"Wii U Disappoints"

[raskar42]

I currently have a Wii U hidden away up in the closet which will be going to the stepson at Xmas. I'm dying to play it though, the wait is killing me.

 

You're not going to test it? I think I probably would. a couple years back i bought a christmas present that ended up being broken in the box, got it replaced a week later, but it made chrismas a little sadder than it needed to be.

 

Also, here's an interesting Wired article - 10 Things I Hate About Wii U.

http://www.wired.com...2/11/10-things/

 

looks like it has the same name banning issues that xbox live has. All the Gaylords are out of luck again.

[onlysublime]

GameCube was just as powerful as the XBOX, just didn't have DVD playback. Wii was not graphically, but was for its motion sensing. Nintendo opted for an approach that carved out a new segment of the market. They KNOW they cannot compete with 360/PS3 on things like Call of Duty.

 

ummm... no....

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/858/13

 

excerpts:

 

Nintendo ended up contracting IBM to handle the production of the CPUs for the GameCube based on their well-known PowerPC 750CXe processor.

 

However details on this processor are sketchy at best but the information we've been able to gather points at a relatively unmodified PowerPC 750CXe microprocessor with the addition of close to 40 new instructions (potentially SIMD FP) designed to specifically aid in game performance.

 

Although both the Gekko and the Intel CPU used in the Xbox are built upon advanced 0.18-micron processes, the Gekko is held back by its relatively short pipeline limiting it to generally no higher than 500MHz. The Gekko does use Copper interconnects which are superior to their Aluminum counterparts (used in the Xbox CPU for example) in that they more efficiently conduct electricity, but this advantage is still not able to result in a higher clock speed for the CPU. In the case of the GameCube, the CPU is clocked at 485MHz, or 3 times its 162MHz FSB frequency. The benefit of a shorter pipeline is of course, an increased number of instructions that can be processed in those limited number of clocks. However from all of that data that we have seen comparing the PowerPC 750 to even the desktop Intel Celeron processor, it does not seem that the Gekko can compete, performance-wise.

 

Instead of being a processing powerhouse, Gekko was actually chosen for its physical characteristics. Although it does have a larger on-die L1 & L2 cache than the Xbox CPU (64KB/256KB vs. 32KB/128KB) and is composed of more transistors (over 21 million vs. approximately 9 million for the Xbox CPU), Gekko's die is under 45 mm^2. For comparison, the processor used in the Xbox has a die measuring approximately 100 mm^2.

 

The Gekko is actually a very cool running CPU, dissipating around 5W at its 485MHz operating frequency. Again, when compared to the Intel CPU used in the Xbox, you're looking at roughly three times more being produced by the X-CPU than by the GameCube's Gekko.

So while isn't as powerful at the Xbox CPU, Gekko's smaller die and cooler operation provide for lower manufacturing costs and a smaller sized console which fit Nintendo's goals perfectly.

Gekko does have more FSB bandwidth at its disposal than the X-CPU, simply because its FSB is running at 162MHz vs. the 133MHz FSB frequency that is within the limits of Intel's AGTL+ spec. This results in a 1.3GB/s connection between Gekko and the North Bridge, which like in the case of the Xbox's nForce-based platform, is integrated into a single chip along with the graphics core.

 

In terms of raw performance, the Celeron 733 (4-way set associative L2) will outperform the PowerPC 750 running at 500MHz in any of the synthetic benchmarks we've seen. We can only assume that a 733MHz CPU with a 133MHz FSB and 8-way set associative L2 cache would only be faster than the Gekko giving the Xbox the CPU performance advantage.

 

Both platforms have good compiler support and the tilt of the hat goes to IBM's Gekko in terms of having a very flexible ISA.

 

Where the GameCube does clearly come out on top however is in heat production and die size. The Gekko produces around 1/3 the amount of heat as the Xbox CPU and measures in at close to half of the die size. This leads to tremendous cost savings in the production of the CPU that translates into the ability to price the GameCube at $199 instead of $299 like the Playstation 2 and Xbox.

 

The GameCube wins in terms of GPU efficiency courtesy of the embedded 1T-SRAM from MoSys. However the use of a fixed function T&L pipeline is a bit of a turn off for the GPU. Again this is another situation in which it would have been beneficial to have ATI's input into the design of the product before it was finalized. It is a shame that ATI acquired ArtX after the design was already completed otherwise we might have seen a programmable T&L pipeline instead.

Raw GPU power and feature set does go to the NV2A core that is in the Xbox.

 

 

The clear winner when it comes to audio is the Xbox. While Dolby Pro Logic II support is great, it isn't widely supported by most of today's receivers and lacks many of the benefits of Dolby Digital 5.1.

