Venture Official Release

[Mclaneinc]

Have you been taking advice from Pete / Centron 3D man

[Marius]

Was there any deep testing on /REAL/ PAL hardware btw?

[peteym5]

Was there any deep testing on /REAL/ PAL hardware btw?

I believe I made Venture to run about the same speed on both NTSC and PAL. It was tested at AtariSales before release, but could only test on real NTSC hardware since we are based in the United States. It puts an extra delay in NTSC, when the lower 3 bits of the clock are 0, every 8th frame, so NTSC runs very slightly faster than PAL.

[Marius]

I find Emulators not reliable enough (yet) to test whether a game is PAL compatible or not.

 

Is it possible to release -just like was done with tempest Xtreem- a small demo where people can test one or two playfields?

 

I would be seriously interested to test that for you.

 

Let me know if I can test something.

[+MrFish]

but could only test on real NTSC hardware since we are based in the United States.

 

That's no limiting factor.

[peteym5]

I have to check with Video61 to see if there were any European Sales for Venture already. No one ever reported a problem back to us. Venture does not use any super fancy graphic mode tricks that will work in one video standard and not work in the other. Doesn't use Super-IRG, Interlace, or APAC. I put out beta/demos for the games that useg Super-IRG like Delta Space Arena and Secretum Labyrinth, but no one reported an issue of noticeable flicker due to the lower frame rate.

Edited November 29, 2014 by peteym5

[peteym5]

Just talked to Video61. There already were a few overseas sales and had no complaints.

[scobb]

I've had Venture now for months...one of the original buyers...love the game and appreciate all the time and effort into making it look and play so great...would gladly pay full price again for such a masterpiece on 70s hardware!

 

Scott

[Aking]

Venture was good.

but

awfully presented ,

way too easy

and with some bugs

(more in pal land)

 

newer projects like the flickery omega race clone for 40 bucks ?!

don´t even deserve comments...

[peteym5]

Venture was good.

but

awfully presented ,

way too easy

and with some bugs

(more in pal land)

 

newer projects like the flickery omega race clone for 40 bucks ?!

don´t even deserve comments...

 

Did you try Delta Space Arena in Altirra with Frame Blending on? On real hardware the flickering should be beyond human persistence of vision, even in PAL mode. I am working on a few games using Super-IRG and seeing what works good. However I need feedback to know what works or not.

[+MrFish]

Was there ever a demo released for Venture?

[Marius]

and with some bugs

(more in pal land)

 

Cursing myself for writing that I would never start again about "digital" downloads... but I'm now very interested how Video61 and crew are going to update bugs in already sold.

 

I'm seriously interested, not flaming or trolling. I don't want to buy a cart with bugs/mistakes.

[Mclaneinc]

 

Did you try Delta Space Arena in Altirra with Frame Blending on? On real hardware the flickering should be beyond human persistence of vision, even in PAL mode. I am working on a few games using Super-IRG and seeing what works good. However I need feedback to know what works or not.

 

But the only problem here is that the demo runs lovely on Altirra with frame blending but since there will be a cartridge ONLY of the final version we won't be able to play that on Altirra so we will be back to flickering.

 

As Prowizard says in a post above, digital downloads allow us to have bug fixed versions and for those people who only have emulators, the chance to still play new games.

 

The idea of piracy is the last thing on our minds..

[Mclaneinc]

 

Cursing myself for writing that I would never start again about "digital" downloads... but I'm now very interested how Video61 and crew are going to update bugs in already sold.

 

I'm seriously interested, not flaming or trolling. I don't want to buy a cart with bugs/mistakes.

 

Looks like you won't get that choice with Sal's blinkered approach re the buying public, we are all just thieves looking to rip him and Petey off it seems. Perhaps he can sell his attitude to MS and the next windows will be on a cartridge only...

 

If Ventures sales were limited it was because of the price and not that people were buying it and dumping it for everyone to have..Or perhaps Sal could point to a site that has a dump of it as proof?

 

I thought not..

 

The Atari folk here BUY stuff when the quality is good and the price is reasonable but there is a valid point that if a product has bugs what are the cartridge only version dev's going to do for their customers when serious bugs are found...

