My classic computer is better than today's modern machines because..

[Gamemoose]

I can still do just about all my daily computing from my old Amiga A1200, I love the OS and much prefer the keyboard to anything else I've typed on. Chatting on IRC, browsing my favourite websites, listening to streaming online radio, viewing my Twitter feed, using a package manager to keep my system updated, while logged into my favourite online game, Dynamite! I could also run my word processor and print from my Amiga too if I wanted.

 

Wow! I had no idea you could do that on an Amiga! Out of curiosity- how compliant is the web browser with sites of this day and age?

[BydoEmpire]

I can still do just about all my daily computing from my old Amiga A1200, I love the OS and much prefer the keyboard to anything else I've typed on. Chatting on IRC, browsing my favourite websites, listening to streaming online radio, viewing my Twitter feed, using a package manager to keep my system updated, while logged into my favourite online game, Dynamite! I could also run my word processor and print from my Amiga too if I wanted.

 

Fantastic!

[JamesD]

Even though I had a PC I continued to use my Amiga 3000 all the way through the '90s.

I much preferred the programming environment I had on it to anything I've ever had on a PC.

[Keatah]

As much as I hated that godforsaken platform; I continued to use it for PhotonPaint for several years AFTER I acquired a PC. There were a few things the damned thing did with elegance and practicality that would have cost me a pretty penny (in terms of software) on the PC.

[Nebulon]

Fantastic!

I have an Amiga 4000/040 and I've never taken it onto the web before (just old-skool BBS systems).

 

What would I do to get it surfing websites?

[ianoid]

Built in keyboard and each key has, like, a 2 inch throw.

[TPA5]

I can still do just about all my daily computing from my old Amiga A1200, I love the OS and much prefer the keyboard to anything else I've typed on. Chatting on IRC, browsing my favourite websites, listening to streaming online radio, viewing my Twitter feed, using a package manager to keep my system updated, while logged into my favourite online game, Dynamite! I could also run my word processor and print from my Amiga too if I wanted.

 

That's just awesome, I love it! I don't like to casually toss out definitive's, but I have to say you're probably one of a very few using hardware that old as your daily machine.

 

Also, when I clicked the picture to make it larger, I noticed the cat and pissed myself for a moment.

[X900BattleGrape]

It can boil water or make coffee automatically, just like I was promised in the 80's!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlhHo3ZUJO0&feature=youtu.be

[stevenhowlett]

Classic computers spawned a new generation of fans that wanted to learn how to program their machines.

 

Classic computer users were do-ers, they created stuff, they were innovaters.

 

Modern computer users are just that... users.

[Keatah]

I don't see nobody creating anything on their ipads. It's all consumption.

[jaybird3rd]

I don't see nobody creating anything on their ipads.

... except tweets and goofy selfies. Constantly.

 

It may be a minority opinion these days, but Israel's Prime Minister Netanyahu has it right:

 

"I don't understand this new world," Netanyahu complains.

 

"When do they have time to live? They're taking pictures all the time."

 

The prime minister then raises his hands, clicking on an imaginary camera.

 

"Only taking pictures, that's all they do. Pictures, pictures, pictures."

 

Another unseen voice then tells Netanyahu that "if you did not take a picture, it's as if you didn't live," or take part, in the occurrence.

 

"I've lived and did not take a picture," the prime minister responds. He then comes to the realization that he holds the minority opinion on the matter.

 

"I'm the only one here without all these electronic devices, I'm a free man, and you all are slaves," he concludes. "You are slaves!"

[Keatah]

I heard about that.. Excellent!

What I want to know is what "occurrence" ??

 

And he's right, they're all slaves to operating, inputting, being artificially busy, all for the betterment of others (through corporate profits) than themselves.

[X900BattleGrape]

Classic computers spawned a new generation of fans that wanted to learn how to program their machines.

 

Your comment immediately put this song in my head! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts96J7HhO28

[RobertLM78]

Your comment immediately put this song in my head! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts96J7HhO28

:thumbsup: Great song!

[Michael David Morsette]

I can still do just about all my daily computing from my old Amiga A1200, I love the OS and much prefer the keyboard to anything else I've typed on. Chatting on IRC, browsing my favourite websites, listening to streaming online radio, viewing my Twitter feed, using a package manager to keep my system updated, while logged into my favourite online game, Dynamite! I could also run my word processor and print from my Amiga too if I wanted.

 

I love that setup. I have been thinking of setting up an old Mac. We had a Mac 512k as a kid, would be cool to get that setup again. I wonder if it would be usable for most of what I do...

[John_L]

I don't see nobody creating anything on their ipads. It's all consumption.

