Best Way to play Mid-90s Windows 95/98 Games?

[godslabrat]

(Stuck in this forum because while it's not strictly classic, it's sure as sugar not modern. Hope that's okay)

 

So here's where I'm at... I'd like to play a half-dozen PC games I used to play when I was a teenager. Games that come immediately to mind are Fury 3, Quake, Beavis and Butt-Head's Virtual Stupidity, ST:TNG Final Unity, MDK, and Alpha Centauri. When I was a kid, I was held back by the PC I used. It occurs to me now that modern hardware could allow me to play these games at max resolution, framerate, etc, with no slowdown at all... and incredibly cheaply. The problem, as I've found, is that some of those games don't play so well with newer versions of Windows, or that today's hardware is so advanced compared to what I used to use, that the games don't know how to take advantage of it.

 

An additional level of complication is that in the 21st century, I'm a Mac user, so I don't keep my old IBM-Compatible hardware around.

 

So my question is... if I were going to build a Win95/Win98/DOS Box, using a lot of secondhand hardware, what's the absolute best machine I could build for this purpose? I'd want something advanced enough to make those old games scream, but old enough to not add glitches found by bringing old software into a new hardware generation. Being able to cram it all into a small form factor PC case would be a nice bonus.

[Great Hierophant]

A mid-to-high range Pentium II system should be your target for those games. For Quake, you will probably need a 3dfx Voodoo 2 card to achieve truly spectacular framerates.

 

Small form factor and late 1990s gaming machine are concepts that could not be further apart. A Micro ATX motherboard or Baby AT is probably the best you can hope for.

 

If you can burn CDs, then you shouldn't have a major problem with Mac-to-PC hardware issues.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Great Hierophant

[cimerians]

I buy the games on GOG or I use Vmlite on Win8 which works well except for sound these days. On Windows 7 I used to use WinXP Mode which worked ok for non graphic type games but I always used DOSbox for Dosbased games.

 

As for building a PC I used to have one I kept around until a few years ago. It was a Compaq Deskpro Pentium 4 with 256MB of RAM and a Voodoo 5 graphics card because in the late 90's there were some exclusive 3DFX based games I wanted to play and it was a pretty good card too. I had a Soundblaster in it too.

 

Here's a pic similar to what my PC looked like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Deskpro

[Andromeda Stardust]

Some points to consider:

 

Many windows 95/98 games, even though the actual game is 100% 32-bit software, used 16-bit installers which won't work on 64-bit windows. However, many games ran off the local Programs files folder, so if you have a hard drive image with an intact installation, it is sometimes possible to copy the directories over without performing a proper install.

 

Widescreen monitors did not exist back them and most games used fixed ratios in full screen (4:3). 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024 (5:4 ratio), and 1600x1200 was the best you could do. Because nearly all WS monitors only support up to 1920x1080, you'll be stuck using a lower resolution either pillar boxed or stretched depending on how your monitor processes the image.

 

Modern video cards generally support legacy modes, however "high quality" audio/video settings in certain games may rely on obsolete tech. I have a few games that run with the low quality settings but crash when high quality filters are applied. Cest La vie!

 

The Pro versions of Windows support virtual machines, so you might consider using a VM in case you still have a retail copy of Windows 95 or 98 laying around, that would be great and should make games 100% compatible. Be forewarned most of the old installation media, even if CD-ROM based, you'll still need a floppy to load the CD-ROM. Most PC motherboards don't even have sockets for floppy drives anymore. If your motherboard doesn't have PS2 ports on the back console of floppy sockets, you'll need to enable USB legacy support and virtualization in BIOS. These settings are typically turned off by default. This will allow you to run virtual machines, and a modern motherboard will detect USB floppies, keyboards, and mice on boot and they will show up as PS2 devices and floppy controllers to old operating systems that don't recognize USB. Bear in mind PS2 and floppy controllers are not plug-n-play, so they have to be connected prior to boot otherwise the "legacy" USB mode won't work if you plug them in or disconnect the device after the system is booted.

