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Clint Thompson

I started off questioning why World Tour Racing is such garbage...

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...but then landed in the world of Atari Karts instead.

 

With my mind riddled with excuses as to why the frame rate could be so poor for such a potentially good game (too many sprites, polygon buildings, textures, bad programming, the list goes on..) I somehow got sidetracked to Atari Karts, which is the only truly playable, good racing game (imo) on the Jaguar. I had given so much credit back in the day to how original Atari Karts was, despite the fact that it was a Mario Kart ripoff, clone, or whatever you may want to call it... it still had a uniuqe charm of its own. With it's weird, fat turning vehicles and rather visually pleasing backdrops, I felt it held its own.

 

Then I stubmled across this and it completely wrecked that idea:

 

 

While I can't find a single trace linking Vivid Image / Ubisoft to Miracle Designs, I can't help but feel the game isn't somehow ported or directly copied from one or the other. Steven Dunn did the PC port but he mentions two other programmers helped (names aren't listed and I can't seem to track it down). Could it possibly be Filip Hautekeete or Peter Vermuelen? Maybe not... but just look at it!

 

From the way the cars move, the backdrops, and even the spinning characters and stats. Street Racer just gives me that Atari Kart feel. Now would you pay upward of $80 for that game on PC, like Atari Karts? ;-)

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Atari Karts is a good game, but when you say "only true good racer"... don't be forgeting about Super Burnout!

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I dunno, Atari Karts always reminded me more of a hi-color Wacky Wheels, or the SNES version of Street Racer. They're both 2D, unlike that DOS port's polygonal courses.

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I think Atari Karts flows better than the game in the video, but then I think Jaguar Bubsy flowed better than the Sega or SNES versions. Jaguar had a bit more power to work with.

 

And while made years later Merlin Racing on the Nuon is one of my favorite racing games. Atari Karts, (made by the same people) had a good lot of the earmarks seen later in Merlin Racing.

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I disagree with you: I really enjoy playing World Tour Racing. Usually people don't knows this game because they lack of Jag CD.

Beyond any technical aspects, I prefer playing WTR than Super Burn Out because the human vs human mode in SBO will just allow you to race without any other competitors than your human opponent while in WTR you are racing vs 10 other opponents and eventually we have far more fun playing WTR than SBO.

 

As WTR is on CD, it offers several nice sequences for opening, for victory or when you end up to the 6 first places and gain points and of course when you are winning the championship or lose it: quite cool and fun.

 

Intro sequences:

 

When you managed to reach the top of the world :)

Edited by Felyx

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For what it's worth (or not worth!) I have, at one time, simultaneously owned MD, SNES, PS1 and SATURN versions of Street Racer!

 

The reason being, I grew up with the SNES version and, upon learning of the differences between the other versions, wanted those too.

 

Basically, aside the ability to initiate ones own graphical tweaks via the usual PC set up, the DOS version IS identical to the Saturn & PS1 version.

 

For the record, the Saturn, PS1 and (seemingly) DOS versions actually don't play anywhere near as well as the SNES original. This isn't nostalgia tinted bias, as I owned ALL of these up until a year or so ago and NO LONGER own the SNES version, or the SNES to play it on.

 

SNES version just played and handled with much superiority > 32-bit versions. Seems the 32 bit iterations lost their feel and quality in the 'next gen' translation. Feels like a completely different game tbh, so much so, they (Ubisoft) should have just gone right ahead and made the 32-bit versions Street Racer II.

 

It may not have bettered its most obviously rival, but SNES Street Racer was AT LEAST as good as Super Mario Kart (I loved both, back in the day).

 

Having preferred BOTH 16-bit iterations of SRacer and SMKart > their next gen brethren, I am rather curious to see how Atari Karts stacks up - in its own right too. Shame its so unnecessarily expensive right now...

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I don't think World Tour Racing is anywhere near complete garbage. Its really good IMO just rough around the edges.

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Power Drive Rally is good. Though I realize some people might not enjoy the "top down" perspective.. Still need to pick up World Tour.

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For what it's worth (or not worth!) I have, at one time, simultaneously owned MD, SNES, PS1 and SATURN versions of Street Racer!

 

The reason being, I grew up with the SNES version and, upon learning of the differences between the other versions, wanted those too.

 

Basically, aside the ability to initiate ones own graphical tweaks via the usual PC set up, the DOS version IS identical to the Saturn & PS1 version.

 

For the record, the Saturn, PS1 and (seemingly) DOS versions actually don't play anywhere near as well as the SNES original. This isn't nostalgia tinted bias, as I owned ALL of these up until a year or so ago and NO LONGER own the SNES version, or the SNES to play it on.

 

SNES version just played and handled with much superiority > 32-bit versions. Seems the 32 bit iterations lost their feel and quality in the 'next gen' translation. Feels like a completely different game tbh, so much so, they (Ubisoft) should have just gone right ahead and made the 32-bit versions Street Racer II.

