Project -L

[+SoulBuster]

Should we bring Cash or can a credit card be used? Or Paypal?

Edited July 21, 2014 by SoulBuster

[Intymike]

 

I knew I saw this before

 

The patch for making Dreadnaught Factor compatible with PAL: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/209466-buggy-dreadnaught-factor/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2875558

 

If I only could patch a ROM...

[+intvsteve]

 

If I only could patch a ROM...

Sounds like this is something you can do easily w/ the jzIntv SDK. It comes with the bin2rom command line program that will do this for you.

 

However, this patch would need to be applied to the ROM that you download to the LTO Flash! I don't know that there are any plans to do something this game-specific, though that's ultimately up to Joe.

[+intvsteve]

 

I knew I saw this before

 

The patch for making Dreadnaught Factor compatible with PAL: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/209466-buggy-dreadnaught-factor/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2875558

Awesome! The power of the.cfg file is impressive.

[+intvsteve]

How about the RAM support for chess? Wait, does chess work on the CC3? I don't think it does, at least I never was able to get it to run on my CC3.

Hmm.. Good question. I wonder if that's another .cfg file issue. I seem to recall having problems with Chess at some point, and stumbling across an error in the .cfg file I had. Does it utterly fail to load, or crash during play? IIRC when I found the error, I was trying to run the ROM in jzIntv though and not an emulator. I had a .bin +.cfg version of it. IIRC I checked the .cfg I had against one on one of the Intellivision Lives/Rocks CDs.

[+Lathe26]

I believe that it can be made to work. If LTO Flash! has 1MB, I'm sure that it can offer 128 bytes for Chess. I believe I have Chess working on my CC3. Whenever you have the option, use the *.rom version rather than *.cfg+*.bin. Those *.cfg files are always getting misplaced, misnamed, wrong contents, etc, etc.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

Should we bring Cash or can a credit card be used? Or Paypal?

 

I don't know what options Joe is going to use for the order page.

 

At CGE, I would suspect CASH ONLY.

[+Rick Reynolds]

Hmm.. Good question. I wonder if that's another .cfg file issue. I seem to recall having problems with Chess at some point, and stumbling across an error in the .cfg file I had. Does it utterly fail to load, or crash during play? IIRC when I found the error, I was trying to run the ROM in jzIntv though and not an emulator. I had a .bin +.cfg version of it. IIRC I checked the .cfg I had against one on one of the Intellivision Lives/Rocks CDs.

 

Yeah, I can't claim to have done too much to try it on the CC3, other than load up my "standard" ROM for it. But that ROM runs fine in jzintv.

[voltron]

Chess should work on LTO flash. Joe was aware of issues with cc3 and other stuff and worked to make sure it wont be an issue with LTO Flash. Remember With LTO Flash you set it and forget it....

[IntyPod Burgertime]

Nah! We all love the Reynolds Research Department! Just ask Burgertime!

 

Will? You there?

I'm here. Just not as often as I like

Yup. Rick does a great job finding out what we need to know.

 

The LTO is really going to help the show out. Especially on my end, since I don't currently own all the games that we'll be reviewing. Won't have to emulate Spiker on my PC or go buy a copy within a couple weeks of decided to talk about it.

[+grips03]

 

LTO Flash's copy protection is based on keys built into the device. In the unlikely event a given unit goes kaput, I should be able to handle that one of two ways:

• Migrate the ROMs for the failed unit to support a different unit, or
• Migrate the keys from the failed unit to a different unit.

Either way, I'd need the failed unit in my possession in order to make the transfer. The failed unit would then be "out of circulation" once the other unit has taken over its identity. I haven't really worked out the details beyond that, honestly.

 

Can a purchased rom that was designed to work with LTO Flash copy protection feature also work with jzintv?

 

Would this require the LTO Flash to be plugged into the computer at the same time, i.e. in order for jzintv to read the 'key' from LTO Flash? If yes, would this be a one time event or each time the game was played.