 

Also from an I/O standpoint the Xbox comes out ahead as well because of its built in hard drive and Ethernet adapter.

[Jinks]

I love my old gamecube. re4 looks awesome on it. I hated using a ps2 load times take too long... I think its dumb this update download is a issue. are people not used to ps3's psn updates that take forever. For instance getting netflix on ps3 took me about 3/4 hour. it had to update and all that. The wii is the best console for everything except breathtaking graphics that kids like. The clear bright easy to navigate menus on the wii are the best. Who likes ps3 black confusing menus. and netflix can't even read the movie titles and descriptions.. keep being delusional "hardcore gamers" who the hell would want to use a classic non motion controler on a modern system? After the wii theres no going back.. unless i play atari..keep the jokes coming gamecube1.5 wii u not powerfull enough. There vid games they look like vid games.. How much crack are you on if you think any of its realistic. Maybe you should crawl outa your moms basement..Theres no pixels out there and the dragons wont attack..

Edited November 29, 2012 by Jinks

[GKC]

I currently have a Wii U hidden away up in the closet which will be going to the stepson at Xmas. I'm dying to play it though, the wait is killing me.

I'm really curious if the Wii U had some sort of trophy/achievement system. Anyone have any info and/or thoughts on that? Also interested to see something specific about the systems specs (though I'm the first to argue specs don't matter, only gameplay). Just very curious.

Reading about the troubles moving everything from Wii to Wii U sounds like such a PITA that I think I'll just leave it alone. I plan to keep my Wii anyways and since it won't upconvert to 1080p, there's not much point for me.

 

Also, here's an interesting Wired article - 10 Things I Hate About Wii U.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/11/10-things/

 

I was in the same boat you are in, holding off until Christmas. I debated whether to open it and make sure it worked but when the details about the update came out that pushed me over the edge. I didn't want my kids opening the system and then having to wait 2 hours for the update. Ahhh the sacrifices fathers make for their kids

 

As far as achievements,, there are none unless developers put them into individual games. For instance Nintendo Land has stamps that you get for doing certain things. There is an activity app which keeps track of when you played, what you've been playing and for how long. I'd like to see them expand on that and include when you beat games or certain levels/bosses. There is some potential there for those who are achievement hunters.

Edited November 29, 2012 by GKC

[Atariboy]

A good GameCube game could look like a good Xbox game. So I don't think the GCN was too far away from the Xbox beyond the lack of a hard drive.

 

it's certainly far closer to Xbox level performance than Playstation 2 performance when properly programmed for.

[glazball]

I was in the same boat you are in, holding off until Christmas. I debated whether to open it and make sure it worked but when the details about the update came out that pushed me over the edge. I didn't want my kids opening the system and then having to wait 2 hours for the update. Ahhh the sacrifices fathers make for their kids

 

As far as achievements,, there are none unless developers put them into individual games. For instance Nintendo Land has stamps that you get for doing certain things. There is an activity app which keeps track of when you played, what you've been playing and for how long. I'd like to see them expand on that and include when you beat games or certain levels/bosses. There is some potential there for those who are achievement hunters.

 

I'd love to open it up, but I'd rather wait for N to release another patch or two. I'd be scared I'd brick the damn thing - would be just my luck. I'm hoping to use installation and setup time as a good time to teach the 8 year old that his new Nintendo is something to be treated with utmost care and respect.

 

About achievements: I guess my real question should have said - does the N Network do any sort of ranking by syncing achievements/trophies? I'm not the world's hugest trophy whore, but I def spend more time on them than I should on the PS3. I enjoy them and would like to see them with some first party N games, but haven't heard anything definite with Nintendo Network.

[onlysublime]

there were some situations, when programmed "just right" that the PS2 was better than the Xbox1 in terms of performance but it was way too hard to keep the 16 pixel pipelines busy. One of the kings of the Playstation, Criterion, was able to exploit the extreme parallel nature of the PS2. You look at the Burnout series, and it's better on the PS2 than the Xbox1. Though we don't know how much of it is because of better use of the PS2 hardware or a substandard port on the Xbox. Did Criterion even handle the conversion process for the Xbox?

 

And the lack of hardware texture mapping and compression with the PS2 was a painful neglect on Sony's part.

 

All things being equal, the PS2 trailed the Xbox hardware-wise. But nothing could match the breadth of the PS2 library.

 

do you guys read gamasutra? that is a fabulous site for insights on the machinations of game programming. Developers go into great detail on platforms and talk about things that went right and things that went wrong in the development of their games. It's really a cool site.

