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Albert

Another World Jaguar Pre-Order

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1. Invalid
 

1 is absolutely valid when you look at the extortion level costs of postage from the US to Australia (for but one example) these days. I just got a 13-15 (ish) kg package delivered at the top tier from the US - expedited, insured, tracked etc - and it was the better part of $700 US. Sure, it arrived here in less than 5 days, but when you factor in I could've flown to the US and picked it up for less, it's ridiculous.

I've been purchasing multiple copies of games for friends for over 20 years in order to minimise shipping costs as one to five games roughly costs the same to ship (probably $20 or $30 US via eBay these days, *sigh*).

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1 is absolutely valid when you look at the extortion level costs of postage from the US to Australia (for but one example) these days. I just got a 13-15 (ish) kg package delivered at the top tier from the US - expedited, insured, tracked etc - and it was the better part of $700 US. Sure, it arrived here in less than 5 days, but when you factor in I could've flown to the US and picked it up for less, it's ridiculous.

I've been purchasing multiple copies of games for friends for over 20 years in order to minimise shipping costs as one to five games roughly costs the same to ship (probably $20 or $30 US via eBay these days, *sigh*).


Yikes! That IS pretty steep!

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Because asshole re-sellers bought multiple copies. The problem isn't the number of units, it is that some people bought multiple copies to float on ebay. There are more than enough to go around to everyone who wants one if you remove these idiots.

 

LOL, one could say the true assholes are the ones who limit a games production in the first place knowingly creating a market for re-sellers. People should say 400 units are available but in reality they should make 600 units. Hell make a 1000. Let people buy as many to resell as their little hearts desire. If said publisher doesn't want to keep a steady supply of their product, that person is knowingly creating a market for re-sellers/scalpers.

 

The problem is and will always be limiting a run of a game.

 

If you can get a license for 400 games I find it really hard to believe you can't get a license for 600 or 1000.

 

It's not like this is new. EVERYONE knows what happens when you limit a games production run, yet people continue to choose to do so all the time. Then all we hear is complaining about the shortage.

 

People need to control their own markets. My personal opinion has always been people limit games runs just so they can brag about having something that was released in limited quantities.

 

How many Jaguar units were sold? Maybe 400 is fine for members of AA but the Jaguar market and video game market in general is not limited to AA. If it was re-sellers would not be buying multiple copies to toss on ebay to people who know nothing about AA.

 

As far as I am concerned blaming re-sellers for a purposely created shortage is just a scapegoat!

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As far as I am concerned blaming re-sellers for a purposely created shortage is just a scapegoat!

 

Make a game, sell it yourself, and then come back with a comment based on experience.

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If you can get a license for 400 games I find it really hard to believe you can't get a license for 600 or 1000.

 

I both make and publish 2600 and Genesis games.  Barely.  But, enough for first hand experience.

 

When I make my own original games I also have to pony up for the manufacturing costs.  This means I can only do 25 or less at a time.  It may take many months for those to sell through.  In the meantime I literally have less ramen in the pantry.

 

There are those that buy my games as speculation.  They buy at normal prices then jack them up up to $250+ on eBay.  They never prevent me from making more.  Demand does that.

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They buy at normal prices then jack them up up to $250+ on eBay.  They never prevent me from making more.  Demand does that.

 

Exactly. Plus as long as you have the same game sitting on ebay for what you sell it for that $250 game isn't doing anything but making you an extra sale!

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Exactly. Plus as long as you have the same game sitting on ebay for what you sell it for that $250 game isn't doing anything but making you an extra sale!

 

Yeah.  I might have confused the message.  I'm good at that.  

 

Carry on :)

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Exactly. Plus as long as you have the same game sitting on ebay for what you sell it for that $250 game isn't doing anything but making you an extra sale!

 

Once again you have utterly failed to understand how licensing works. You can repeat the same old nonsense over and over, but you'll still be wrong.

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Once again you have utterly failed to understand how licensing works. 

 

Please then by all means educate me! Instead of telling me how I failed, educate me so I can stop my rhetorical idiocy.

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Please then by all means educate me! Instead of telling me how I failed, educate me so I can stop my rhetorical idiocy.