 

Then you're not looking in the right place. Try watching Apple's WWDC. 5000 people who paid $1599.00 plus 200 freebies Apple gave out to students to gain access to a weekend of talks and workshops where developers interact with hundreds of Apple engineers. Not to mention the thousands more who watch via the web, and develop on their own despite not being able to get tickets (Apple capped WWDC 2014 at 5000). Where do you think most of the 1.7 million apps on the App Store come from? If you don't see anyone creating anything, it's because your not looking. Because if you did, you wouldn't have to look far...

 

https://developer.apple.com/videos/wwdc/2014/

[The Usotsuki]

Figured it was people on Macs, not iPads, creating them.

[John_L]

All iPhone/iPad/iPod touch Apps are developed on Macs, or at least systems running OS X as there are numerous "Hackintosh"es these days. Apple has a strict policy regarding programs running on iDevices. Those devices are locked down, and user developed application software runs in a "sandbox" that protects the system taken over by an App running, therefore implementing a development package for the devices would be exceedingly difficult.

 

The OS X development package includes emulators for iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touches, so developers can code in a desktop environment and test software without having to export the code to a real device.

 

Although Python is available for iPhone/iPad...

Edited July 12, 2014 by John_L

[Keatah]

The OS X development package includes emulators for iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touches, so developers can code in a desktop environment and test software without having to export the code to a real device.

 

 

No wonder why there's so many funky quirks - at least among the non-Apple apps.

[John_L]

Well, opposite to what is commonly believed, Apple will OK any app that follows a narrow set of rules, it must work as advertised, can't have hidden functionality, and obviously can't have any malware, but beyond that, there's nothing that says it can't suck. I've seen a few apps that are poorly written and have terrible graphics, but as long as it works, you can get it on the App Store. That's a pretty small percentage though, there's a ton of games and apps that are well written. The closer you follow Apple's coding guide, the smoother your App will run, but I'm sure alot of developers don't follow that rule. There have been alot of complaints that developers can't access other parts of the phone, but Apple has done alot to create "safe" API's that allow access to data outside the app (i.e. contacts), without compromising the phone or users privacy. There's been alot of complaints about how locked down the phone is for developers, but I can say I've never had any malware of phishing scams to worry about. Android has been plagued with that, and even Google has begun to end the free for all environment to curb the influx of malware and phishing scams.

[jaybird3rd]

I don't see nobody creating anything on their ipads. It's all consumption.

Then you're not looking in the right place.

I think he's referring to the end users, not to the developers who create the apps. From the users' point of view, tablets like the iPad are primarily seen as consumption devices; to the extent that users can create anything on the iPad itself, they must work within the strict limits of what the apps allow them to do. That's not the same thing as the early personal computers, which were generally more open and allowed a wider range of creative exploration.

[Keatah]

That's absolutely what I wanted to say. Of course there's thousands of developers for tablets today.

 

But if you purchased a classic 8-bit machine, 16-bit machine, or early PC - you were much more likely to create something original. Whether it was technical stuff with real programming language or a database framework, or writing in a word processor or doing some kind of art work.. Whatever! The users of older hardware tended to explore it more, and how it worked and how to do something new.

 

For example I was learning fractal mathematics and electronic circuit simulation. And that was one of the reasons I got a DX2/50 back then. That and to play Doom! I also wanted something that was more in-line with business, file-interchange and interoperability, and a more options for longer term storage with higher capacity.

 

As I transitioned from the Apple II to the PC, I had a series of hissy-fits and rampages with that god forsaken amiga. Nothing worked on the damned thing, except a few high-cost store bought games. And anytime I wanted to do something it seems I had to outlay loads of cash.

 

I kept waiting for games with Babylon-5 graphics to come out. They never did.

 

I missed the whole 8086, 286, and 386 era, mostly, because of that bastardized amiga! The promise of multi-media, art and graphics and sound and video production and 3D rendering. FUCK IT ALL YOU SHIT BASTARD COMMODORE! Do you know how much extra money you'd need to spend to do any of those things in any substantial form? Thousands upon thousands! And the piss headed marketing guys made you think the computer was all ready to do that out of the box!

BULLSHIT!!!

 

Playing with my mom's pig-bastard was more honest fun than anything this machine could offer.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Keatah

[John_L]

I think he's referring to the end users, not to the developers who create the apps. From the users' point of view, tablets like the iPad are primarily seen as consumption devices; to the extent that users can create anything on the iPad itself, they must work within the strict limits of what the apps allow them to do. That's not the same thing as the early personal computers, which were generally more open and allowed a wider range of creative exploration.