 

http://www.philvaz.com/games/PS2.htm

 

Here's a great article about the PS2 graphics architecture and the pros and cons they encountered while making a PS2 game. They even compared it to their Xbox development for the same title.

[GKC]

 

 

I'd love to open it up, but I'd rather wait for N to release another patch or two. I'd be scared I'd brick the damn thing - would be just my luck. I'm hoping to use installation and setup time as a good time to teach the 8 year old that his new Nintendo is something to be treated with utmost care and respect.

 

About achievements: I guess my real question should have said - does the N Network do any sort of ranking by syncing achievements/trophies? I'm not the world's hugest trophy whore, but I def spend more time on them than I should on the PS3. I enjoy them and would like to see them with some first party N games, but haven't heard anything definite with Nintendo Network.

 

I'm really not positive but I don't think there are. Individual games have certain rankings. Like for instance Zombi U has a leader board ranking survival time/score. In Mario you can see certain things you friends have done in the game (times, coins collected etc) but outside those two things I'm not sure if there is anything in the miiverse that keeps track of achievements. Its mostly up to the developers to put those things into games. There is no system tracking achievement list that Nintendo keeps track of that Ive seen so far and there isn't any in game achievement icons that pop up (which I will admit are addicting). I look forward to seeing what Nintendo does with miiverse in the future though and their activity app.

Edited November 29, 2012 by GKC

[Austin]

I sort of like that there isn't really an achievement system. I personally prefer the incentive to replay a game be because it's a fun and addictive experience, not because of cheap stretch goals that provide little satisfaction when completed. I know plenty will disagree with me, but I like this hybrid of the old and new that Nintendo is doing--basic tracking of how long you have played your games for friends to see, and that's about it.

[Atariboy]

I wanted achievements/trophies and I think it's a mistake to not have a system wide function shared between the Wii U and the 3DS, They're fun to go after and can add an additional layer of enjoyment to a game when done well.

 

But I'm also glad in a way that the focus in things like Zelda titles will never be clouded with them.

[atarian63]

Says the person with Mario as their picture.

Given the capabilities of the Wii I can't say I'm surprised you haven't played that much in a year.

 

I don't see where anyone said it was an insurmountable task, I was merely suggesting that parents take out the machine and update the software before hand so the kiddies can just play on Christmas morning. Is that really tough to understand?

To me it sounds a lot like buying battery operated toys and no batteries.

That is what I did before the family came over for thanksgiving, no big deal,just plan

[DracIsBack]

All things being equal, the PS2 trailed the Xbox hardware-wise.

 

Yeah, but it was also a newer machine, no?

 

In that generation, I had three of the four (GameCube, Xbox and Dreamcast) and played on the fourth quite regularly. You could see advantages and disadvantages but they all seemed in the same 'ballpark' more or less. The next generation was very, very different. The Wii did not sit in the same technical ballpark as the PS3 and XBox 360.

 

 

So I don't think the GCN was too far away from the Xbox beyond the lack of a hard drive.

 

It also had smaller media. Those little discs didn't have as much room, so sometimes levels were chopped, things compressed more etc. A lot of times, GameCube seemed to get quick, sloppy ports too.

 

Still, I do remember times when GameCube made my jaw drop. Like when I first saw that Star Wars launch title and when I first saw RESIDENT EVIL 4 on it. Those two alone showed the thing could pull off much more than cartoony kiddy games when asked of it. :-)

Edited November 29, 2012 by DracIsBack

[Metal Ghost]

I wanted achievements/trophies and I think it's a mistake to not have a system wide function shared between the Wii U and the 3DS, They're fun to go after and can add an additional layer of enjoyment to a game when done well.

 

I have to agree. I like going for achievements. If you don't like them, they can be ignored, completely. I don't see how they can ever get in the way for those that don't want to strive for them.

[cimerians]

Achievements for Nintendo games would be so cool...

 

I can live without but having them in a game like Zelda or Metroid would be nice.

[GKC]

Take it with a grain of salt but it looks like someone has been able to determine the wii u's clock speeds. CPU = 1.24GHz GPU = 550MHz

 

http://mynintendonews.com/2012/11/29/hacker-publishes-wii-u-cpu-and-gpu-specs/

 

Uff da.....

Edited November 29, 2012 by GKC

[cimerians]

Take it with a grain of salt but it looks like someone has been able to determine the wii u's clock speeds. CPU = 1.24GHz GPU = 550MHz

 

http://mynintendonew...-and-gpu-specs/

 

Uff da.....

 

Hmmm.

