Is there interest for a USB adaptor for 5200 controllers?

[dualcam]

I have had a request to make a 5200-daptor and have realized that one could made out a 2600-daptor II by using a DB15 with a pair of cables - one connecting to the DB9 connector and the other the internal terminal block. There is just enough I/O between those to handle everything - both analog axis, keypad, side buttons and start/pause/reset. A little kludgy, but with new firmware, it all works. If there was interest, could make up something a little nicer, like a dongle or dedicated 'daptor.

 

I am also looking into the the 5200 trak-ball. I don't have much experience with the 5200 though, and am wondering if there are other controllers to consider?

 

Tom

2600-daptor.com

[scotty]

Would Definatly be interested. I have about 4-5 5200 controllers and a 5200 trackball if you need any testing done.

[Voch]

I'm in. I have pretty much all (if not literally all) of your other 'daptors. I would love to try the analog-ness of the 5200 controllers in emulators (at least for 5200 games). I even have a 5200 "paddle" hack controller (attaching a 2600 paddle knob to the 5200 x-axis POT).

Edited May 12, 2013 by Voch

[PacManPlus]

I'd be interested too... and I'll most likely be picking up the 2600-dapter II, and the one for the intellivision as well.

[gambler172]

Me too

[Voch]

dualcam sent me a 5200-daptor to test and the standard CX-52 joystick controller works great in the Atari 5200 emulation in SDLMESS for Mac OS X (tested with Berzerk and Missile Command...only a handful of games work in that emulator) and Atari800MacX for Mac OS X (a port of the Atari800 emulator).

 

My Atari 5200 Trak-Ball controller also works perfectly in Atari800MacX (tested with Centipede, Missile Command and Space Invaders) without the 'daptor's "trak-ball mode", so the emulator must do proper interpretation of the trak-ball's analog signals (center when not rolling / move off-center when rolling). The 'daptor's trak-ball mode (hold down any red button for a few seconds while inserting the USB) works as a "mouse" in SDLMESS but will need some software sensitivity tweaking...for Atari 5200 games I'll be using the "out-of-the-box" compatibility with Atari800MacX.

 

Great job, dualcam. I'll be buying another 5200-daptor when they're available.

[dualcam]

These are now available -

http://home.comcast.net/~tjhafner/5200-daptor.htm

 

Not sure how interest there is, so I just did a small batch to start, but will certainly do more if people want them.

 

Tom

[ulao]

hey my adapter supports them. I dont have a track ball to test with so I'm not certian on that. The ide about my adapter is not really for sinlge but I do have that option at 35 dollars ( maybe to hight for some ).

http://spawnlinux.dyndns.org/Bliss-Box/index.html

[dualcam]

hey my adapter supports them. I dont have a track ball to test with so I'm not certian on that. The ide about my adapter is not really for sinlge but I do have that option at 35 dollars ( maybe to hight for some ).

http://spawnlinux.dy...-Box/index.html

 

I'm not sure if there is that many people looking for one of these, but I saw I could easily do one.

 

$35 is a good price for your adapter. It is impossible for us to compete on price with the ones being mass produced in China.

 

Instead we have make ours better and/or have more features. I think my adapters are the only ones that run at USB full speed (12Mbps) and transmit the controller data every 1 milli-second (1000 times per second). The rest from what I have seen run at USB low speed (1.5Mbps) and can at best only transmit every 8-10 ms.

 

Tom

Edited June 10, 2013 by dualcam

[ulao]

my decice is 10ms poll rate is the theory - but for practical tests (win: 8ms, linux: 2 ms)

 

at best only transmit every 8-10 ms.

 

at 60FPS its 16.67ms apart for each frame. So where is the advantage if you can not see it? Even an FPS of 80 is still 12.5 ? Sure you will read more samples but the output on the screen is still bottle necking you to its FPS rate. So pressing jump at the first ms of frame x is still not going to show a jump on the screen till the 15~ ms are up.

 

This is assumming the game is in sink with the refresh rate. Otherwise you would see one choppy output. Either way the ending result is the same, the action is not seen till the video is refreshed. Perhapse I missed your point?

Edited June 10, 2013 by ulao

[dualcam]

I posted the wrong prices on the web page. This has been corrected now.

