Jaguar S-Video Cables

[UHATEIT]

I do use a switcher, a 4 in 1 out svideo one (RCA VH911R) which was cheap around $13 or so on Amazon, but it isn't powered and I think it probably doesn't ground well since all the items plugged into it with Svideo have the checkerboard. Really sucks that this only happens to svideo which is what I upgraded all my stuff to as it is sharper with less bleed than composite, if you can deal with the checkerboard. I have attached pics of my connected setup and what it looks like Everything is going in with svideo only and then output to svideo only, but they all have that checkerboard, some worse than others. The Jaguar was the WORST looking of them all which was odd since it was a dedicated svideo connection, wheras the 3DO which is dedicated svideo connection only actually looked perfect with no checkerboard! Those svideo/yellow combo cheapo cables however all have checkerboard through this switch. Probably could use a better ground, but the shape and size of this unit and the design is perfect otherwise! Fits right into the space I have and I dont have to see the wires coming out the front of the box which is common on other switches (all input and output are on the back so it looks cleaner) as some have 1 input on the front which looks odd to me.Maybe there is a way to pry this open and do something to ground it better? Or to disable the yellow portion of the connectors?

[+Stephen]

Nice collection - is that Nuon a DVDN501 or the 505?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Many of the larger switchers like my s700 have a front input because that was designed for use with a cam corder or other video source that wasn't meant to be a permanent hook up. Most of those also feature a door to cover the front inputs to hide them when not in use. My s700 does NOT have a door as I received it without one. And I do use the front input 3 on mine and the front Processor inputs for connecting consoles that won't fit in my space but i want a quick easy way to connect them to the rest of the system. So I do have an s-video and composite cable coming from that front input for that purpose. the front Processor input was meant for editing video and overlaying video sources..etc. But I use it as an Input # 8 for my Saturn through s-video. The front inputs don't bother me since my receiver has a front input on it as well and that can't be covered up.

 

Can you provide a picture of what the Jag through s-video looks like for comparison?

Edited April 6, 2018 by -^Cro§Bow^-

[UHATEIT]

Nice collection - is that Nuon a DVDN501 or the 505?

It's the N501. I don't know if Ive ever seen an N505 before (in person at least). I got this from a local guy with Freefall 3050AD and a controller. I wish there were more controllers out there as this is the non rotary one I have (wingman shaped)

[UHATEIT]

Here is the look of the checkerboard on svideo on the Jag, this seems next to impossible to capture this on a cell phone camera so I had to zoom in with my capture option after adding them to my computer and try to show you what I mean. It is definitely more noticeable in person, especially on the light blue on the cover screen of Alice's Mom's Rescue, and then anything with yellow or bright green really seems to show the checkerboard.

 

[Austin]

 

This is my experience on my Sony WEGA. It displays a great picture as-is even with composite, so the improvement S-Video gives is negligible at best in my case. I suppose it would vary depending on the type of screen, make/model, LCD/CRT, etc.

 

Kind of glad this thread was bumped. Ended up seeing this post and thinking how wrong it was, haha. Apparently back then I had simply been doing it wrong which is why I didn't see much of a difference. But now I can say that S-Video is a pretty significant increase in quality over composite.

[UHATEIT]

 

Kind of glad this thread was bumped. Ended up seeing this post and thinking how wrong it was, haha. Apparently back then I had simply been doing it wrong which is why I didn't see much of a difference. But now I can say that S-Video is a pretty significant increase in quality over composite.

Are you noticing any checkerboarding with your svideo? Direct to the tv or through a switch? Mine looks much better direct to the tv vs the switch as I think it's not properly grounding out on the svideo switch box I have. I'm wondering if taking it apart I can do something to ground it better

[+-^CrossBow^-]

You're checkeboard on the Jaguar logo is exactly what I'm talking about. I really only notice it on the color red when I use s-video. And now that I think about it, it mainly only shows up in the RED color hues when it does it on my TurboDuo as well. Makes me wonder if that color specifically is what does it.

 

However, my Saturn, 7800, SMS, Genesis and SNES jr are also connected via S-video to the same switcher and I do NOT see these patterns in those systems. I've assumed it to be something in the systems causing it.