 

It may not have bettered its most obviously rival, but SNES Street Racer was AT LEAST as good as Super Mario Kart (I loved both, back in the day).

 

Having preferred BOTH 16-bit iterations of SRacer and SMKart > their next gen brethren, I am rather curious to see how Atari Karts stacks up - in its own right too. Shame its so unnecessarily expensive right now...

 

I actually write about that game being the best version on the SNES in the SNES chapter of "Vintage Game Consoles." It was a favorite of mine when the SNES was one of my primary systems (still have the game, of course), and think it's quite underrated. Until this topic was posted, I didn't consider how similar Atari Karts and this game were. Oddly, though, I think I'd give the aesthetic edge to the SNES version of Street Racer over Atari Karts. I'll have to do a live comparison at some point to be sure. In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if that impression holds true because Jaguar games did lack a certain polish generally speaking that their bigger budget counterparts on competing systems were able to achieve.

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I like Atari Karts and PDR, but I have to say that Super Burnout is far and away the best racing game on the Jag.

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I actually write about that game being the best version on the SNES in the SNES chapter of "Vintage Game Consoles." It was a favorite of mine when the SNES was one of my primary systems (still have the game, of course), and think it's quite underrated.

Well, I'm glad we agree Bill :)

 

Incidentally, I completely forgot to make a mention of the Megadrive version of Street Racer.

 

Yeah... it really wasn't very good. A very pared-back rendition indeed. Not at all dissimilar to comparing a NES and 2600 rendition of the same title vs hardware limitations. Played much more akin to a Lotus/TopGear effort vs the might of the SNES' mode 7s gargantuan efforts.

 

Definitely at the bottom of the pile I'm afraid...

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...but then landed in the world of Atari Karts instead.

 

With my mind riddled with excuses as to why the frame rate could be so poor for such a potentially good game (too many sprites, polygon buildings, textures, bad programming, the list goes on..) I somehow got sidetracked to Atari Karts, which is the only truly playable, good racing game (imo) on the Jaguar. I had given so much credit back in the day to how original Atari Karts was, despite the fact that it was a Mario Kart ripoff, clone, or whatever you may want to call it... it still had a uniuqe charm of its own. With it's weird, fat turning vehicles and rather visually pleasing backdrops, I felt it held its own.

 

Then I stubmled across this and it completely wrecked that idea:

 

 

While I can't find a single trace linking Vivid Image / Ubisoft to Miracle Designs, I can't help but feel the game isn't somehow ported or directly copied from one or the other. Steven Dunn did the PC port but he mentions two other programmers helped (names aren't listed and I can't seem to track it down). Could it possibly be Filip Hautekeete or Peter Vermuelen? Maybe not... but just look at it!

 

From the way the cars move, the backdrops, and even the spinning characters and stats. Street Racer just gives me that Atari Kart feel. Now would you pay upward of $80 for that game on PC, like Atari Karts? ;-)

 

 

There were actually a few games like Atari Karts that came out during that same time frame. I don't know who was the first, but I know Atari and Nintendo both weren't the first. They ALL look basically the same at least in look / feel... but that's just the genre of that game type.

 

There are a few good racing games, but it depends on what you consider good. What was "good" has changed signfiicantly over the years. In 1996, WTR was about average. There were better games that used a somewhat newer technology (like Hi-Octane, etc), but it was decent. For 2d / angle racers... Power Drive Rally is probably the best you'll see when it comes to RC ProAm style of games.

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Here is how WTR has been ranked by players on Yaronet french forum:

RZnA.jpg

"Bon" means good and the other possibilities were form top to bottom of the pic: piece of shit (nul), bad (mauvais), passable (same in french), good (bon), very good (trés bon) and no need for translation for Excellent.

 

Of course only 14 players voted but as you know, very few people is owning a Jag CD which is nevertheless the only way to play the games released on CD.

 

WTR is probably not an excellent game but is funny to play and surely doesn't deserve to be called a garbage.

Edited by Felyx
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I'd completely spaced Power Drive Rally - that game was awesome.

 

True, complete garbage isn't the right word and is too harsh since it's a valid effort and does have some nice touches but I used to hold WTR in a different light, until recently attempting to have a few rounds at 2-player mode. It's inexcusable, with FPS dipping into what seems to be 3-5fps.

Edited by Clint Thompson

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In 1996, WTR was about average. There were better games that used a somewhat newer technology (like Hi-Octane, etc), but it was decent.

Hmmm.

 

I would have thought that the likes of Ridge Racer (94), Ridge Racer Revolution (96), SEGA Rally (95), Daytona CCE (96) and, of course, Need for Speed for both PS1 and Saturn would have been better examples > HiOctane ;)

 

Or perhaps, more importantly, Formula 1 for PS1 (96) and Gran Turismo for PS1, just a year later (97).

