Retro Duo Portable

[doomwaves]

This thing looks awesome to me, being that I am huge NES & SNES fan, & a big fan of handhelds/portables.

 

 

I want to say the sell for $80 - $100.

 

Any thoughts? Is this worth my money to buy?

[godslabrat]

We had a pretty good thread on this when it first came out.

 

Short version: As a portable SNES, it's not bad if you can forgive the chintzy D-pad. As a SNES replacement, it loses because of its poor output. The NES adaptor is highly impractical to the point of making that feature a gimmick.

 

I could see taking the plunge if it were under $50, but at nearly $100... no way.

[number six]

I've never really quite understood the point of all these things. Yes they run the original cartridges.. but they are using some form of emulation / system on a chip / whatever so while the cartridge is authentic the play experience isn't going to be any better than an emulator. Given that, why not just get a PSP or a Dingoo ?

 

Is there something i'm missing?

[Lentzquest]

Is there something i'm missing?

 

Grab a cart quick to play on your way to the crapper? Only thing that comes to mind...

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

I've never really quite understood the point of all these things. Yes they run the original cartridges.. but they are using some form of emulation / system on a chip / whatever so while the cartridge is authentic the play experience isn't going to be any better than an emulator. Given that, why not just get a PSP or a Dingoo ?

 

Is there something i'm missing?

 

I think you're right on. Especially units by AtGames and the like, HORRIBLE sound reproduction for the Genesis / Megadrive and for units that play NES there is incompatibility sound and graphic glitches, from everything I have seen 90% of the time the experience is better reproduced using software emulation with ROMS then Hardware emulated and using original carts so no I do not get it either.

YES some folk are really die hard Anti Emulation but many of these so called emulation haters seem to think using the original cartridge is truer to the real thing than using a ROM in software emulation but if that is the case then WHY does it seem the majority of the time all these portables that use carts seem to perform worse than using roms/emulators? The other thing is what is so damn important about using a cart in a portable? does that not pretty much defeat the purpose of a "portable" ? I would much rather use my Dingoo or GP2xCaanoo (or my OpenPandora) that I already own to play my NES/Genesis games with far superior sound and graphic performance not to mention dozens of other classic computers, consoles, handhelds using roms off an SDcard. I could understand IF these knock offs actually performed better or closer to the original using carts but they do not. So I can only assume that many people simply have raging hard ons to use their original cartridges.

Maybe they feel a need to justify the massive cart collections they accumulated and so would rather have portable that uses their carts even if the experience is farther form the original.

Edited November 27, 2012 by OldSchoolRetroGamer

[godslabrat]

I've never really quite understood the point of all these things. Yes they run the original cartridges.. but they are using some form of emulation / system on a chip / whatever so while the cartridge is authentic the play experience isn't going to be any better than an emulator. Given that, why not just get a PSP or a Dingoo ?

 

Is there something i'm missing?

 

Not really. I picked up an FC Mobile II, because I'm a huge NES fan and I loved being able to play my games around the house, possibly on the road. And yes, there is at least some advantage to playing your carts, especially in games with save functions. However, I quickly learned two things:

 

1) NES carts are not portable in the slightest. Having a handheld device does not change this. It's reasonable to sit in another room and play a game, but I have zero motivation to ever take my carts on the road. Given that I want to keep them in good shape, this is a good thing.

 

2) There really isn't much difference in terms of performance between a SOAC and a decent emulator. A handheld console is less work in that I don't have to hack a device and keep a library of ROMs... but aside from that the experience is no more "authentic".

 

I'm still happy to have the FC Mobile II, but if I did have the urge for a handheld that was *truly* portable, I would go the PSP route.

[number six]

Not really. I picked up an FC Mobile II, because I'm a huge NES fan and I loved being able to play my games around the house, possibly on the road. And yes, there is at least some advantage to playing your carts, especially in games with save functions. However, I quickly learned two things:

 

OK what's the advantages then?

 

Seriously I can't think of any with these things. Basically they are mediocre emulators that just read one rom at a time off a catridge versus you supplying it on an SD card.

 

Even the saved games isn't a big deal as you can move those around to different emulators if they are compatible. Now let's say if you are in the middle of zelda on a cartridge and want to take that saved game somewhere else.. perhaps.. but then you have to ask yourself.. why are you playing zelda on a cartridge in the first place? For a more authentic experience.. OK got that.. but the minute you move it to your Duo Happy Twin Fx (or whatever) you've defeated your own purpose.

