, Atari used the WD1772PH02-02 or AJAX/C302096 chips to achieve HD(500kbit/s) operation in the STE and other models. This means that the most the XF551 can be reasonably upgraded to is DSDD/720KB 3.5" capacity, most 1.44MB 3.5" FDD mechanisms should be fine for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Not quite what I meant. First, I'm not talking about using the drive(s) as HD. DD only. That's a given. 3-1/2, 1.44 MB mechs are still quite available. A few folks will argue that 1.44's don't work as good as 720K's (at DD/720K), but my experience is that a good quality 1.44 mech works just fine at 720K. Most of mine are "Sony" which still means that it was likely made by someone else, but to Sony specs. 5-1/4" HD will work at DD, but the tracks are different width, leading to problems. But the real problem is where would folks buy ISA 360K drives? Hard to find and pricey. Personally, I think the 720K solution is better, but a few folks like 360K. I hadn't really considered if the ISA 5-1/4" HH mech would fit in a 1050 case, but I suspect that with a little mechanical creativity, it can be made to fit. I'll check the fit in the next day or so, if someone else doesn't beat me to it. -Larry Great! Now I can paint my 1050 gray... On a more serious note, are the 1050 upgrade proponents going to use 1.44, 3-1/2" mechs., or if not, where are they going to get ISA 5-1/4" mechs.? Those are hard to come by these days. "Sort-of" compatible 5-1/4" HD mechs are more available, but that seems a poor choice. (That's a general question for the folks desiring a 1050 upgrade.) -Larry The standard WD1772 used in the XF551/520ST/1040ST is only designed for DD(250kbit/s) operation, Atari used the WD1772PH02-02 or AJAX/C302096 chips to achieve HD(500kbit/s) operation in the STE and other models. This means that the most the XF551 can be reasonably upgraded to is DSDD/720KB 3.5" capacity, most 1.44MB 3.5" FDD mechanisms should be fine for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Well, if we are gonna go with a 3.5" then I suggest making a drop in board for external ST drives to convert them for use on the 8BIT (aka XF351). You can either cut holes on the back or come up with some wacky adapter to go from round plugs to the standard SIO. Of course, since we are on this topic... of random dreams... why not just reproduce the original XF351/354. Heck, I'd like a set of plastics to turn an XF551 into the model shown on the XEGS boxes. Edited July 6, 2012 by kheller2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Well, if we are gonna go with a 3.5" then I suggest making a drop in board for external ST drives to convert them for use on the 8BIT (aka XF351). 100 per cent in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 How does it fit in a 1050? It fits with the two mechs that I tried, but not a drop-in. Will require some modest drilling and/or file work, depending on the particular drive and mech front face plate (as well as the necessary electrical connections). Here are some pics: The first "candidate" is a stock XF551 Mitsumi mech. it's holes will not quite fit on the 1050 mounting posts, and the drive sets about .060" too far to the back for the 1050 face plate to fit correctly. The second candidate is a Epson 5-1/4" HD/1.44 HD combo drive. Fits fine, but the mech face plate is maybe .010" too wide. A file could correct this. Note: this combo drive adaptation in a XF551 has been done before. IIRC, AtariMax did one or two and sold them on eBay quite a few years ago. Drives were selected mechanically -- switch. Again, remember that a 5-1/4" HD is essentially only "read compatible" with DD disks. -Larry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Looks like the dropin of XF551 drive mech into a 1050 case is a no go. Still poss for other drive mechs to fit with a little elbow grease and filing. One other thing I noticed is the power switch and led on the front of the 1050. My main board design would not normally be that long, so some kind of jury rig would be needed. Hmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Bananas, cherry tomatoes... are you doing Atari on your kitchen table? Most of the 5.25 drives I have tried (TEACs, mainly) fit on the pins OK but are 1/8" too long. They come out almost to the very front edge of the bezel. This is after I introduce the edges of the front plate to my belt sander for a couple of thousanths. The 3.5 adaptors that I have fit perfectly... Bob How does it fit in a 1050? It fits with the two mechs that I tried, but not a drop-in. Will require some modest drilling and/or file work, depending on the particular drive and mech front face plate (as well as the necessary electrical connections). Here are some pics: The first "candidate" is a stock XF551 Mitsumi mech. it's holes will not quite fit on the 1050 mounting posts, and the drive sets about .060" too far to the back for the 1050 face plate to fit correctly. The second candidate is a Epson 5-1/4" HD/1.44 HD combo drive. Fits fine, but the mech face plate is maybe .010" too wide. A file could correct this. Note: this combo drive adaptation in a XF551 has been done before. IIRC, AtariMax did one or two and sold them on eBay quite a few years ago. Drives were selected mechanically -- switch. Again, remember that a 5-1/4" HD is essentially only "read compatible" with DD disks. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uunek Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I'm interested in 1 fully populated board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 "Bananas, cherry tomatoes... are you doing Atari on your kitchen table?" Best light in the house for photos! -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Update: Proto board is in. Right away I know I am going to have to redo the holes and external connector placement. It doesn't quite fit the case. I coulda sworn I measured twice. Anyway I knew this proto board was just that. Here's a little eye candy until I populate it and start testing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venom4728a Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Any luck with getting the proto board assembled? I have 6 wd chips, 2 8050 and 2 8040, and 4 of the eproms. Still need to order an eprom burner, I have several roms I want to do for various projects. Best Regards Robert Miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropcheck Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share Posted August 2, 2012 Well time for an update: I have assembled the board except for the high dollar parts. For two reasons I wanted to ohm out the board and then when I applied power I didn't want the board parts to go puff! Here is the latest pic. Now I have ohmed it and didn't see any obvious snafus except I have the on/off switch backwards. Easy fix on the final board. Then I applied power. It didn't go puff! So I didn't make any major wiring errors. But I am getting way to high a voltage on the power in pins on the sockets, 12V on all the Vcc pins. I think I've tied the 12V to them somehow. They should only read around 5V. It's time to go back to my schematic and see where I screwed up. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venom4728a Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 Looks nice! Way to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Looks great - good luck debugging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Well time for an update: I have assembled the board except for the high dollar parts. For two reasons I wanted to ohm out the board and then when I applied power I didn't want the board parts to go puff! Here is the latest pic. Now I have ohmed it and didn't see any obvious snafus except I have the on/off switch backwards. Easy fix on the final board. Then I applied power. It didn't go puff! So I didn't make any major wiring errors. But I am getting way to high a voltage on the power in pins on the sockets, 12V on all the Vcc pins. I think I've tied the 12V to them somehow. They should only read around 5V. It's time to go back to my schematic and see where I screwed up. You probably just got the +5V/+12V connections to the power supply socket crossed, it is easy to do when dealing with M/F connections. I do notice that your drive mechanism power supply connection is male, the same connector used on standard 5.25" mechanisms. I would have thought it should be female so that a 5.25" FDD/HDD power extension cable could be used. A FDD/HDD power supply cable/connector from an old/failed power supply could instead be soldered to the PC board(I think most people could supply this part) eliminating the need for an extension, this is basically what Atari did on the original circuit board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Beautiful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Lenore, why you're using Mini-DIN6 for power? there are POWER DIN3 and 4 that you can buy off-the-shelve PSU for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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