WTF is going on here?

[+remowilliams]

I think part of the problem is that you had Atari fans who bought into the Jag hook, line, and sinker, only to discover that it wasn't all that great. However rather than dumping the system and getting a better on, they decided that they were in too deep to back out now, put blinders on, and dug in.

 

That's a huge part of it I'm sure.

 

Also, Atari's mass dumping of unsold Jaguars into mental health wards.

 

 

[SoulBlazer]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts and replies on this. I was hoping to get some good reponses and have. I'm also impressed that things here have stayed civil.

[the.golden.ax]

Lots of things stay Civil

 

[mtshark7]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts and replies on this. I was hoping to get some good reponses and have. I'm also impressed that things here have stayed civil.

 

Don't hold your breath...I'm sure this thread will be locked soon enough

[108 Stars]

Great thread here. I like to see it that for some akward reason people can suddenly say that the Jaguar games maybe were not all that great without being shred to pieces.

 

I have a soft spot for the Jaguar for its history, and because I like some games on it; and, BIG reason, because guys like reboot do new Jaguar games nowadays. But there is no denying imo that the system was seriously flawed in many aspects; be it games that should never have gotten through QA, be it hardware problems that crippled performance, incompetent management and a controller from hell. No, do't tell me it's for big hands: I have big hands. It is not for them. It is just a bad design ergonomically with strange shallow buttons and d-pad. I hear the pro controller fixes a lot of those issues, but I never held one in my hands.

 

It's perfectly fine being a fan of a system with flaws; nobody can deny the Jag has a certain charm to it. People shouldn't take this stuff so serious, and it's nice to see that here.

 

AND, being a Lynx fan I must say that much of the same can be said for the Lynx too. When it comes to the game selection most (not all!) games were either mediocre or just outdated for the time (the golden age classics), and it leaves me puzzled that Atari did not pursue to get some better games on the machine. I always think that with the japanese and Americans only caring for Nintendo Atari should have approached European devs more actively; Europeans were mostly into homecomputers, and while some great games were made there they shied away from paying Nintendo's and Sega's licensing fees.

But it did not happen, and the result was an expensive brick with relatively few games anybody would play if not forced to. But like the Jag it has its charm, and the homebrewers today make the system really worthwhile.

[Cobra Kai]

The Atari Jaguar has some of the very best video games ever created. That alone makes it worth owning the system for, regardless of the quality of the rest of the library.

 

I think to purposely come here to disparage the Jaguar is trolling and asking to be rebutted by the rest of us who are actually familiar with the game library. It's defensive in nature yes, and it reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Lisa has a dream about being runner-up her whole life, where she's in a band with other famous runner-ups, playing a song called "born to runner up" and the crowd is booing them. She wakes up and says, "why would they come to just to boo us?"

 

The moral of the story is why come here if you think the Jag sucked so much? That's not directed at any one person, but it is the basis for so much vitriol against so-called Jag-haters, and believe me, we've had many of this very type of troll over the years. That's why there's a special sticky thread by Albert at the top of this forum with special rules for this place.

[Tempest]

The Atari Jaguar has some of the very best video games ever created.

Such as? I'm just curious as to what you consider 'the very best' in the Jag library.

[CPUWIZ]

Such as? I'm just curious as to what you consider 'the very best' in the Jag library.

 

Tempest 2000, one of the best games ever, on any system.

[+Sauron]

Tempest 2k and AvP are games that people think of when they think of the Jag. I agree with CPUWIZ, T2K is one of the best games ever. AvP I wouldn't quite put in that same category, but hell, just how many AvP games were around at the time? It was definitely one of the most unique FPS games for its time.

[Tempest]

Tempest 2k and AvP are games that people think of when they think of the Jag. I agree with CPUWIZ, T2K is one of the best games ever. AvP I wouldn't quite put in that same category, but hell, just how many AvP games were around at the time? It was definitely one of the most unique FPS games for its time.

I'll give you those. I always thought AvP was a bit overrated though.

[Reaperman]

Tempest 2000, one of the best games ever, on any system.

That's an interesting one. It's my favorite game on Jag, no doubt. I liked it enough to buy t3k.

 

When it hit saturn it was slightly improved over the jag version, but even with those graphical improvements, the saturn version was still a total nothing in its library. A solid, but average/forgettable saturn title, was the best game ever on jag--and they really are about the same game. I think tempest 2k's popularity had a good bit to do with it being a comparatively big fish in jag's very small pond. Fun game, though.

 

For a Jag positive, Super Burnout has aged very well. It's one of the better rear-view sprite motorcycle games I can think up. (I don't generally care for the ones with combat) I'd say moto racer advance takes the genre crown IMO, but Super Burnout is *very* high on that list.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Reaperman

[+remowilliams]

Tempest 2000, one of the best games ever, on any system.