 

I really need to get my jag up this weekend and see if I can take some good pics to show if it is doing it or not.

[Austin]

Are you noticing any checkerboarding with your svideo? Direct to the tv or through a switch? Mine looks much better direct to the tv vs the switch as I think it's not properly grounding out on the svideo switch box I have. I'm wondering if taking it apart I can do something to ground it better

 

I don't use S-Video with the Jaguar (I do RGB there). On other devices, there's no checker pattern when I use S-Video. I am going through a powered amplifier that feeds multiple devices at once.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Okay, I didn't take any new pics yet obviously, but these are the old pic I used to have posted in this thread that demonstrate pretty well what I see on my jaguar through s-video as opposed to composite:

 

Here is part of the Stones N Bones playfield on Pinball Fantasies on the Jaguar through my composite connection. And yes the rainbow effect is actually seen on the screen on that 2nd level ramp area-

 

 

 

Here is the same shot through my S-video connection. Notice that while the rainbow is gone, you can see the checkerboard of that ramp now. I'm assuming that one is intentional, but if you look on the right hand side you can see more checkerboard patterns there-

 

 

 

Here is a close-up of the right hand area through composite-

 

 

 

and the same right hand side through s-video showing the checkerboard/dithering pattern here-

 

 

 

I don't have a pic of the Jaguar logo, but it looks similar to what I was getting on my PCE with red colors through the old s-video method I had in place-

 

 

 

When in fact Rondo's title screen should look more like the composite image here-

 

 

 

So I think that is the same type of checkerboard pattern we are talking about. Only my Jaguar really produces this now through s-video and using a different s-video input source on my JVC jx-s700 doesn't get rid of them. Although the rest of my systems do not seem to exhibit this pattern. I feel is it something in the way the jaguar s-video is produced. I have seen my s-video splitter do this when the chroma signal is actually shared with the composite signal. My first s-video cable on my Dreamcast produces the exact same results and I was able to confirm it was a comp connection to the chroma when I took the cable apart and starting testing the connection points. I think I see this because my s-video splitter also has circuitry to automatically separate the Y and C from composite signals, but will produce this checkerboard pattern as a result. So my s-video splitter thinks the chroma off the jag is composite in nature.

 

[UHATEIT]

I see what you are talking about and mine looks the same, hard to take pics of it but I see what you mean on your checkerboard. If it is on a combo cable that still has the yellow video connector it seems that this is a common thing, probably as it is split apart. The Jaguar shows me the most noticeable of the checkerboard and could be the way the system produces its svideo signal like you said. When you brought up Dreamcast, I have a cheapo svideo combo cable and I get a good amount of checkerboard but it is a little more faint.

 

It really is too bad, since svideo looks superior to composite but then you have to deal with the checkerboard. I have dealt with that and liked the fact there is a lot less bleed I the red and green colors.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Well to be fair those are old pics I took some time back that I had to dig up. And I'm pretty sure that Pinball Fantasies isn't using the jag's full color abilities. So the dithering that is seen in those shots is likely the way it really looks and only through composite and artifacting does everything appear to blend in color wise.

 

The main thing to notice on the checkerboarding is to look at my Rondo of blood title screen shots. Look at the red in the logo and you will see the checkerboard i'm talking about on reds.

 

I did forget to mention this, but all of my systems use a dedicated s-video cable with separate audio cables. Including the Jaguar at the time I took those as I didn't even have audio connected and had a femail connections on the end of the cable I made that let me use a standard male to male s-video cable. Same for the TurboDUO pics, I've got a dedicated s-video female jack I installed on the back of it and use a separate s-video cable. I do not have any combo cables that have both a composite and s-video from them. So the checkerboard, at least with my jaguar is really there regardless. I believe it was still present when I took it off the switcher and just ran it through my composite/s-video converter. However, on a CRT these effects do NOT show up. So it could also be how my LED HDtvs process the signal as well from the converter. But again, not all of my retro s-video systems do this.

[UHATEIT]

Id love to have a dedicated svideo only connection for the Jaguar! The 3DO has direct connects on the back so I just have red/white audio and a good quality svideo going straight to the switcher. It still has shitty 3DO dotted graphics which I see on many colors, but no checkerboard!