 

We have, read the thread again. 

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Once again you have utterly failed to understand how licensing works. You can repeat the same old nonsense over and over, but you'll still be wrong.

What do you expect from a guy with an etsy shop full of bootl--err, sorry, "reproductions"?

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Maybe I'll try again.  This time from yet another angle.

 

I also have reproduction maker friends.  Thankfully they go for NES, SNES and Genesis and not Atari products.  In any case, some of them use any license limitations or IP owner reluctance to reissue as full justification.  It's more than a convenient excuse: they actually believe they are morally correct.  So, I don't think one side or the other will convince eachother here.  Unfortunately.

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LOL, one could say the true assholes are the ones who limit a games production in the first place knowingly creating a market for re-sellers. People should say 400 units are available but in reality they should make 600 units. Hell make a 1000. Let people buy as many to resell as their little hearts desire. If said publisher doesn't want to keep a steady supply of their product, that person is knowingly creating a market for re-sellers/scalpers.

 

The problem is and will always be limiting a run of a game.

 

If you can get a license for 400 games I find it really hard to believe you can't get a license for 600 or 1000.

 

It's not like this is new. EVERYONE knows what happens when you limit a games production run, yet people continue to choose to do so all the time. Then all we hear is complaining about the shortage.

 

People need to control their own markets. My personal opinion has always been people limit games runs just so they can brag about having something that was released in limited quantities.

 

How many Jaguar units were sold? Maybe 400 is fine for members of AA but the Jaguar market and video game market in general is not limited to AA. If it was re-sellers would not be buying multiple copies to toss on ebay to people who know nothing about AA.

 

As far as I am concerned blaming re-sellers for a purposely created shortage is just a scapegoat!

 

 

It doesn't work that way. I don't think it's intentional by any means, but more having to do with means... and demand. You and I both (I believe) agree on the fundamentals of economics. So, you know that no one goes into this without assuming that they're going to at least make a penny from it... but it's largely driven too by the enthusiasm and fandom. I think we both agree on that... so on to the challenges (having worked as a developer for a software company myself).

 

In the case with cartridges, physical hardware like this. There are so many limiting factors. For one, there isn't an easy way to "reach out" to all the Jaguar fans, other than maybe 1 or 2 sites... AtariAge being the big one. So they judged interest, made a run, and sold them. After several years, there was a lot of demand... IE: new fans to the Jaguar scene, and people who missed the original run that either didn't have the money and didn't say anything, or just didn't know about it the first time (because of life...). So... they made another run, what... 200 or 400 games I think?

 

Now, the "run" has a lot of factors in it. There's a lot of manual labor, loading and burning 200... 400 roms, which takes time. Not only that, when you have cartridge shells made, boxes printed and made, manuals printed and made, labels printed and made... they often each come from a different company. Now, these companies will only print these for you when you order them in bulk... furthermore, they'll only discount based on how many you make. 1000+ games gets a bigger discount than 200 does. But either way... that's a massive initial investment that must be made up-front on something you haven't been paid for yet. No one wants to lose their shirt on a game that's only being sold to fans.

 

... furthermore, there's the licensing fees associated with the printing of each one, and the agreements that must be made by the license holders. You can't simply print more just because there's a sudden demand, you now have to get an agreement from them again.

 

All these things add up. Maybe printing 600 the second time around, instead of 400... is just more than they can afford. 

 

But the thing is, they may not even begin to make any money until perhaps 1/3rd of them have been sold off. 

 

 

It's hard to judge. But if they made another run of 100 right now, it might not even sell, and the cost would need to be pretty high for them to make a profit on it. 

 

 

Just is what it is... but with better printers and 3d-printing at home capabilities... this may not be as big an issue in the next 10-15 years.

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What do you expect from a guy with an etsy shop full of bootl--err, sorry, "reproductions"?

 

Please, that shit has no money. I am moving on to a more lucrative business. Why put time in effort for $15 profit when I can sell the real deal for hundreds profit.