 

I have a feeling the next Xbox (and PS4 if that ever happens) will blow this thing away in terms of 3rd party support cause everyone knows what happens when you lag behind in anything hardware related. They don't want to bother releasing games on your system.

 

I think Nintendo is trying to plan another system ahead of the Wii-U in the not too distant future cause they know when Microsoft and Sony's consoles come out they will be around for a long ass while.

 

Plan on seeing a new console from Nintendo 5 years from now.

Edited November 29, 2012 by cimerians

[onlysublime]

curious about the guy's methodology in how he found out. hopefully others can confirm his numbers and whether they're accurate.

 

both mynintendonews and cvg came to the erroneous conclusion about comparing clock frequencies because they're not directly comparable due to different architectures. someone's going to have to do the math and multiply the frequencies with the variables to determine peak numbers like fillrate, geometry, etc.

 

either way, the lack of bandwidth is holding back the Wii U big time. Maybe they designed it that way because they knew that it wouldn't be needed with the design of the CPU and GPU they're using.

[toptenmaterial]

 

 

 

 

I have a feeling the next Xbox (and PS4 if that ever happens) will blow this thing away in terms of 3rd party support cause everyone knows what happens when you lag behind in anything hardware related. They don't want to bother releasing games on your system.

 

 

If third parties ignore this thing, then it means that they haven't learned. The lost the specs race but came out on top or nearly on top in sales. Why ignore that? I don't buy companies saying "we won't program for this cause the specs suck". Why pass up the chance to make money?

[cimerians]

If third parties ignore this thing, then it means that they haven't learned. The lost the specs race but came out on top or nearly on top in sales. Why ignore that? I don't buy companies saying "we won't program for this cause the specs suck". Why pass up the chance to make money?

 

You think Assassins Creed and Batman on the Wii would have been worth buying let alone developing for? Would devs really want to even DO that?

 

Yes, they have with Madden and some other games but with big budget titles with serious game engines I really doubt it.

 

Edit:

I'm starting to think (large) 3rd party support for Nintendo is almost to the point of not being necessary. The games on the Wii and the characters Nintendo has makes them almost like a niche market and a really big one at that.

Edited November 29, 2012 by cimerians

[GKC]

curious about the guy's methodology in how he found out. hopefully others can confirm his numbers and whether they're accurate.

 

 

 

Apperantly the clock speeds were determined while the system was idle. I may be wrong but don't some modern PCs have a power saving function that cuts down the CPU when not running games or performing tasks? Kind of like how some modern cars have a gas saving feature that shuts down cylinders? Perhaps the Wii U has something similar? Maybe we don't know the full story just yet? Maybe?..... Hopefully?...

Edited November 29, 2012 by GKC

[toptenmaterial]

 

 

You think Assassins Creed and Batman on the Wii would have been worth buying let alone developing for? Would devs really want to even DO that?

 

 

I see your point. But I see Assassins Creed and such as appealing to a different demographic. Big devs could still cash in on making quality platformers and RPGs that the Wii can do well instead of a load of shovelware.

[Greg2600]

Go back and compare like games, Gamecube vs. Xbox, they look the same, either both on composite or component video. Look the Xbox was better in other respects, live online play and modding, but the cube was practically equal on graphics. I had an Xbox as my main system.

 

As for the Wii U, I saw one the other day. Incredibly stupid presentation from Nintendo because it seems most stores only have one game, Rayman Legends, for demo, and it's not even out yet! The kiosk had a fairly large HD screen though, and the Rayman graphics were fantastic, but I wish they had more games ready.

[Metal Ghost]

Go back and compare like games, Gamecube vs. Xbox, they look the same, either both on composite or component video. Look the Xbox was better in other respects, live online play and modding, but the cube was practically equal on graphics. I had an Xbox as my main system.

 

As for the Wii U, I saw one the other day. Incredibly stupid presentation from Nintendo because it seems most stores only have one game, Rayman Legends, for demo, and it's not even out yet! The kiosk had a fairly large HD screen though, and the Rayman graphics were fantastic, but I wish they had more games ready.

 

Yea, I thought that was really weird too, and in fact I even was second guessing myself as to whether I was trying to get to a demo correctly. But every time I'd swipe to a game, the demo button would be greyed out and all I could do was watch video, with the exception of Rayman Legends. That's a bad call, in my opinion.

[Greg2600]

How about one of them at least, Aliens Colonial Marines, was a Photo SLIDESHOW with audio!!! Like this is 1997!

[raskar42]

How about one of them at least, Aliens Colonial Marines, was a Photo SLIDESHOW with audio!!! Like this is 1997!

 

wait.. it's not 1997?