 

Just saying while these things are cool and easy I just can't get my head around the fact that they don't emulate the original hardware all that well. Even the ease of use is in question because while you do have to hack a PSP you certainly don't have to hack a dingoo.. just throw the roms on there and you are good to go. The Dingoo seems to be cheaper as well.

 

Once again just curious why anyone would prefer this over a more standard emulation device.. that's all.

[Lentzquest]

I guess one advantage is you flip a power switch and play. No menus to work through or boot up. Maybe also that they're usually designed to give a button placement similar to the original hardware.

[Satoshi Matrix]

This thing looks awesome to me, being that I am huge NES & SNES fan, & a big fan of handhelds/portables. Any thoughts? Is this worth my money to buy?

 

Yes. I made a very detailed four part video review of the device. Note that this is the 1.0 - The system has been improved and nearly every issue has been addressed now.

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/194182-retroduo-portable-video-review-portable-snesnes-2-in-1/page__hl__+retro%20+duo%20+portable#entry2467617

 

Short version: As a portable SNES, it's not bad if you can forgive the chintzy D-pad. As a SNES replacement, it loses because of its poor output. The NES adaptor is highly impractical to the point of making that feature a gimmick.

 

I could see taking the plunge if it were under $50, but at nearly $100... no way.

 

Those issues have been fixed with the redesign. I reviewed the project as soon as it was on the market. As with the initial version of anything there are problems to be worked out. I wouldn't say the NES adapter is "impractical", just dissipointing that the NOAC isn't better. I'm not sure if this has been addressed. I hope so. The RDP isn't in the same boat as the cheapy SNES portables, the Supaboy and the FC-16 GO. The price is justifyable for what you get.

 

I've never really quite understood the point of all these things. Yes they run the original cartridges.. but they are using some form of emulation / system on a chip / whatever so while the cartridge is authentic the play experience isn't going to be any better than an emulator. Given that, why not just get a PSP or a Dingoo ?

 

Is there something i'm missing?

 

You either are missing something - the entire point - or no, you aren't missing anything. I'll explainw hat I mean in a minute. First, some corrections:

 

This isn't emulation or a system on a chip. The entire SNES processor minus the CIC has been reverse engineered and runs original cartridges in a 1:1 basis with the authentic hardware. You are absolutelt wrong when you say the experience isn't going to be any better than an emulator. The RDP is free of any emulation flaws. The only thing it lacks is the CIC certification chip which is under copyright projection by Nintendo. Emulators ignore this legal inconvenience, but a company like RetroBit could be sued out of existence if they copied it. As it stands the RDP is legal because it operates outside the bounds of the original file patients for the Super Famicom. The lack of the CIC makes later revisions of a select few games like Mario RPG and Kirby's Dreamland 3 not play, but there are ways around even these limitations.

 

So now to address what you're saying about not understanding the point of the RDP.

 

The RDP is primarily for gamers in the mid 20's to late 30's who fondly remember the SNES , have a collection of/access to/desire to collect SNES cartridges. The RDP doubles as both a handheld SNES - something Nintendo fans have wanted for years upon years - and a standalone console capable of being used with a tv. This begs the question why not simply use a real SNES, but again, that's missing the point - this is cool new tech to recapture nostalgic memories from the past.

 

And then there's emulation. There are a lot of people who swear off emulation for actual hardware just on principle alone, just as there are people who buy music on vinyl records rather than CD or god forbid mp3. I'm not quite on that level, but emulation isn't flawless, especially on the devices you mentioned. The raw ability the RDP has to run SNES games natively at full speed without any glitches or emulation issues alone makes it worthwhile. Add to that the the RDP comes with just about the best controller amongst any of these clones with easily the best dpad I've ever used and I think it's pretty silly to discount this as "meh, emulation is better".

 

But all this is a moot point if you really would prefer emulation and all the problems that accompany it. So again, you either are - or aren't - missing something.

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

Maybe also that they're usually designed to give a button placement similar to the original hardware.

 

Sadly several of them even fail at that. I will take a list of entire collections to choose from, not that it is that slow a process as to be annoying. really everything I hear seems to be feeble attmpts to justify going this route. JUST ADMIT IT PEOPLE YOU CARTRIDFE WHORES lol.

