Do Atari 800Xl games, and XE games, work on the Atari 400?..

[ataridave]

The Atari 400 looks so deliciously retro, that I'd love to have one! But I don't know if most or all of the games that work on the 800XL work on the 400. That includes the XE games. I'm thinking cartridge games here, but I'd also like to know about disk games.

[+David_P]

You can upgrade the ram in a 400 to 48K; at that point most cartridge games will work. There will be some disk software that will not work.

[ataridave]

You can upgrade the ram in a 400 to 48K; at that point most cartridge games will work. There will be some disk software that will not work.

 

OK, thanks! When you upgrade it to 48K, does that involve any wiring or soldering? And, what's the best Atari 8-bit computer model for playing disk games?

Edited February 1, 2014 by ataridave

[bfollett]

There is a small chance the 400 could have a CTIA chip instead of a GTIA chip. You can do a simple poke from basic to check it. POKE 623,64 if the display doesn't change than you have a CTIA chip and you'll want to upgrade that.

[Marius]

I am seriously afraid that a lot of software still doesn't run... Even with Gtia and 48k

 

Especially the XE carts.

[ataridave]

Do all Atari 8-bit computers use the 1050 disk drive? I'm also interested in the XE computers; I love the Atari ST styling on them! The cartridge port is on the back of the XEs, but that's the only downside I see to them.

[+davidcalgary29]

Do all Atari 8-bit computers use the 1050 disk drive? I'm also interested in the XE computers; I love the Atari ST styling on them! The cartridge port is on the back of the XEs, but that's the only downside I see to them.

 

Ah...the choices, the choices. No, you do not need to obtain and use a 1050 if you want to collect a working system, circa 1985, but it was probably the biggest selling drive for the A8 and is still widely available. You can use the 1050 on any of the A8 machines. There are, however (and there's a recent thread on this) many better 3rd party drives for the A8. If you're really interested in collecting a useful library of A8 software, though, you really should look at one of the modern SD drives.

 

I don't believe that any one commercial A8 model will run ALL titles that were given a commercial release over the life of this system. There are pros and cons to every machine: the 800 is a beautiful machine (emphasis on 'machine'), but a hulk; the XL line has some native compatibility issues with the 400/800; the XE line has a mushy keyboard and very '80s styling. In the end, my best compromise was an A/V and memory upgraded 600XL that allows me to enjoy most NTSC (and many PAL) releases on a modern LCD TV.

 

You may want to check out the 8-bit FAQs on your quest for the 'perfect' A8.

[ataridave]

 

Ah...the choices, the choices. No, you do not need to obtain and use a 1050 if you want to collect a working system, circa 1985, but it was probably the biggest selling drive for the A8 and is still widely available. You can use the 1050 on any of the A8 machines. There are, however (and there's a recent thread on this) many better 3rd party drives for the A8. If you're really interested in collecting a useful library of A8 software, though, you really should look at one of the modern SD drives.

 

I don't believe that any one commercial A8 model will run ALL titles that were given a commercial release over the life of this system. There are pros and cons to every machine: the 800 is a beautiful machine (emphasis on 'machine'), but a hulk; the XL line has some native compatibility issues with the 400/800; the XE line has a mushy keyboard and very '80s styling. In the end, my best compromise was an A/V and memory upgraded 600XL that allows me to enjoy most NTSC (and many PAL) releases on a modern LCD TV.

 

You may want to check out the 8-bit FAQs on your quest for the 'perfect' A8.

 

 

 

I didn't know there were any 3rd party drives for the A8. Interesting.

Edited February 3, 2014 by ataridave

[ACML]

A 400 will run the same games as an 800 providing the RAM requirements are met. They both run the OS-B ROM OS and a 48K 400 is essentially 100% compatible with the original 800. There are several titles that will not run on the 400/800 OS-B. That's actually ironic as is was the incompatibility of the XL OS (1200XL to be exact) that killed the 1200XL. Today, there is only a fist full of titles that won't work on the 1200/600/800XL line and many more recent titles that won't work on the 400/800. The 400/800 will still run +95% of the software out there, but a few key titles will surely be missed. I will say this for the 400/800, of the remaining units out there, I bet a much higher percentage of them are still running compared the the XL and XE lines. Once you fix the 1200XL's keyboard, it is also rock solid and will continue to work for decades. The 400/800 and 1200XL were built when these were supposed to be +$1,000 or +$600 computers. Their materials and design are far superior to the 600/800XL and awful cheap XE lines. Plus they have four joystick ports. Some day I may actually use all four, but it hasn't happened yet.

[kenjennings]

Plus they have four joystick ports. Some day I may actually use all four, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

Get an Asteroids cart. And 3 friends.