 

If you go down the road of 'sold as is' then you stand the very high chance of non returning customers and bad press, obviously resending bug fixed carts is a costly endeavour but that's why other rewriteable media is out there as are digital downloads. Or you could add socketed eproms and update those via mail.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Mclaneinc

[peteym5]

Venture was good.

but

awfully presented ,

way too easy

and with some bugs

(more in pal land)

 

newer projects like the flickery omega race clone for 40 bucks ?!

don´t even deserve comments...

What are the bugs you are referring to?

In the 2 years since Venture had be released, not one reported an issue running the game on a PAL TV.

The Games I am making using Super IRG are being released as a free beta demo that have the same video routines that will be in the cartridges. Delta Space Arena is limited 10 levels. Secretum Labyrinth has a smaller map because the larger map won't fit onto a standard 64K Atari, requires a bank switching cartridge to run. I already made adjustments to make the flickering less of a problem.

[Marius]

(Important note (to myself)): This is not a request for a download-version, but there is something like that in this.

 

Please consider this:

 

1. When I buy this cart, and yes I'm planning to buy it. I have to pay shipping costs, and when I'm very unlucky I have to pay a terrible high custom fee... but OK, I'll pay all that to receive the cart.

 

2. As soon as the Cart is here, I'll dump the cart for private use and put it on my THE!CART or MyIDE ][. There is (of course) no protection in the code to prevent running from these devices, since these devices act 100% like the original; for the atari and the code there is no chance to detect it's a fake cart.

 

3. I will never use the original cart, but always use the dumped-version on The!Cart.

 

Why do I have to follow these steps if:

 

1. I pay the $40 the cart is listed for, and I receive the .ROM dump of the cart.

 

It's 100% the same risk for the authors, and they even are free for me to add some unique code to the dump; I do not spread the dump period (I would not spread my own dump in the other case too).

 

Benefits:

 

1) I could play the game tonight (in stead of waiting for weeks before finally something from USA is received here)

 

2) I save shipping costs and custom fee

 

3) I save Video61 a lot of work (shipping/handling)

 

4) Nor Video61 nor I have a risk of a lost package.

 

5) It's not a XEX or ATR file so the chance of hacking/piracy is as big (or better as small) as with dumping a bought cart.

 

I would be glad to pay my 40 USD for the game. Please take this as a order-request, and do not bash my question.

And yes, I would probably buy the cart if I can not buy it this way, but you can count on it I'll be back if there is a BUG found (which is probably there, since it is not tested on real PAL hardware).

 

And before I buy a cart, I want to know: what IF there is a bug? You still are not going to send a fixed .ROM file which I can burn again? We do have to exchange carts then? (Again: shipping, risks of lost package etc.?)

 

So please, let me buy the ROM dump. Not a binary executable or an ATR, but simply the ROM dump.

Thanks in advance,

 

M.

[Mclaneinc]

M, you are going to upset Sal, he see's red when dump is mentioned..

 

Mind you you have to remember that we are all potential thieves looking to drain his profit by hoisting the piracy flag..

 

Sal has what I call 'Small game producer syndrome' where every game is a potential millionaire product that must be secured so us users can't dare have an alternative version, other producers have managed to either self medicate or not suffer from this illness and produce digital downloads that still offer a reasonable return but also produce a real cart for the collectors which depending on the game and the quality sell pretty well.

 

So we ask Sal and perhaps Petey to seek treatment for this rather inhibitive illness, small doses of drugs will remove the paranoia that we are all out to steal from them and soon they can join the adventurous band of developers who get great treatment from the public..

 

Do yourself a favour Peteym and unhitch yourself from Sal, I used to like Sal, he seemed a nice guy that was in my mind getting maligned for the wrong reasons yet the real Sal showed himself and I realised he was the problem.

 

I still wish him well but his people skills and his entrepreneur talents are incredibly weak, don't let him drag you down as you are the real reason the carts sell, not the music which isn't bad..

Edited December 1, 2014 by Mclaneinc

[+therealbountybob]

What I would like to see is reviews of your games

[peteym5]

I am still unable to confirm there is a bug in Pal mode. I find it amazing that Aking did not specify what the bugs are, or produce any screen shots. I just did some tests and did not see anything.

 

I am going to maintain that the game plays the same in Pal as it does in NTSC.

[BrianC]

I'm curious what Aking means by "way too easy" as well. From what I have seen in videos, this looks every bit as challenging as the arcade and even has some extra modes.

