Atari computer/5200 question

[fast eddie]

Not sure if this is the right section but I'm sure someone would know these questions. I"m a newbie here and these questions are probably asked every other month. As a kid I had no access to any other Atari system besides a 2600 and I've been wanting to learn more about the earlier machines.

 

I've been wondering how much alike the Atari computer inners were compared the 5200. The games look very similar graphically and in sound. Many 5200 games seem to have been released on computer first then ported over to it.

 

Is the system basically a stripped down atari computer?

 

If its the same, why did they change the cartridge size?

 

Why so little ram? Was the intention to expand the ram later?

 

Was this system rushed? I've read that the controllers (while innovative at the time) werent reliable.

 

Why wasnt software continued even after the market crash? (from computer) After all, those that had the system would have liked new games and they could have helped sell inventory.

 

Was this system considered a failure or a minor hit? (The SMS of the early eighties)

 

Thanks

[ricortes]

;Is the system basically a stripped down atari computer?

Yes, only missing the 6520/PIA chip that is in the 800/400

;If its the same, why did they change the cartridge size?

Cartridges were the main method of software distribution at the time. Think of the Nintendo from the same era.

;Why so little ram? Was the intention to expand the ram later?

No, think of it as having enough for a high resolution screen and 8,000 variables for programming. The video display can use the ROM directly displayed to the screen i.e. PacMan type playfields.

;Was this system rushed? I've read that the controllers (while innovative at the time) werent reliable.

hehe, I knew a girl that worked in customer service at the time. She used to laugh at how when she got tired of people phoning in about the problems, she would dish out so much abuse so they wouldn't call back!

;Why wasnt software continued even after the market crash? (from computer) After all, those that had the system ;would have liked new games and they could have helped sell inventory.

There can be only one. Nintendo won during that era. Other consoles of the time like Sega or Turbo Graphics 16 had trouble getting shelf space too. The 5200 was a little long in the tooth compared to other systems. As always, it was about how hot the system was or killer ap/game. PC gaming was emerging. If you are a software programmer, which to you go for? A system with limited sales, costly carts, older technology, or something [newer, more units sold, more money to be made] Million reasons really.

;Was this system considered a failure or a minor hit? (The SMS of the early eighties)

We are obsessed with number one. For instance Ultima Online was considered insanely successful with a quarter of a million subscribers paying monthly fees until EverQuest came along and got to 500,000 subscribers. Soon as that happened, UO was considered a failure. Eventually World of Warcraft came along with 8 million subscribers which immediately relegated EQ to being a failure. See my point? No matter what, soon as a new record is set, the holder of the old record is considered a failure. No where else are things like that. I mean Jesse Owens Olympic records were all broken, but we don't go around saying he is a failure. Same holds true for Atari computers with something like 2 million sold. They are considered a failure by some people because Commodore sold 8 million.

[kamakazi]

To add to ricortes responses it seems that some of your questions are going to be more opinion based than depending on facts. Here are my two cents worth.

 

FACT: The 5200 was advertised as an at-home arcade machine. Only one other console did this and that was SNK's NEO*GEO system.

FACT: The 5200 was the first cartridge-based console that could closely-reproduce the "hit" arcade games people wanted to play at home. Check out QIX on the 5200 sometime.

FACT: The 5200 was the first system to have a dedicated PAUSE feature. Other consoles required mashing multiple buttons.

FACT: The 5200 was the first 4-player system even if only one officially published title took advantage of that feature. The other titles can be found in AA's store.

FACT: The 5200 joystick controllers combined two paddle controllers into a single, hand-held controller. It's the first analog controller to use a joystick scheme.

 

The 5200 is a very capable system and was as close as one could get to owning real arcade games at home. The Colecovision was its only true competitor. Both consoles are great but each got titles that the other one didn't. Most Universal and Epyx titles (Pepper II, Looping, Mouse Trap) were on ColecoVision while most Namco and Taito titles (Pole Position, Dig Dug, Pac-Man) were on Atari. Both got games from Parker Bros and few other third-party developers and even Atari brought a few games to the Colecovision. From a hardware standpoint having similar processors found in Atari's home computers, declared as the most powerful computers for their time, gave the 5200 a somewhat advantage. Games on the 8-bits could be brought over to the 5200 requiring only slight modifications for the joysticks and missing components (as mentioned). However, there were some games that made it to the 5200 first before the 400/800 got them where the 5200 port is easily the better port. Again, QIX is a good example of this. So is Space Dungeon.

 

My 5200 is an original 4-port and has lasted since new. The only real issues I have come across are with the controllers. They are what they are but when they work as they should they are some of the best controllers I've come across. I'd rather deal with faulty POTs than worn out 2600 CX-40 pads and that plastic insert. The 5200 does have a learning curve with the analog control scheme on all of its games. Once this curve is learned, however, the 5200 is a very fun system to own. And, yes, the 5200 was my first console ever while my school friends all had 2600 consoles.

 

If you plan on getting a 5200 just for collecting purposes where it will spend most of its life on a shelf then please pass the 5200 up. It is not a system that can sit on shelf for months at a time before being used again. It has to be played often to maintain a good working order and that is mainly because of the joysticks. They wear out more from not being used than actually being used if that makes sense. If you get one, however, and get Centipede and Missile Command then keep an eye out for the Trak-Ball controller.