 

OK, yeah, I get what you're saying... and that's a completely correct statement, but that's the entire point behind the iPad. It's also shows the genius of Steve Jobs. Tablets and such area designed specifically to be what they are. In other words, Steve Jobs looked at the average computer user, with heavy emphasis on average. Your typical user browses the web, sends and receives email and messages, plays games, and consumes multimedia audio/video. When the iPad came out, people like us, who are hobbyists, looked at it and see it as a closed, sandboxed environment not conducive to development (locally, on the device), but your typical end user looks at it as a viable replacement for their computer because it covers all the uses they want/need.

 

When the iPad came out, the industry, that has that same old school "this sucks for the developer so it'll never sell" mindset that mirrors the attitude you're talking about, and they predicted that Apple would sell less that 1 million iPads the first year... they sold 15 million, and in the 5 years it's been around, sales are over 200 million units... an overall average of 40 million units per year since it's release in 2010. This more than proves what Jobs was thinking was correct.

 

Old school users who programmed home computers are but a niche of a larger market. It all started with us... we were the ones who were the early adopters, the ones interested in programming, the ones who pushed the industry into what it is today, but Jobs never took his eye off the ball, with the ball being a device that anyone can use, not just us early adopters. In the early days, vintage computers were wide open systems where the user had full control of the hardware, but in a bid to make machines more powerful, there's been a long slow drift away from allowing control of the bare metal with ever increasing layers of obfuscation between the hardware and the end user software.

 

However, iPads are easily jailbroken, which gives the end users root access to the device, and with that, you "own" the machine at the hardware level and and full control over anything one would want to do, including the hobbyist. So, for those who want that sort of control over the device, it's easily obtainable.

Edited July 15, 2014 by John_L

[Tickled_Pink]

Much more fun to program. And if you wrote games you didn't have to be an artist.

[Nebulon]

That's absolutely what I wanted to say. Of course there's thousands of developers for tablets today.

 

But if you purchased a classic 8-bit machine, 16-bit machine, or early PC - you were much more likely to create something original. Whether it was technical stuff with real programming language or a database framework, or writing in a word processor or doing some kind of art work.. Whatever! The users of older hardware tended to explore it more, and how it worked and how to do something new.

 

For example I was learning fractal mathematics and electronic circuit simulation. And that was one of the reasons I got a DX2/50 back then. That and to play Doom! I also wanted something that was more in-line with business, file-interchange and interoperability, and a more options for longer term storage with higher capacity.

 

As I transitioned from the Apple II to the PC, I had a series of hissy-fits and rampages with that god forsaken amiga. Nothing worked on the damned thing, except a few high-cost store bought games. And anytime I wanted to do something it seems I had to outlay loads of cash.

 

I kept waiting for games with Babylon-5 graphics to come out. They never did.

 

I missed the whole 8086, 286, and 386 era, mostly, because of that bastardized amiga! The promise of multi-media, art and graphics and sound and video production and 3D rendering. FUCK IT ALL YOU SHIT BASTARD COMMODORE! Do you know how much extra money you'd need to spend to do any of those things in any substantial form? Thousands upon thousands! And the piss headed marketing guys made you think the computer was all ready to do that out of the box!

BULLSHIT!!!

 

Playing with my mom's pig-bastard was more honest fun than anything this machine could offer.

Wow. The anger -- all rooted from an unrealistic view of what a mid-80s/early-90s computer is capable of. Name one home computer prior to 1993 that can do Babylon 5 graphics in real-time. Even an SGI workstation couldn't do that back then.

 

As for doing 3D on an Amiga, I had no issues getting great results from LightWave (one of the least-expensive 3D apps on the market).

 

Video production - The Toaster (and Flyer) was descent for its time, although I didn't like having to pay extra for time-base correctors. But the alternatives were far more expensive.

 

And before Photoshop got its act together, what other choice was there for doing layering and transparencies in 2D paint apps other than the ones for the Amiga and Atari ST?

 

AmigaVision was a nice cheap way to do multimedia. Other computer manufacturers even set up kiosks with a PC in view and an Amiga running the actual multimedia presentation.

 

The first commercial VR stations by W-Industries were A3000 machines. I can't think of a more cost-effective way to run VR at the time.

 

Sound sampling and editing was a snap on that machine. A great example is DSS8+. It was cheap and excellent for its time. Then there was Sonix for analog synthesizer sound design on the Amiga. It sounded like a Moog. Not to mention tons of great MIDI sequencers (Music X, Bars and Pipes, etc...).

 

I spent years repairing and configuring 8086, 286, and 386 PCs. You didn't miss out on much. So why complain?

 

I'm curious to know what games actually didn't work on your Amiga. I ran thousands of them with no trouble and very rarely had issues. Usually it had to do with running the wrong region game on the machine.

 

As for the marketing comment.... I wasn't aware that Commodore did any marketing

 

 

Examples of Sonix output (see the Rob Baxter MP3s on the bottom half of the page):

http://www.blitter.com/~nebulous/amiga-audio.html