[doomwaves]

Yes. I made a very detailed four part video review of the device.

 

 

I actually watched these videos. They're actually what spurred my interest.. Watched another video where someone picked one up, then found yours reviewing the system..

 

I think I will get one of these, although the mapping of the A & B buttons for NES games freaks me out... Is this still the same on the latest models?

[Satoshi Matrix]

although the mapping of the A & B buttons for NES games freaks me out... Is this still the same on the latest models?

 

Oye oye oye, THAT'S what your concerned about? The fact the NES B and A buttons get mapped to........the B and A buttons, just like the Super GameBoy? Not only is that a logical mapping it is how the majority of all controllers are mapped in Asia, where RetroBit is based. It is unlikely they will switch this to the western Y/B standard. I'm always surprised when I hear people say things like that. It's not like it's some strange broken control mapping or something. Thats very standard. Even CoinOps maps 2 button games like that.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Satoshi Matrix

[number six]

This isn't emulation or a system on a chip. The entire SNES processor minus the CIC has been reverse engineered and runs original cartridges in a 1:1 basis with the authentic hardware. You are absolutelt wrong when you say the experience isn't going to be any better than an emulator. The RDP is free of any emulation flaws. The only thing it lacks is the CIC certification chip which is under copyright projection by Nintendo. Emulators ignore this legal inconvenience, but a company like RetroBit could be sued out of existence if they copied it. As it stands the RDP is legal because it operates outside the bounds of the original file patients for the Super Famicom. The lack of the CIC makes later revisions of a select few games like Mario RPG and Kirby's Dreamland 3 not play, but there are ways around even these limitations.

 

 

If it is an accurate representation of the original hardware I could see some value in it then.

 

I wouldn't use it over a real SNES.. but I guess the portable angle could make some sense as that would fill a unique niche.

 

And I never said I preferred emulation to the real thing.. I just said it didn't make sense to use a device that uses cartridges and offers poor compatibility at the same time. At that point you are getting the worst of both worlds. Most of these devices are pretty crap at recreating the original hardware. If this unit here is different then that's a different case.

Edited November 27, 2012 by number six

[Satoshi Matrix]

Yeah. It's great to take a classic 16 bit RPG and play it on the bus, in bed or on lunch break. The system is large but its certainly an attention grabber. Total strangers have asked me about mine and I'm convinced that a least a few were convinced enough to go out there and get their own. Chrono Trigger DS might be a lot smaller, but Chrono Trigger on the RDP is the truly awesome experience.

[doomwaves]

Oye oye oye, THAT'S what your concerned about? The fact the NES B and A buttons get mapped to........the B and A buttons, just like the Super GameBoy? Not only is that a logical mapping it is how the majority of all controllers are mapped in Asia, where RetroBit is based. It is unlikely they will switch this to the western Y/B standard. I'm always surprised when I hear people say things like that. It's not like it's some strange broken control mapping or something. Thats very standard. Even CoinOps maps 2 button games like that.

 

Whoa nelly... Am I allowed to be concerned about something I am going to shell out for? No matter how small of a detail it is?

 

I am interested in the system yes, but clearly it is much too technical for me..

[Satoshi Matrix]

Whoa nelly... Am I allowed to be concerned about something I am going to shell out for? No matter how small of a detail it is?

 

Well sure you're allowed to voice your opinion. Just as long as you understand that your opinion is wrong

 

In all seriousness though, it's just something you'd have to adjust to. It is unlikely that RetrobIt would change this as it is the way the PokeFamiDX FC Adapter maps Famicom controls.

[doomwaves]

It wasn't even an opinion... Just a question.. And yes, I would like the idea more if it were mapped the same as the other systems I use. Is it a deal breaker? No. Does it matter. No. But I am certainly not wrong in asking the question.

[Satoshi Matrix]

Yes I know, I was making a joke. I didn't intend to offend you.

[doomwaves]

Yes I know, I was making a joke. I didn't intend to offend you.

 

No sweat man. I wasn't offended.

 

I did really enjoy your review on youtube tho...

[Atariboy]

Oye oye oye, THAT'S what your concerned about? The fact the NES B and A buttons get mapped to........the B and A buttons, just like the Super GameBoy? Not only is that a logical mapping it is how the majority of all controllers are mapped in Asia, where RetroBit is based. It is unlikely they will switch this to the western Y/B standard. I'm always surprised when I hear people say things like that. It's not like it's some strange broken control mapping or something. Thats very standard. Even CoinOps maps 2 button games like that.