 

Basically, WTRs 'standards', by 1996's gaming standards were not average, I'm afraid.

 

Maybe when compared to what the Jag had available in its library at the time, yes; WTR was decent.

 

But compared to what else was available, elsewhere, at that time... it was pretty poor.

 

As always, passion and love for the Jaguar or any underdog/failed console is awesome, but requires context and a lack of bias to remain realistic ;)

 

p.s. even better, just realised WTR was released in 97... not 96!!!

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Those other games had teams working on them. And those games don't stand up to todays smoothness standards either but they are still good games.

 

WTR was done for the most part by one guy with no help. 2 player is a little rough but is playable. My friend and I use to play it all the time.

 

It's a good game.

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Those other games had teams working on them. And those games don't stand up to todays smoothness standards either but they are still good games.

 

WTR was done for the most part by one guy with no help. 2 player is a little rough but is playable. My friend and I use to play it all the time.

 

It's a good game.

 

Sorry Chris. I have no idea where you're going with this re: today's standards and dev teams and one man teams.

 

At the end of the day, WTR didn't meet the standards of other available racing titles in 97.

 

If the game is going to be compromised because 1 man is developing it, then either don't release it or release it at a price that reflects the sub-standard of work involved vs the industry standard at that time. However, I'm sure the game wasn't £11.99 on release and the price of a full scale, fully manned development would have been expected.

 

Knowing the finicky nature of late era Jag development, the game was most probably either, started much earlier than its completion date or never intended to compete with other consoles same genre releases. Especially if under taken by a single individual.

 

That said, look how well Super Burnout and Tempest 2000 turned out.

 

Also, no one in this thread, whatsoever, was comparing ANY of these games with today's standards of racing game - as that completely falls out of context, discussion wise...

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Hmmm.

 

I would have thought that the likes of Ridge Racer (94), Ridge Racer Revolution (96), SEGA Rally (95), Daytona CCE (96) and, of course, Need for Speed for both PS1 and Saturn would have been better examples > HiOctane ;)

 

Or perhaps, more importantly, Formula 1 for PS1 (96) and Gran Turismo for PS1, just a year later (97).

 

Basically, WTRs 'standards', by 1996's gaming standards were not average, I'm afraid.

 

Maybe when compared to what the Jag had available in its library at the time, yes; WTR was decent.

 

But compared to what else was available, elsewhere, at that time... it was pretty poor.

 

As always, passion and love for the Jaguar or any underdog/failed console is awesome, but requires context and a lack of bias to remain realistic ;)

 

p.s. even better, just realised WTR was released in 97... not 96!!!

 

 

I guess I made the assumption that World Tour Racing was really a game that Atari had planned to release, but then with the discontinuation of the Jaguar in 1995, Telegames then basically took it and released it. I would be surprised, but I see WTR as a game that Atari probably had basically ready to release by 1995.

 

 

For what it's worth, I don't really consider anything from PlayStation or the Sega Saturn as competition because both those systems came out after the Jaguar. Not that simply being released after the fact is the point, but to be more specific, the whole industry went through MAJOR changes during the early to mid 90s. The Jaguar was released in what, 1992-1993? The Playstation was released just before Christmas of 1995. That's only three years, and just see how significant the improvement in technology. You basically went from games in the early 90s that were basically no better than Test Drive 3 (which was amazing for its time), to games that were on-par with Porsche Unleashed just 6-7 years later. For those of us who were well aware of what was going on during that time... many of us (on the PC side) basically went from running 286s and low-level 386s (DX if you're lucky) to only 1-2 years later, having a mid level 486 machine with a 32-bit graphics card that had ~4-8 megs of ram on it and with a 3D processor (VESA Local Bus). It was amazing what happened during that time.

 

The Jaguar was top of the line when it came out... but along with teh 3DO, it kind of paved the way for the "next gen" of video game systems like the PlayStation, Saturn, and Nintendo 64.

 

I don't have any unrealistic expectations of the Jaguar... it was great for the time, but the time just quickly changed.

 

If you look at games today... most stuff from PS1 through PS4 are not THAT much different (and many of them are just PC ports). There's no drastic or huge technology shift. Each system is basically more powerful, but they all have 3D processors in them, they just have more ram, better speed, and faster loading. I would say the only paradigm shift from PS1 to PS4 was really the online-interconnectivity.

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The Jaguar was top of the line when it came out... but along with teh 3DO, it kind of paved the way for the "next gen" of video game systems like the PlayStation, Saturn, and Nintendo 64.

 

I don't have any unrealistic expectations of the Jaguar... it was great for the time, but the time just quickly changed.