[Austin]

So the dithering that is seen in those shots is likely the way it really looks and only through composite and artifacting does everything appear to blend in color wise.

 

Yep, this is exactly what is happening. The jump from composite to S-Video is pretty large, and artwork that was drawn with the intent of having pixels blur and blend together won't give the proper effect with S-Video. S-Video is a big step up from composite and with that increase in clarity you are simply seeing the art as it was really drawn, but perhaps not necessarily how it was expected to look back in the day on the average consumer display. I'm beginning to wonder if this is what UHATEIT is actually seeing, and not some form of interference or noise.

 

You see the same thing at the next step up with RGB and it's one of the compromises of using better output options with older consoles. It's a common sight with Genesis/Megadrive games in particular because so many relied on dithered patterns that blend together via composite or RF, providing a fake transparency effect. That's completely lost with better video signals.

[+CyranoJ]

Artifacting sucks.

[phoenixdownita]

I am not sure what UHATEIT sees is all imputable to dithering in the games.

He's showing the checkered pattern on the Jag logo .... I have not checked mine yet but that may be a different thing.

 

Wrt to dithering per se ... it doesn't suck as it was a mean to show more colors than actually available (or transparency via the built in low-pass filtering of the CRTs of the time on RF/Composite signals) ... wrt artifacting per se instead it was a way to show colors where none were available (Apple II comes to mind) but also to add colors where too few were available on screen at once (Atari 8bits mostly, but Tower Toppler on 7800 uses it for some god forsaken reason) and usually in NTSC land mostly (PAL artifacting was ... different ...).

 

So told I have a Dreamcast whose SVideo connection does show a checkered pattern and it's not due to planned-artifacting/dithering but to Y/C crosstalk:

https://bavc.github.io/avaa/artifacts/poor_yc_decoding.html

 

My other systems do not show that particular faint checkered pattern smeared all over only the one Dreamcast while using the SVideo cable (VGA is crystal clear instead).

 

So wrt UHATEIT situation it may be a poorly constructed SVideo cable (aside from dithering). I can tell you that when I bought my Jag SVideo cable on eBay I ended up having to resolder the connector at the Jag side myself because the seller did a poor job at it using the same ground for Y and C and Composite and Audio .... and that's a no-no .... after the "fix" it looked much much better.

[Zerosquare]

Here's how the Stones'n'Bones table looks like in Virtual Jaguar:

 

So, S-Video isn't to blame for this one, the original graphics show dither patterns.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Here's how the Stones'n'Bones table looks like in Virtual Jaguar:

Pinball fantasies.png

 

So, S-Video isn't to blame for this one, the original graphics show dither patterns.

 

Pretty much what I suspected. Also these same similar patterns are present on the PC version of Pinball Fantasies as well but I guess on the PC they don't look as jarring as they do on the Jag.

 

now about that Jaguar logo? Mine always produces the checkerboard pattern on that as well, but then it tends to do this with only with REDs on the screen through the Jag and my TurboDUO. I do agree that a poor s-video cable can be to blame for some of this, but all my systems use the same type of s-video cable with the exception of the SNES and Saturn. But my Genesis, SMS, 7800 do not exhibit these issues with red colors on screen. If it was an issue with improper ground, that is a bit trickier because technically, everything in the system is on the same ground. I know this because all ground sources in the system will have the same continuity from anywhere that ground exists. Now I might not have the ground of the chroma and luma separate, but I never have them on the exact same wire as the audio and composite. What I usually do whenever possible is to attach the ground for chroma and luma from the same ground that the video encoder is using that the signals originate from. Composite and audio I usually tie the ground together and ground them to somewhere along the ground plane on the main logic.

 

I still think the issue is poor chroma signals originating from the systems in my case for both the Jag and TurboDUO.

[Zerosquare]

The JagCD logo is not dithered:

[UHATEIT]

That's a gorgeous logo. Mine has dithering checkerboard in the red.

Edited April 10, 2018 by UHATEIT

[SoundGammon]

Best Electronics sells an enhanced S-Video Cable:

 

http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/jaguar.htm

 

Cleaner reds, no bleeding!