[+SoulBuster]

Can a purchased rom that was designed to work with LTO Flash copy protection feature also work with jzintv?

 

Would this require the LTO Flash to be plugged into the computer at the same time, i.e. in order for jzintv to read the 'key' from LTO Flash? If yes, would this be a one time event or each time the game was played.

that sounds interesting.

 

I can see a possibility of making an online purchase with your LTO Flash plugged in and the delivery has it matched to your serial number when you download. No attendant involved. Probably future, but I can see it.

[intvnut]

 

It would be a blast if it can make Dreadnaught Factor PAL compatible! *day dream*

 

It should be possible to include the patch others quoted above in the GUI's bag of tricks. I was pretty sure I had attempted to fix that problem. :-)

 

 

Sadly, it can't quite work that much magic. Also, the tinny and out-of-sync sound in Shark! Shark! can't be patched. Some of these things require actual code modifications. Joe can explain the technical details, if that's desired. Likely those are already discussed in the programming forum or over in intvprog if your search-fu is good enough. (Much to the annoyance of others, my search-fu is still, even after decades of use, incompatible with productivity. )

 

I guess we should consider offering some "patch CFG" files for BIN files we recognize. If you look at the CFG file linked above, it includes the patch as a series of "poke" statements. The LTO Flash! ROM formatter understands those poke statements, so in theory we could offer patches for some things. I don't think we can easily fix the tinny sound in Shark! Shark!, or the football glitch in SuperPro Football. But, we can likely fix this bug.

 

I don't believe patches such as these have copyright issues, because they still require you to bring your own ROM. The patches make a minor modification to the ROM to fix a bug. The patch doesn't contain any meaningful portion of the original program code.

 

But yeah, the main bug-workaround support we claim with LTO Flash is to bypass the EXEC lockout on the Intellivision II, and to disable the ECS for games that aren't compatible with the ECS.

 

Speaking of ECS: Some games are "compatible with" the ECS, but the ECS doesn't really add much to the experience other than an extra menu to bypass. For example, Astrosmash. Works great with the ECS, and if you want to read its graphics in ECS BASIC you certainly can. Most of the time, though, you'll just want to blow up asteroids. The LTO Flash menu will let you choose between bypassing the ECS menu or not by default, and let you override it when you want to. That way, you can leave your ECS plugged in all the time, but it won't get in the way.

 

 

How about the RAM support for chess? Wait, does chess work on the CC3? I don't think it does, at least I never was able to get it to run on my CC3.

 

Chess requires 8 bit RAM support, and it should work fine on the CC3 and Intellicart. You do need a specially formatted ROM to make it work on those. It will work fine on LTO Flash!, as will Triple Challenge.

 

 

I forgot to ask: can software read/write files from the 32MB of storage that can be downloaded later to the PC? I'm thinking of non-game scenarios.

 

If not, perhaps the software can just communicate live with the PC over USB (would need a Windows / Mac app of course).

 

The filesystem actually provides for each program to have a private directory tree of files it can manage. I haven't yet written any APIs to expose this to game developers, however, or for the GUI to manage this. I did build it into the base filesystem structure though.

 

The filesystem is somewhat limited in capability. For example, it expects to know the size of the file at creation time, and the file size can't change. (You might be surprised how much complexity that restriction eliminates from the filesystem code.) Yes, that's fairly restrictive. Still, you can do quite a lot with such a filesystem.

 

 

Can a purchased rom that was designed to work with LTO Flash copy protection feature also work with jzintv?

 

Would this require the LTO Flash to be plugged into the computer at the same time, i.e. in order for jzintv to read the 'key' from LTO Flash? If yes, would this be a one time event or each time the game was played.

 

That would be tricky to do right in a way that didn't make it a trivial way to strip the copy protection. :-)

 

jzIntv itself is GPL, and so all its source code is available to anyone with a copy. Anything I'd put in jzIntv to try to protect the ROM once LTO Flash! has decrypted it can be taken out trivially. I would need to write a closed source emulator to allow LTO Flash! to be a copyright dongle for an emulator.