 

Tom

[dualcam]

my decice is 10ms poll rate is the theory - but for practical tests (win: 8ms, linux: 2 ms)

 

 

 

at 60FPS its 16.67ms apart for each frame. So where is the advantage if you can not see it? Even an FPS of 80 is still 12.5 ? Sure you will read more samples but the output on the screen is still bottle necking you to its FPS rate. So pressing jump at the first ms of frame x is still not going to show a jump on the screen till the 15~ ms are up.

 

This is assumming the game is in sink with the refresh rate. Otherwise you would see one choppy output. Either way the ending result is the same, the action is not seen till the video is refreshed. Perhapse I missed your point?

 

This is heading in the direction of a new thread .

 

I'm not sure what you are refering to by "poll rate" - if you mean how often the adpater reads the controller, or how often the controller data is transmitted. My understanding of USB is it has it's own concept of "frame" (not be confused with the video frames) and a transmist is done at each frame. The frames are 1ms when running USB full speed, but 8ms when running low speed.

 

So for low speed, if a player presses jump just after a transmit was done, then there will be a 8ms delay until the next time it can be transmited. The 8ms is almost half the 16.67ms frame rate, so close to 50% chance it will get bumped to the next video frame.

 

However, I agree that you can argue that this does not matter much, as the time for the computer to render the frame and the monitor to display it will add significat delay until the player will actually see it. I posted a thread on here where I did some measurements of what the total delay time is - from hand to eye. If I recall, it could be as bad as 5-6 video frames, but could also only be 2-3.

 

However, to my point, I can't match price with adapters made in China, so I instead have to do what I can to try to make my adapters better. Even if it is only a minor reduction in the total delay, I hope some people will appreciate it.

 

Tom

[ulao]

Yes you get my meaning but your being a tad bit too consise.

 

The 8ms is almost half the 16.67ms frame rate, so close to 50% chance it will get bumped to the next video frame.

 

The best way to think of it is to undersstand at 8ms you have two samples. Two sampes before the data is rendered onthe screen is more then enough.

 

However, to my point, I can't match price with adapters made in China, so I instead have to do what I can to try to make my adapters better.

I have the same issue, so I do understand but I dont think that is a selling point is all. You and I have one thing china does not, quality. I don't know about you, but I honer ( something chineese shoudl know about ) my product. Not only will I fix any issue, ill add and compatibility, and at any point refund the entire amount. I'm not making these for profit, I make them for fun. Second, for me anyways, you can make my adapter for free if you have the skills. I dont hide my design, I share it. So in that sense I do agree with you. Edited June 11, 2013 by ulao

[dualcam]

The 8ms is almost half the 16.67ms frame rate, so close to 50% chance it will get bumped to the next video frame.

 

I made a mistake here. 8ms would be the worst case, but it would average to 4ms, so 25% chance of an adding an extra video frame delay.

 

Tom

[ulao]

You were one of those guys that rolled up you pennies when you when tot the bank weren't you

 

I can promise you it does not matter. I get a lot of people asking about latency for Saturn controllers. I unsure them I dont get these latency report and all are satisfied. I think I have 100 saturn users.

[dualcam]

You were one of those guys that rolled up you pennies when you when tot the bank weren't you

 

I can promise you it does not matter. I get a lot of people asking about latency for Saturn controllers. I unsure them I dont get these latency report and all are satisfied. I think I have 100 saturn users.

 

Nah, I never rolled up pennies, but I am guilty of caring about the details. I mostly agree with you, but never the less, I want to do what I can to sure that ensure I'm not adding latency.

 

Tom

[ulao]

yeah I get that, I'm the same just can’t change my usb implementation so I'm limited to 1.0. I'll go out of the way to avoid extra us where possible. Though I have to admin not with atari hardware;) Try implementing the Dream cast some time, talk about tight! I guess we have Offtopic'd enough.

 

Really though products like mine and Tom's here are going to strive to be the best we can make it. We may not get the price down but will do deliver a great adapter!

 

Nice SR5 BTW

Edited June 12, 2013 by ulao

[+xucaen]

Just curious what ever became of this.

 

 

Never mind. http://www.2600-daptor.com/5200-daptor.htm