 

100%

 

It's the sole reason I had a Jag for a long time. I bought a controller just to play with that game. It's that good.

 

But the classic Jag library on the whole, it's pretty dire and/or better done elsewhere...

[Austin]

The moral of the story is why come here if you think the Jag sucked so much? That's not directed at any one person, but it is the basis for so much vitriol against so-called Jag-haters, and believe me, we've had many of this very type of troll over the years. That's why there's a special sticky thread by Albert at the top of this forum with special rules for this place.

 

It's safe to say that the reason any of us posts here regularly is because we don't think the Jaguar sucks. But, that's not to say that we should blindly give it more praise than it probably deserves (not without rational thought, anyway).

[+wood_jl]

QUICK!!! Here's Tempest X3 (same damn thing on Playstation, if not better because it was later) for $5.48 plus shipping.

 

The PS version ROCKS. You can get the disc for $5.50, and here is a specific Ebay example, at that price:

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 360489323243[/ebay[

 

It's $4 shipping, so still less than $9.50, shipped.

 

Here's a mouse.....

 

[ebay]180804015853

 

....that gives ***excellent*** analog control, for $7.00 ($1 plus $6 shipping = $7.

 

 

So, for less than $20, you can have Tempest X3 (PS1 version of T2K, and *with* good analog control.....for less than $20, DELIVERED TO YOUR DOOR (with enough change to get a cheeseburger).

 

Now, how much are Jag rotary controllers going for, again? Or how many times this $20 threshold is it? How much better (or worse (and why, of couse)) is the game?

 

 

Even Tempest 2000 on Saturn was good. But the cheapest-of-all PS1 version, with the cheapest-of all (if you wish to argue this point, I'll just point to some completed Ebay listings) yet kick-ass control scheme is dirt cheap. I'm ever-so-sorry that THAT fact chaps some people's asses so bady (not really, but I'm playing nice for the next few minutes.).

Edited September 21, 2012 by wood_jl

[Reaperman]

It's safe to say that the reason any of us posts here regularly is because we don't think the Jaguar sucks. But, that's not to say that we should blindly give it more praise than it probably deserves (not without rational thought, anyway).

Sure, and even then, so what if it does kind of suck? I don't have to call the jag the best system out there to have fun with it every so often. It's not somehow unworthy of my time. I certainly don't hate it, but yeah, I think that it's probably somewhere in the bottom half. Heck, Action Max is about the worst system I can name--even it's got its charm, and I had some fun burning away a weekend with it.

 

Power Drive Rally, Super Burnout, Tempest 2000, Iron Soldier, Hoverstrike--all worth a play or two for sure.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Reaperman

[Cobra Kai]

It's safe to say that the reason any of us posts here regularly is because we don't think the Jaguar sucks. But, that's not to say that we should blindly give it more praise than it probably deserves (not without rational thought, anyway).

This is the case today, but not the case well before you joined up. I'm only trying to explain why I think there's so much attitude here, which is the whole point of this thread. It's my view of what happened.

Such as? I'm just curious as to what you consider 'the very best' in the Jag library.

I didn't think what I wrote was very controversial, so no need to back it up. T2k is widely regarded in many other gaming forums I've frequented to be one of the greatest video game achievements. Actually it's been a long time since we had a 'best of' discussion, but I'm not doing that in here, it'd be a waste.

That's an interesting one. It's my favorite game on Jag, no doubt. I liked it enough to buy t3k.

 

When it hit saturn it was slightly improved over the jag version, but even with those graphical improvements, the saturn version was still a total nothing in its library. A solid, but average/forgettable saturn title, was the best game ever on jag--and they really are about the same game. I think tempest 2k's popularity had a good bit to do with it being a comparatively big fish in jag's very small pond. Fun game, though.

 

For a Jag positive, Super Burnout has aged very well. It's one of the better rear-view sprite motorcycle games (I don't generally care for the ones with combat). I'd say moto racer advance takes the genre crown, IMO, but Super Burnout is *very* high on that list.

 

This is just a difference in opinion, nothing more. To me, T2k and Defender 2k are the very definition of 'video game'. The high pulse arcade action is exactly what I desire. The entire experience of playing these games brings me great enjoyment, more so than anything else I've ever played on Saturn, which was also a console that was a dismal failure in the USA, but I wouldn't deny that it had good games, nor ridicule people for liking games on that machine that I thought sucked. Nor would I call people irrational for having the Saturn as their favorite game console. What you call an average game on Saturn, someone else thinks that T2k on Saturn may have been amongst the best games on the system.