 

[attachment=584346:homebrewscalper.jpg]

 

 

 

 

But the thing is, they may not even begin to make any money until perhaps 1/3rd of them have been sold off

 

 

Hmm and here I thought pre-order meant people paid before this stuff was even made. Silly me.

 

 

 

 

I do love that on the very first page it says this:

 

 

- we want to avoid an eBay fiasco "à la" Battlesphere.

 

 

Fast forward to page 20 lol

...  

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I am the first to be sorry and disappointed that people speculate on the Atari Jaguar version of Another World.

 

Making another run would be an option to make this bubble blow for a moment, but clearly I haven't the time and energy for the moment for doing one.

 

Moreover, I am not convinced that we would have enough demands to make this hypothetical extra run profitable. (we don't want to lose time & money)

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I am the first to be sorry and disappointed that people speculate on the Atari Jaguar version of Another World.

 

Making another run would be an option to make this bubble blow for a moment, but clearly I haven't the time and energy for the moment for doing one.

 

Moreover, I am not convinced that we would have enough demands to make this hypothetical extra run profitable. (we don't want to lose time & money)

If there was anything to separate this hypothetical extra run from the previous runs I would be on board again, just 'cause I love this port to the Jaguar so much.  Either way, thanks for getting it out at all!

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If there was anything to separate this hypothetical extra run from the previous runs I would be on board again, just 'cause I love this port to the Jaguar so much.  Either way, thanks for getting it out at all!


EEPROM with the ability to save anywhere.
That would be an awesome thing, I tells ya!

(I hate passwords)
(I also hate dying and starting from miles back)

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EEPROM with the ability to save anywhere.
That would be an awesome thing, I tells ya!

(I hate passwords)
(I also hate dying and starting from miles back)

Dying in Another World doesn't set you back too far and the passwords are only like 4 characters long since there's not a lot of variables in playing through.  If I was gonna pick a dream option, it'd probably be to have the option to use the SNES music.

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SebRmv I am curious what are your licensing fees? I have read this entire thread as I was told all was already answered and from what I gathered the only thing listed was on page 1 from Al's post about being given a blessing to make the game.

 

"The iconic game, released in the early 90s, has been adapted by Sebastien Briais of the group Removers of Jagware with the blessing of the original developer, Eric Chahi."

 

I found like two other instances that hinted at what could possibly require licensing fees and that was when "Delphine Software" was mentioned, but that was not mentioned by anyone referring to paying anything to them.

 

I would really like to understand what fees are preventing people from producing these games.

 

It appeared you personally manufactured each game from the 2nd run yourself. I can understand initial investments for boards and shells if you are not using donors and then the obvious eproms, labels, and so on.

 

However buying boards, shells, eproms which lets face it, is going to be the bulk of the investment (especially if you offer a cartridge only option). Those items can be used for different games. Since you already made a couple production runs it's not like there is a design cost, all you need to do is re-order more parts.

 

If you don't want to make the games anymore you could easily allow someone like AL to offer them in the AA store. You as well need to control ebay. Nowadays you can have tons of free listings, simply make a listed for 30 days set to auto-renew and have like 10 copies available to purchase. This mostly ends people reselling these games for hundreds more.

 

I really do fail to see the hurdles in making these game as requested except for time involved and some initial cost.

 

I'm going to tell you the only reason I came into this thread is because I started getting people asking me to repro this game. I have not done so just to clear that up, but when people are asking me to repro these types of games, that means they are asking others as well. Someone will fill that need, that's just a fact. It is best you fill it before someone else does.

 

I'm pretty sure I ran across a post in the thread about a fake that had already been listed, so odds are the market is already  compromised.
 

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Surely it can't be as simple as SebRMV just making another run. We were just told it was a limited license situation weren't we?

That would mean renegotiation.

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I am the first to be sorry and disappointed that people speculate on the Atari Jaguar version of Another World.
 
Making another run would be an option to make this bubble blow for a moment, but clearly I haven't the time and energy for the moment for doing one.
 
Moreover, I am not convinced that we would have enough demands to make this hypothetical extra run profitable. (we don't want to lose time & money)


+1 for a new run. Maybe you could run an interest check on here and Facebook to see if the numbers add up?

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