Though the rocks were chunky blobs of color, when I went to college in 1985 this was THE party game for everyone on the dorm floor. Basically, it became four player or two team Space War with large obstacles. Atari really missed out capitalizing on the social aspect of gaming that the 400/800 allowed.

[+David_P]

One word: M.U.L.E.

 

You're welcome.

[kenjennings]

One word: M.U.L.E.

 

You're welcome.

 

MULE may require more brain power than drunk college students possess. Asteroids probably does not. :-) It may depend on one's definition of social gaming.

[Thorsten Günther]

If you want a "run everything" machine, it is really hard to find one. There are PAL/SECAM vs. NTSC timing issues to consider that affect several titles, yet mostly on NTSC machines (Millipede has glitches on PAL machines, but if I remember correctly, someone published a fixed version already - all(?) other games programmed with NTSC timing in mind will run, only somewhat slower and/or with slower music), there's the lack of two joystick ports on any machine newer than the 400/800, etc..

 

The best but by far not the cheapest choice would be to purchase a PAL (UK or continental doesn't matter) 800 and an Incognito board. The second best choice (IMHO) would be to start with an 800XL (by far the most common, and of better build quality than the XE line) and later invest in some upgrades (like additional RAM, switchable OS, second POKEY) as you dig deeper into these machines. The 800XL will run about 99% of all software titles available.

 

The 1050 is the cheapest good choice among disk drives, since the 810 does not have the 1050 Enhanced Density mode that is commonly used today. And it is still upgradeable using the Speedy board from ABBUC's Floppydoc.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Thorsten Günther

[ataridave]

A 400 will run the same games as an 800 providing the RAM requirements are met. They both run the OS-B ROM OS and a 48K 400 is essentially 100% compatible with the original 800. There are several titles that will not run on the 400/800 OS-B. That's actually ironic as is was the incompatibility of the XL OS (1200XL to be exact) that killed the 1200XL. Today, there is only a fist full of titles that won't work on the 1200/600/800XL line and many more recent titles that won't work on the 400/800. The 400/800 will still run +95% of the software out there, but a few key titles will surely be missed. I will say this for the 400/800, of the remaining units out there, I bet a much higher percentage of them are still running compared the the XL and XE lines. Once you fix the 1200XL's keyboard, it is also rock solid and will continue to work for decades. The 400/800 and 1200XL were built when these were supposed to be +$1,000 or +$600 computers. Their materials and design are far superior to the 600/800XL and awful cheap XE lines. Plus they have four joystick ports. Some day I may actually use all four, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

What games is the 1200XL incompatible with? All Atari 8-bt computers seem wildly expensive to me, at least on Ebay, other then the 800XL.

[ACML]

 

What games is the 1200XL incompatible with? All Atari 8-bt computers seem wildly expensive to me, at least on Ebay, other then the 800XL.

This list is not all inclusive, just what I've run across;

1) Acrobat

2) Dark Star

3) Final Flight

4) Ghost Hunter

5) Krazy Kritters

6) Run for the Money

7) Star Raiders Dual, not the Original

Atari Word Processor 1.0

These eight titles won't work on an XL machine. I need to elaborate on the 1200XL. Almost all 1200XL shipped with the Rev 10 OS which is very buggy. Atari fixed most of the bugs in Rev 11, but it never saw the light of day in shipped machines. The 1200XL was only in production for 6-8 months and they apparently decided to use all their Rev 10 ROMs. You can burn a Rev 11 on an EPROM or better yet burn the 600/800XL ROM OS. That OS retains all the 1200XL special functions for the F1-F4 keys and L1 and L2 LED.

[Paul Westphal]

There are a few cart and disk games that are 64k that wont run on a upgraded 48k 400. There are some bankswitched XE games like Crossbow,Thunderfox,Crime Buster,Desert Falcon and few others that wont run on a 48k 400. Keep in mind that these were disk games from the start so the disk versions will probably run in a 48k machine. All of the original ( brown, or black label, metal backed) Atari made carts will run on a stock 16k 400, as well as early 3rd party titles. Your best bet is to get a 800xl. But some early games wont run on it, though. ( there is a list at Atarimania and digital press ) . If you want to run these carts on your 800xl, Video 61 has a translator cart that will allow this. I have have a 48k GTIA 400 if you need one. Now start hitting garage sales, craigslist, and local game stores for some cheap games! Try Ebay as well. I recently got StarTrek for $4.99 with free shipping.

[ApolloBoy]

There are a few cart and disk games that are 64k that wont run on a upgraded 48k 400. There are some bankswitched XE games like Crossbow,Thunderfox,Crime Buster,Desert Falcon and few others that wont run on a 48k 400.

Actually a surprising number of XE carts run perfectly fine on a 48K system, and some will even work fine on just 32K. In fact I actually made a list of such games a few years back: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/136057-xegs-cart-compatiblity-list/?hl=%2Bthunderfox+%2B48k