 

What you don't mention is that Nintendo also includes the option to use Y & B. They recognized that there was demand for a comfortable button layout with a two button platform on a four button controller and provided the option. Having button lettering match isn't nearly as important for many people as it is for you.

 

The only thing logical about using A & B with this layout is so the button lettering matches. And that's great for the first 30 seconds. What isn't logical is that the experience in a game is severely hindered for many after those 30 seconds when they actually start to get down to playing the game and discover that the button layout sucks for something like a platformer that requires simultaneous use of both buttons. And some of these clone manufacturers have recognized that such as the Retro Duo console.

 

Y & B with this button layout should be what two button devices like the NES should always be mapped to. Maximizing comfort and usability should take precedence over making lettering match that nobody ever looks at after a few minutes of using a console.

 

As it stands the RDP is legal because it operates outside the bounds of the original file patients for the Super Famicom.

 

It's legal because the patents have expired. They're not operating outside of them, they've directly copied them.

 

They can't do the lockout chip since the software code involved with it is copyrighted. And copyrights last for decades longer than patents do.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Atariboy

[NinjaWarrior]

I'm used to the Y+B Layout when I play on NES Games on the Retro Duo/Super 8

 

With my Power Plug for the Super NES, I map the B+A Layout to the B+A to the SNES to see if I like it, Nope..I'm to used to the Y+B Layout

[Atariboy]

It's what is naturally comfortable for human hands. Doing something like holding down SuperNes B while hitting A, such as to run and jump in a platformer, isn't comfortable for the human thumb. I'm sure some people like Satoshi Matrix have gotten used to it but that hardly makes it ideal when the alternative is perfectly comfortable and requires nothing to get used to it.

 

Nintendo only does it to make the stupid button letters on the system match those in the game when an action is denoted by the button letter (Such as what Link's Awakening's inventory screens do). They apparently value clarity over playability on backwards compatible DS consoles, when using the Classic Controller with NES titles on the Wii/Wii U, and with the Virtual Console on the 3DS (And sadly some clone companies have seen fit to follow likewise). At the very least they could've provided an option like the Super Game Boy did.

 

Just look at what buttons will be used for the two primary functions in most any game developed for a device with 4 face buttons. It sure as heck isn't going to be the buttons in the positions represented by the A & B buttons on a SuperNes controller. Near universally it will be the buttons in the positions of Y & B with the X & A positions handling more secondary functions.

 

There's a reason for why it's that way on the Super Nintendo, the entire Playstation line, the Xbox line, software programmed specifically for the DS/3DS, etc.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Atariboy

[Andromeda Stardust]

Honestly, I actually prefer the BA layout as opposed to YB. I've always used option B on SMAS, and was perfectly happy with the GBA mapping on the DS Phat. Ditto for Virtual Console titles. My thumb is big enough that I can easily rock it side to side just like I did on the NES. It actually annoyed me a little bit that I had to get used to the YB style mapping on my FC Mobile II. Am I in the minority here in that I actually prefer BA instead of YB? I would definitely have considered getting the RetroDuo Portable were it not for the fact that I already own the FC Mobile II and the SupaBoy. I may still get it at some point.

Edited December 1, 2012 by stardust4ever

[Michael David Morsette]

I bought a RetroDuo Portable, and while I LOVE the concept I was really disappointed with the quality.

 

Example, buzzing sounds and lines on the screen. I couldn't get any customer help so I cracked it open to see if I saw anything obvious. There were soilder droppings all over the PCB. Cleaned that off, then noticed the positive and negative leads on the right speaker were shorting out because of a poor soildering job. Cleaned up the soilder so the leads weren't shorting and the buzzing and lines went away but it still had really poor sound. Then I noticed the positive lead on the left speaker had no soilder at all.

 

Well it works now but while the sound is better it still is pretty poor. I don't know if this is normal though or if someting was damaged either by the poor soildering or my poor repair job (I'm not to good at these things )

 

I have considered buying anther one on the off chance mine was just a lemon, but I am reluctant to take the chance. I definately want a quality device like this though... if I can just find one...

Edited December 6, 2012 by MrBland

[+Gemintronic]

My beef with these is the lack of support for standard AA batteries. Finding replacements BL-3586977ab whatever is gonna be impossible.