 

 

 

I don't know what options Joe is going to use for the order page.

 

At CGE, I would suspect CASH ONLY.

 

Cash it definitely king. I don't think I will accept PayPal for this product. I will have this figured out by September. :-)

[+intvsteve]

that sounds interesting.

 

I can see a possibility of making an online purchase with your LTO Flash plugged in and the delivery has it matched to your serial number when you download. No attendant involved. Probably future, but I can see it.

Guess that's got to go on the board. Don't hold your breath though. I'll never get to update website then!

[1980gamer]

I think the copy protection has certain plus's and maybe a few minus's as well.

The plus side has been covered above.

 

My only potential problem(s):

I would buy two flash carts, one for home and one for vacation location.

I hardly ever take the CC3 out of my Intellivision ( less some Super Pro Tennis etc. )

I have 2 CC3's one for each location. I don't have to carry carts back and forth. ( forget it 5 hours away...)

 

If I buy 2 JPL Flashes and later buy a JPL specific rom, I don't think I should have to buy it twice (at full price at least).

Even APPLE at is worst let my have an MP3 on 3 devices at once.

 

That is how I think of the CC3. It is an MP3 player. I don't need to have my CD's with me.

Also, I don't need the additional wear and tear on the cart ports inserting carts over and over.

 

I guess if the cart CIB is $65 and the ROM is $15, I might be okay with 2 ROM copies for $20? ( this kinda solves the IF MY CART FAILS as well )

 

Or if I buy the cart, do I get a discount rom copy? This may cut in to the buy 2 group... one to have one to use.

Of course, just having a rom available does this already!

 

Do free roms even hurt sales? I played Christmas Carol on ROM for free, before I bought the CIB version.

(not on purpose or anything... just getting around to ordering! Playing it was a great motivator though! )

 

I think collectors are collectors. I want the cart even if I only play it on the flash cart anyway.

 

Playing on an emulator was asked also. This is a great question, I actually like certain game using the keyboard much better than the controller. (4-tris, XmasCarol and pinball are a few )

The cart hooked up to establish the rom is a great idea. But I think MAC address or hard drive serial # would need to be added or someone could copy the folder or something?

 

It would be interesting to know how many of each home brew has sold. Those with freely available roms and those without?

Actually, I have 2 copies of D2K sitting right in front of me and I also have the ROM version on this laptop! Did the rom hurt D2K CIB sales?

 

This product looks really nice! I am not trying to be a ball buster, I am just an old fart that is used to things the way they are and maybe a little reluctant to change

 

Last question, When is paddle party and match 5 going to be sold as a bundle? Or did this happen and the website is out of date?

 

Looking forward to sending you some money!

Thanks.

 

 

[+intvsteve]

Provided we recognize the .bin / .rom of patch games, the updated .cfg could be automatically integrated. Not going to plan on that being in the 1.0 release, but perhaps as an update.

[intvnut]

 

Yeah, I can't claim to have done too much to try it on the CC3, other than load up my "standard" ROM for it. But that ROM runs fine in jzintv.

 

As I recall, to get it to work cleanly on the CC3 and Intellicart, you need to add a 'preload' section that overwrites the RAM at $D000 - $D3FF with zeros. Without that, Chess will get confused and crash.

 

See if this combination of steps works under Linux to make the ROM functional:

 

• head -c 16384 chess.bin > c.bin
• head -c 2048 /dev/zero >> c.bin

and then use this config:

[mapping]
$0000 - $1FFF = $5000

[preload]
$2000 - $23FF = $D000

[memattr]
$D000 - $D3FF = RAM 8

Kinda going off the top of my head here, since I'm at work.

Edited July 21, 2014 by intvnut

[Games For Your Intellivision]

1980Gamer wrote: "Do free roms even hurt sales? I played Christmas Carol on ROM for free, before I bought the CIB version.