[gozar]

 

1. When I buy this cart, and yes I'm planning to buy it. I have to pay shipping costs, and when I'm very unlucky I have to pay a terrible high custom fee... but OK, I'll pay all that to receive the cart.

 

I would be glad to pay my 40 USD for the game. Please take this as a order-request, and do not bash my question.

And yes, I would probably buy the cart if I can not buy it this way, but you can count on it I'll be back if there is a BUG found (which is probably there, since it is not tested on real PAL hardware).

 

So please, let me buy the ROM dump. Not a binary executable or an ATR, but simply the ROM dump.

Thanks in advance,

 

M.

Might as well save your money, there are other companies in the A8 world that respect the needs of their users. I'm pretty soured on this whole situation, especially with talk of booby trapped code to prevent the use of flash carts or use in an emulator.

[Marius]

I have never seen a company that refuses the same money, for less work.

 

Well ok, then I'll buy the cart... no problem... I'll dump the code myself... no problem... I'll put the dump on my desired storage medium (and in this era of modern atari 8bit solutions a normal use of atari 8bit) I'll find bugs... no problem...

 

But my serious question: how will buggy carts fixed? Is not answered yet. Are Video61/Peteym5/Sal so 'pissed' about this subject, that they do not want to answer that?

I think it is a normal question; and good in place here.

 

The fact that this game is only tested in Pal on emulator worries me. The past has shown us enough already that timing issues, scanline issues, and especially VBI/DLI issues are not always an issue in emulator; but they'll cause problems (or even crashes) on the real thing. We have seen this enough already; serious!

 

So why not even providing a demo? Show me video of 15 minutes of gameplay on a real PAL setup is also enough.

 

The fact that there was never a complaint does not count (for me). Who tells me that those people did not even play the game? (It happens enough that people collect stuff, simply for the collection). I haven't seen any Venture video on PAL system so far.

 

So please stop being stubborn, and simply answer the request for

 

1) A demo or..

2) A 15 minutes video on a real PAL system, where I can see the game plays well or

3) Promise to give a FIXED dump when bugs are in the need of a fix (in stead of shipping carts back and forth)

 

Thanks

M.

[Marius]

I've had Venture now for months...one of the original buyers...love the game and appreciate all the time and effort into making it look and play so great...would gladly pay full price again for such a masterpiece on 70s hardware!

 

Scott

 

I want to add to this discussion that probably everybody (including myself) here appreciates all the time and effort into making this game.

 

That is definitely not the discussion. I appreciate the work, and I would like to emphasize that this scene only stays alive because of the creation of new titles.

 

So Pete, Sal and Video61 certainly earn my respect and applause.

 

I can imagine that my critical questions/remark give the idea that I don't like their work or that i don't appreciate it. That would be a wrong conclusion.

 

I dislike the way the game is presented and the attitude about customers (being pirates and all that kind of comments).

 

So no hard feelings from my side. I'm very interested in this game, so like I wrote before: please consider my questions as serious meant towards a wannabe customer.

[peteym5]

Thankyou for the appreciation of our work.

 

To answer the question about how bug fixes are fixed: We test the games for months before they are released. They are tested in emulation, in executable form (if possible), and on cartridge to beta testers. As you see, I am also releasing beta demos of a few games I have full control over. This provides many pairs of eyes looking for problems.

 

I had discussed the ideal of a demo with Video61 and KJMANN about a demo of Venture, future version with more enhancements, or a VBXE version of Venture. However those are on the back burner right now because we have 3 other games being developed at this time.

 

Now I will not reply to any comments about digital downloads or how much the cartridge cost. I made an effort to put the game on a 16K cartridge in a better shell that actually costs less. I am not going to add fuel to the fire.

 

What I am trying to find out is this problem that Aking reported about Venture running on PAL. I am trying to help. If he reads this, can you try cleaning the contacts on the cartridge + computer? Make sure the cartridge is firmly in the computer straight. If its a 130XE, 65XE, 800XE, might put something under the cartridge so it is not leaning down. I personally had a problem with my 130XE with BasicXE cartridge loosing contact and loosing a basic program I had been working for hours.

Edited December 2, 2014 by peteym5

[Mclaneinc]

 

I personally had a problem with my 130XE with BasicXE cartridge loosing contact and loosing a basic program I had been working for hours.

 

 

I knew it, Venture is written in BASIC