 

Up through Windows 7 it is possible to set up dual boot configurations with Linux or older Windows versions, however they will not work with Windows 8 EFI booting. If you turn EFI off, Windows 8.1 will warn you that secure boot isn't working properly, which is annoying. I'm very annoyed that Microsoft is slowly locking down the Windows OS starting with 8. If you use SATA hard drives make sure to set them to IDE mode in BIOS otherwise dual booting with legacy operating systems won't work correctly. If you've already installed Windows on a SATA drive using a non-IDE setting, you will likely have to reinstall the OS to dual boot with legacy systems. You'd probably have to do that anyway to set up new partitions. Another caveat is that Windows 3.1, 95, and 98, might not run well if you have ridiculous amounts of RAM (like 1-2Gb or more) installed since PC configurations with greater than 256Mb or so of RAM simply didn't exist during the era. Also some games, especially old DOS apps that were designed for slow CPUs, will sometimes go ape-sh!t if you attempt to run them at Gigahertz clock speeds.

 

Oh, and what the earlier poster said about using old PCs if you still have one laying around. Modern PC tech is at a point now where you could just "emulate" a 400Mhz Celeron or PII with 256Gigs, no problem.

Edited November 20, 2013 by stardust4ever

[cimerians]

Yeah its to the point now where I just don't need a physical machine to play those games since I got 99% of them to work with GOG, VM's, emulation or tweaking (because of the installers).

 

I ditched my legacy PC a few years ago but I may still have some of the components (cards, memory etc).

[Hatta]

If you feel like paying GoG, that's a fair way to go. But GoG doesn't carry everything. VMs or emulation can work, with a lot of setup and hair pulling. There's nothing that's as simple as DOSBOX.

 

I really recommend a vintage PC for this era of gaming. A 440BX PIII runs Windows 98SE like a dream, and it still has ISA slots for a good old soundblaster. I run my PIII 650 with passive (factory stock) cooling and it's extremely stable.

 

Which video card you want is a pretty big topic. A Voodoo III is a good option, as some games are Glide only. Later nVidia cards like the TNT2 or a Geforce will perform better, but it's a question of how much you really need.

 

I run games up to 1999 on a 400mhz Celeron (PII) based with Voodoo II SLI(equivalent to voodoo III 2000). Unreal Tournament, Swat 3, Half-Life, and SiN, all work great on this computer. But going with the 440BX PIII and a Geforce will open up games from the early 2000s without losing any compatibilty with earlier games(except glide only games).

[MrMaddog]

GOG is one way, but I found other methods as well. Look for open source engines for games like Doom or Quake, not only will they run on current PC's but also add things like 3D rendering as well. In other words, the games will now look better than they did back in the day!

 

For games that only run in 256 color mode, just turn off Aero and right-click the desktop to select Screen Resolution and leave the window open or minimized. That's needed for 64-bit Windows, or you can also run the game in windowed mode. All other problems are a result of depreciated 32-bit libraries that MS removed. For that you will have to run WinXp in VirtualBox or Win95/98 in Boches...

[copper20]

A wealth of PC games were put on 5th generation consoles such as the PlayStation 1, 3DO, Sega Saturn, and a few on the Nintendo 64. Have you tried looking at those ports?

 

Personally I'd stick with the Sega Saturn for games like Magic Carpet, Myst, and Quake.

 

Just giving a suggestion.

[jmetal88]

Not having read any of the other replies (Sorry!), I'd say go for a Super Socket 7 motherboard and work from there.

 

I have a Biostar M5ATA motherboard that absolutely rules with Windows 98, has both PCI and ISA slots, and even onboard USB! I'm only running a 233MHz (or is it 266MHz?) processor at the moment, but I've read that that particular board can be easily modified to support faster processors. I'm actually having it boot up four different operating systems at the moment: MS-DOS 6.22, Windows 98, Windows NT 4.0, and Windows 2000. Pretty much lets me get anything I need to do with an older OS done. It also has three floppy drives installed (on a controller that supports four drives), but that configuration only works properly when I boot to pure MS-DOS or to NT 4.0 (2000 sees all the drives, but won't let me use the 360k drive, whereas Windows 98 won't boot with more than two floppy drives installed, therefore I had to disable BIOS support for the third drive).

[Hatta]

A wealth of PC games were put on 5th generation consoles such as the PlayStation 1, 3DO, Sega Saturn, and a few on the Nintendo 64. Have you tried looking at those ports?

 

Personally I'd stick with the Sega Saturn for games like Magic Carpet, Myst, and Quake.

 

Just giving a suggestion.