(not on purpose or anything... just getting around to ordering! Playing it was a great motivator though! )

 

I think collectors are collectors. I want the cart even if I only play it on the flash cart anyway. "

 

I know of at least one high profile collector who admitted to me that he "hasn't gotten around to purchasing Christmas Carol because he has it on his CC3, and it is 'still available'."

 

Linking a homebrew to LTO Flash! can be done in two ways remember. You could have a ROM only work with LTO Flash! and not any other multi cart or emulator.....or you can link it to a specific LTO Flash! It doesn't always have to be 1 ROM for 1 LTO Flash! It could be 'This ROM works on LTO Flash!

 

In the case that you are talking about, if you have more than one LTO Flash! unit, a vendor could provide you with a ROM that is not locked to a specific unit. ROM sales could even be automated online.

 

Not everyone is going to sell their homebrew games for profit. Some people will be happy giving the game away when the CIB materials are paid for if they even release a CIB version.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

"When is paddle party and match 5 going to be sold as a bundle? Or did this happen and the website is out of date?"

 

Classic Game Publishers, Inc. is still in the process of moving overseas.

 

A limited number of materials will be sent there to build games. It is unclear how many copies of each title will be sent.

 

Unfortunately, bundling games did not have the desired effect regarding increasing sales numbers. We are re-evaluating our business model.

 

We are considering relaunching Paddle Party. However, this is probably not happening for a while.

[rjchamp3]

Sounds great

[+save2600]

 

Unfortunately, bundling games did not have the desired effect regarding increasing sales numbers. We are re-evaluating our business model.

 

 

Pretty simple:

 

A) do not bundle same titles together thinking most of us are hardcore 'one to play, one to shelve' whack-a-doodles that typically ends up making future ePay speculators out of "collectors".

 

B) give buyers the freedom of choice to make their own multi-title cost savings bundles.

 

[mdoerty]

I understand the reasoning behind tying a ROM to a specific LTO.

 

It is interesting though that Nintnedo uses basically the same approach to its digital sales and gamers generally dispise them for it. They complain that they cannot just reload games when buying replacement units. It also means that when a unit fails, you have to spend it back to Nintendo so it can transfer the games or change your replacement unit's "identity" to make it work with your purchased games.

 

Considering I have two Wiis, two 3 DSs and a WiU, I must not have much of a problem with such a policy.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

 

Pretty simple:

 

A) do not bundle same titles together thinking most of us are hardcore 'one to play, one to shelve' whack-a-doodles that typically ends up making future ePay speculators out of "collectors".

 

B) give buyers the freedom of choice to make their own multi-title cost savings bundles.

 

 

C) Just sell single carts for what they are worth and dump any bundles

[+save2600]

 

C) Just sell single carts for what they are worth and dump any bundles

 

Fair 'nuff… so we shouldn't be seeing any more $70+ releases then, right?

 

But, multi-titled bundled discounts are cool - especially when wanting to move slow moving inventory. Good incentive for some of us to pull the trigger on a title(s) that normally wouldn't interest us or want to pay full price for.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

And, to be fair. There are some people who buy one to keep shrinkwrapped and one to play. I don't think they would appreciate being called a 'whack-a-doodle'. You are assuming that I thought that everybody wanted two. Not at all.

 

My intention with bundling two Paddle Parties together was to get people to help with distribution, by taking advantage of the discount, and selling the other one, giving it away or using it to trade.

 

People didn't want to do this. And, when the sale was 'over' people refused to buy single copies unless I gave them the discount price. I learned my lesson.

 

Bundles of different games had no effect either. People simply put off buying in order to wait for a 'bundle'. Not saying I'll never bundle games together again, but I'm not keen on it.

 

Your assumption that I will sell more copies with lower prices is incorrect. This is not selling a commodity where price is the deciding factor on which item to buy.