 

If you look at games today... most stuff from PS1 through PS4 are not THAT much different (and many of them are just PC ports). There's no drastic or huge technology shift. Each system is basically more powerful, but they all have 3D processors in them, they just have more ram, better speed, and faster loading. I would say the only paradigm shift from PS1 to PS4 was really the online-interconnectivity.

 

I think by the time the Jaguar was released, Atari was too far gone financially to fund the team sizes needed to compete effectively, particularly once the third parties failed to deliver on their promises once it was clear that the Jaguar wasn't going to sell. Atari did just fine on the Lynx in terms of expected quality levels, and I think, in retrospect, they might have been better off releasing the Panther as soon as they could have to get a toe hold in the 16-bit era. Even a financially weakened Atari could have potentially competed with the releases seen even after the first few years of the Genesis and Super NES. As it turns out, what we got with the Jaguar were releases that often weren't noticeably better than their 16-bit counterparts.

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I think by the time the Jaguar was released, Atari was too far gone financially to fund the team sizes needed to compete effectively, particularly once the third parties failed to deliver on their promises once it was clear that the Jaguar wasn't going to sell. Atari did just fine on the Lynx in terms of expected quality levels, and I think, in retrospect, they might have been better off releasing the Panther as soon as they could have to get a toe hold in the 16-bit era. Even a financially weakened Atari could have potentially competed with the releases seen even after the first few years of the Genesis and Super NES. As it turns out, what we got with the Jaguar were releases that often weren't noticeably better than their 16-bit counterparts.

 

I wonder how many of those releases were actually probably originally planned for the Panther instead of the Jaguar?

 

Brutal Sports Football comes to mind...

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val d'isere skiing and snowboarding deserves a little more notice imo, it's not a system-seller but i thought it was a fun game to play every once in awhile and it doesn't really do anything wrong other than lack the depth needed for long-term play.

 

As much as I want to like Atari Karts, Power Drive Rally, World Tour Racing I can't bring myself to do it.

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val d'isere skiing and snowboarding deserves a little more notice imo, it's not a system-seller but i thought it was a fun game to play every once in awhile and it doesn't really do anything wrong other than lack the depth needed for long-term play.

 

 

Lots of people seem to share that opinion, but I never personally liked the game. I thought the animation was choppy, the visuals mediocre, and the playability on the "not too much fun" side.

 

EDIT: I never knew there was an earlier SNES version. Looks like the playability came from that earlier iteration:

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Wow! I had no idea an SNES version existed either! Here I was impresesed by the background and even though the gameplay was just alright, I did end up playing it quite a bit. Probably far more than most Jaguar games actually. Ultra Vortek(x) got the most play by far though. One of my friends played the game for almost 7 hours straight to beat it. And another friend of mine spent a ridiculous amount of time to beat Blue Lightning without a Memory Track! (we left it on the entire time and would come back to it) and then remembering how satisfying it was watching the end sequence FMV to that game.. but then thinking to myself how many countless hours we spent playing the game for a quick 25 second hooray video :D

 

Lots of people seem to share that opinion, but I never personally liked the game. I thought the animation was choppy, the visuals mediocre, and the playability on the "not too much fun" side.

 

EDIT: I never knew there was an earlier SNES version. Looks like the playability came from that earlier iteration:

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Sorry Chris. I have no idea where you're going with this re: today's standards and dev teams and one man teams.

 

At the end of the day, WTR didn't meet the standards of other available racing titles in 97.

 

Pretty much this. The fact it was made by a one-man team is a shame, but it still doesn't change the fact that the finished [released] product wasn't very good.

 

In response to the rest of the thread:

 

1.) A friend and I have concluded that Atari Karts isn't a very good "Kart Racing" game in the traditional sense. I.e., Atari Karts lacks a lot of the things that Mario Kart established, things that made Mario Kart great--offensive weapons, a battle mode, etc. It is however at least a half-decent racing experience. It controls well, looks decent, runs smoothly, and can eventually give the player a solid sense of speed. My biggest complaint with it mostly has to do with the short track/race times. You can literally complete most races in under a minute and a half, and if I recall correctly there is no time trial or practice mode, so you can't just sit on a single track and practice it over and over.

 

2.) Super Burnout, IMO, is the best "racing" game on the system. It's fast, it looks good, and it requires some practice. If I recall correctly, it was made by a very small team as well.

 

3.) I have enjoyed the "Free Ride" snowboard portion of Val D'Isere. However, I have also typically viewed the game as essentially "OutRun on a snowboard." Coming at it from that angle, I think it's a really fun game, basically an OutRun-styled "driving game" where you simply attempt to go from point A to point B before the timer runs out. I've always felt the ground scrolling and scaling was pretty solid as well. It's nice and smooth, it doesn't seem to ever drop below 60fps, and combined with the solid controls it lends itself to be a very playable game even today.

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