Edited May 28, 2014 by kamakazi

[fast eddie]

Thanks for the replys. I was considering one but I may get a Atari computer at some point instead. The 5200 sounds like it might be a little to problematic if it requires alot of up keep.

[Bryan]

Is the system basically a stripped down atari computer?

Yes. They're different enough that the games aren't compatible without modifications, though.

 

 

If its the same, why did they change the cartridge size?

Do you mean in kbytes or physical size? The 5200 cartridges were designed to handle 32K while the computer cartridges were designed for 16K. I would imagine that the main reason is that games were getting bigger (especially disk-based games on the computer) and so much of the address space had no other purpose anyway. As far as the physical size goes, it was just to impress. Everything on that system was BIG!

 

 

Why so little ram? Was the intention to expand the ram later?

Remember that everything in ROM is stuff you don't need RAM for. If you load a 32K disk game, you need 32K + whatever RAM it takes to hold the screen and all the variables used by the game. So, typically it would require a 48K computer.

 

If the game is in 32K of ROM, then you only have to provide the extra 16K of workspace to have an effective 48K of total space.

 

 

Was this system rushed? I've read that the controllers (while innovative at the time) werent reliable.

This system was the result of Atari scrapping the 3200/Sylvia project. It was quick and easy to design because it relied on existing technology. The controllers were probably the biggest part of the whole project but they pretty much have a 100% failure rate and must be rebuilt.

http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/sylvia/sylvia.html

 

 

Why wasnt software continued even after the market crash? (from computer) After all, those that had the system would have liked new games and they could have helped sell inventory.

Video games were suddenly seen as a money loser and Warner was desperate to unload Atari. Jack Tramiel saw computers as the future of the company but continued support for the low-cost 2600.

 

 

Was this system considered a failure or a minor hit? (The SMS of the early eighties)

Others probably know the sales figures better than I, but I don't think anything sold as well as the Colecovision before the crash.

[fast eddie]

Once again, thanks for the excellent answers.

 

I was indeed thinking about the physical size of the carts. I was thinking maybe it would have been better to have made the computer games compatible with the 5200. They did later do that with the XE game system though.

 

Its really to bad about the controllers having such a high failure rate.

[Bryan]

I was thinking maybe it would have been better to have made the computer games compatible with the 5200.

At the time they had no interest in drawing a link between the two product lines. They were separate divisions within Atari and they considered their clientele to be different people. Besides, they wanted people to buy all new cartridges, not use existing ones.

 

It's such a tragedy that Atari took their customers for granted and killed the golden goose. Had they really tried, they could have stayed on top for a much longer time (and prevented the crash).

[RickR]

RE: Cartridge size -- Someone on the 5200 design staff must have really believed "Bigger is better". The cartridges are bigger for no good reason. And no end labels! The system itself is huge. Easily the biggest console in my collection.

[ricortes]

Once again, thanks for the excellent answers.

 

I was indeed thinking about the physical size of the carts. I was thinking maybe it would have been better to have made the computer games compatible with the 5200. They did later do that with the XE game system though.

 

Its really to bad about the controllers having such a high failure rate.

It ends up being a fatal flaw even if it didn't have to be. It really became what they were known for. Someone says 'Atari 5200' someone else will always chime in 'lousy controllers.' When you think of a Ford Pinto, you think of a rolling Molotov cocktail. All the positive points do not count as long as there is an easy negative truth. Just human nature. We focus on the blemish.

 

I've been involved in a number of commercial product developments and it would best be described as a circus. No joke, it could have been one of the manager's secretaries he was trying to impress said 'My nephew has trouble inserting the small cartridges' and larger cartridges become a must. One of the engineers may have had a brother in law in the injection molding business.

 

I'm reminded of anecdotal story about Toyota<?> building an assembly plant in the USA. Two top cities were Gary Indiana and San Diego. San Diego won. A representative from Gary asked "How did they win? We have lower taxes, property values, wages, we win on all counts." The Toyota manager replied "When a Japanese executive goes to visit their American plant, they don't want to go to Gary Indiana, they want to go to Southern California." In my experience, this is true for just about all cases. Any attempt, and there are many, to make rhyme or reason about corporate decision making are doomed to failure, including my own!

[gamecat80]

To add to ricortes responses it seems that some of your questions are going to be more opinion based than depending on facts. Here are my two cents worth.

 

FACT: The 5200 was advertised as an at-home arcade machine. Only one other console did this and that was SNK's NEO*GEO system.

 

 

The Bally Astrocade and ColecoVision were also advertised as home arcade machines.

 

 

To add to ricortes responses it seems that some of your questions are going to be more opinion based than depending on facts. Here are my two cents worth.

 

 

FACT: The 5200 was the first cartridge-based console that could closely-reproduce the "hit" arcade games people wanted to play at home.

 

The ColecoVision would argue with that. Many ppl consider the ColecoVision the "Neo-Geo of the early 80s" for a number of reasons...

 

To add to ricortes responses it seems that some of your questions are going to be more opinion based than depending on facts. Here are my two cents worth.

 

 

FACT: The 5200 was the first 4-player system even if only one officially published title took advantage of that feature.

 

The Bally Astrocade (released in early 1978) has 4 controller ports on the back of the unit. So, it was released some 4.5+ years before the Atari 5200