 

This is an ATARI website. People should be able to be huge fans of ATARI here without being labeled irrational, or have to prove their 'rationality' by publicly acknowledging that yes, many Jaguar games aren't very good. For the Jaguar, at least Tempest 2k would be in my all-time top ten video games of all time, easily. Maybe the number 1 game, it is absolutely perfect as a video game, to me. I don't find much value in RPG's, to me those are generally boring and tedious, and very time consuming. They aren't for me, but many people's number one game is some variation of Final Fantasy, but I'm not going to go to a final fantasy forum and talk about how boring they are, and try to get people to admit they are boring. That would be trolling.

[sh3-rg]

Now, how much are Jag rotary controllers going for, again?

 

Fairly ridiculous amounts, which is bizarre when you consider you can modify your own for under $5.

 

I've just set up an eBay search for Tempest x3 on the PlayStation, never played this one and as a Sony and Atari fanboi it makes sense I should. None on eBay UK just now that are complete, so I'll keep waiting...

[+Sauron]

QUICK!!! Here's Tempest X3 (same damn thing on Playstation, if not better because it was later) for $5.48 plus shipping.

 

The PS version ROCKS. You can get the disc for $5.50, and here is a specific Ebay example, at that price:

 

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 360489323243[/ebay[

 

It's $4 shipping, so still less than $9.50, shipped.

 

Here's a mouse.....

 

[ebay]180804015853

 

....that gives ***excellent*** analog control, for $7.00 ($1 plus $6 shipping = $7.

 

 

So, for less than $20, you can have Tempest X3 (PS1 version of T2K, and *with* good analog control.....for less than $20, DELIVERED TO YOUR DOOR (with enough change to get a cheeseburger).

 

Now, how much are Jag rotary controllers going for, again? Or how many times this $20 threshold is it? How much better (or worse (and why, of couse)) is the game?

 

 

Even Tempest 2000 on Saturn was good. But the cheapest-of-all PS1 version, with the cheapest-of all (if you wish to argue this point, I'll just point to some completed Ebay listings) yet kick-ass control scheme is dirt cheap. I'm ever-so-sorry that THAT fact chaps some people's asses so bady (not really, but I'm playing nice for the next few minutes.).

 

There are basic gameplay differences between the Jag version and the others that doesn't quite make them the same game. However, people also tend to forget a few things. T2K came out on the Jag well before the PSX or Saturn were launched. On top of that, the Saturn and PSX versions only came out well after it was clear that the Jag was dead. Same goes for Doom, as well. I don't think it's necessarily fair to compare those versions considering the time difference between them.

[+CyranoJ]

I always found Tempest x3 to be way more fun to play. It was one of the first PSX games I picked up. Could just be because the controller isn't a jagpad tho?

[CPUWIZ]

Hook, line and sinker.

[+CyranoJ]

Nah, nobody is playing Sega Bass Fishing And those dreamcast fishing controllers are dime a dozen

[Austin]

This is the case today, but not the case well before you joined up.

 

C'mon, I've been around since well before I joined up here. Like others have already stated, it has been this way since the beginning.

[Mxyzptlk]

There are basic gameplay differences between the Jag version and the others that doesn't quite make them the same game. However, people also tend to forget a few things. T2K came out on the Jag well before the PSX or Saturn were launched. On top of that, the Saturn and PSX versions only came out well after it was clear that the Jag was dead. Same goes for Doom, as well. I don't think it's necessarily fair to compare those versions considering the time difference between them.

Why even point out anything to Wood jl? He is just doing (after much Jaguar forum reading) what they (Jaguar haters) do. I am almost thinking it is a challenge between the Jaguar haters (or even a few of the homebrewers) on who can be the biggest jerk.

[Cobra Kai]

C'mon, I've been around since well before I joined up here. Like others have already stated, it has been this way since the beginning.

 

Not really. This particular forum was a troll battleground for a long time. What do you think this thread is about: http://www.atariage....before-posting/

 

There is no intervention thread like that on any other forum here. It's been ok for awhile, but there's still regular blowups, only now it's infighting with programmers. And I don't like this idea that one is a rational Jaguar owner only when they preface every thing they say by stating obvious things everyone knows, that some of the games suck, which can be said about any game console ever made.

 

I could make a case that the PS1 is an awful console because of Britney's Dance Beat, with the logic that some people here use. "Yes, Castlevania SotN was extraordinary, but we should really focus on Britney's Dance Beat, don't you agree it's awful?"

Edited September 21, 2012 by Nuclear Pacman

[Austin]

Not really. This particular forum was a troll battleground for a long time. What do you think this thread is about: http://www.atariage....before-posting/

 

You're preaching to the choir here, buddy. The Jag community has been shit in that regard for a very, very long time.