 

 

Oh no, you really want the real thing. The PC was so far ahead of consoles in that era. Just compare Rogue Squadron between the PC and N64. Crank the resolution up to 1024x768 and use a flight stick. The N64 version is pathetic by comparison. This holds for so many games.

[Keatah]

While I try to use DOSBOX for everything, there are times when I want to use real hardware. My old legacy gaming rig:

 

Currently the system specification is:

 

OS

Windows 7 Ultimate

Windows XP Professional (sp3)

Windows 98se

Windows 95

Windows 3.1

Dos 6.22

 

Mainboard

Abit BX6R2 motherboard, Slot-1, Intel BX440

 

CPU

intel Pentium III Tualitin @ 1,403MHz, 100MHz FSB, 256KB full-speed L2 cache

PowerLeap socket 370 - slot-1 slocket adapter, with external power supply source

 

Memory

1 GB RAM (256MB x 4 SDRAM) non-ECC, PC-100/133 w/spd

 

Expansion slots

2 ISA

5 PCI

1 AGP 1x/2x (3.3v)

 

Internal Onboard Connectors

2 x IDE ATA UDMA-33 connectors

1 5.25 & 3.5 FDD connector

4 x 168 pin DIMM connectors (data buffered)

SMI and instrument bus

Reset

Power

HDD indicator

Speaker

Keylock

BIOS reset

Wake-on LAN header

SB-LINK header

IR-1 IrDA TX/RX header

FAN x 3

RT2 thermistor

ATX power input conenctor

 

External Onboard Connectors

2 x serial 1650 UART

1 x parallel EPP ECP SPP

2 x USB 1.0

PS/2 keyboard

PS/2 mouse

 

BIOS

Award Modular BIOS v4.51PG 1984-1999

PnP ACPI DMI

4/26/2000

i440BX-W977-2A69KA1JC-QR (last version produced)

 

Graphics

Gainward GeForce 4 4600ti ultra PowerPack Golden Sample Ultra/750 XP

Dual DVI, Dual VGA, Video-in & Video-out, 128MB DDR, AGP 1x, 2x, 4x

1996-2002 NVIDIA 4.25.00.28.00 GFORCE 4600 TI 128.0MB

 

Hard disk drives

3 x Western Digital 120GB HDD (IDE PATA)

 

Floppy drive

Sony 3.5 Floppy

 

Optical drives

CD-ROM PlexWriter 24/10/40A drive (IDE PATA)

DVD52X Lite-On DVD reader SOHD 16P9SV (IDE PATA)

 

Modem

Supra Express 56.6k v.90 ISA non-win-modem (ISA)

 

Sound

SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold CT4390 + memory module CT1930 (ISA)

SoundBlaster Live! CT4760 w/breakout box (PCI)

Additional expansion ports

Belkin F5U220 5-port USB 2.0 card NEC chipset (PCI)

Generic VT6306 based 3-port IEEE-1394 FireWire card (PCI)

 

Internal 1394 - ATA Bridgeboard

FW2IDE02D (Oxford FW911plus)

 

Ethernet Network NIC

3COM Fast EtherLink XL 3C905b-TX 10/100

 

Power Supply

Antec True 550

 

Fans

4 x dual ball-bearing Vantec & no-name generic

 

Fan speed controllers

3 x Cnps FAN MATE

1 x 3-speed controller and generic fan alarm

 

Front Panel Ports

1 Stereo line-in

1 Stereo line-out

1 Microphone in

1 CD audio headset out

2 x USB 2.0

1 x IEEE-1394 FireWire

1 x Compact Flash, SD, and multi-card reader

 

Additional audio expansion ports

2 x optical SPDIF In/Out
RCA optical SPDIF In/Out
RCA Aux-In
RCA Aux-Out
MIDI In/Out
1/4" Headphone Jack
4.1 analog surround out
1/4" line in jack
3 x 1/8" line in
6 Channel AC-3 SPDIF out

2 x RCA line out

 

Gameports

Standard analog PC gameports onboard the SoundBlaster cards

2 x DA-15 connectors

Multiplexed 4 x DA-15 connector box

 

Case

Generic beige-white in-winn desktop case

 

Keyboard

Lenovo standard usb keyboard

KU-0225 41A5100

 

Mouse

Micro Innovations

Optical

2 button + scroll wheel

 

Monitor

Samsung Syncmaster T260HD

1920x1200

16:10