Lynxpro Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 My idea was for the BIOS to check for the XBOARD and then disable any conflicting features to avoid possibility of hardware damage. Maybe even pop up a message to let the person know, just in case they have and XBOARD machine and don't realize it. I know there aren't many out there, but at least 50 were sold, so there's bound to be a few of them. From the looks of it, it should be easy to clone. Getting permission is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 From the looks of it, it should be easy to clone. Getting permission is a different story. I have a bare board, schematic and JEDEC file for the PLD, so it would be super easy. Finding the creator to get permission would definitely be be the hard part. I'm not sure it would be worth cloning though because it has some compatibility issue. It only works on one of my two 7800's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Xboard compatibility is a non-issue. There are very, very few people that actually installed it and for those that did it might have to be tough titties when it comes to the XM. Just remove the Xboard so you can get a major upgrade to the XM. Seriously, its a joke this is even brought up. The complaint of feature creep was argued years ago as the biggest obstacle to the completion of the XM. Yet, every single time this project has a small step forward, all of a sudden another obscure feature or compatibility should be looked into to satisfy like one or two guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Seriously, its a joke this is even brought up. The complaint of feature creep was argued years ago as the biggest obstacle to the completion of the XM. Yet, every single time this project has a small step forward, all of a sudden another obscure feature or compatibility should be looked into to satisfy like one or two guys. I understand where they're coming from not wanting to destroy someone's 7800 with an X-Board inside but this thing has taken as long as it took Charles DeMarr to finish high school at this point. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I understand where they're coming from not wanting to destroy someone's 7800 with an X-Board inside but this thing has taken as long as it took Charles DeMarr to finish high school at this point. I don't understand it at all. Just get another 7800 unit, problem solved. No sympathy for anyone wanting to hold up this thing any longer. Its really idiotic also to lament compatibility issues for something developed way after conception of the xm. What's next on the complaint list from the next nerd? Lack of WiFi? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 In for one XM wifi edition. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Seriously, its a joke this is even brought up. The complaint of feature creep was argued years ago as the biggest obstacle to the completion of the XM. Yet, every single time this project has a small step forward, all of a sudden another obscure feature or compatibility should be looked into to satisfy like one or two guys. I don't understand it at all. Just get another 7800 unit, problem solved. No sympathy for anyone wanting to hold up this thing any longer. Its really idiotic also to lament compatibility issues for something developed way after conception of the xm. What's next on the complaint list from the next nerd? Lack of WiFi? Trying to implement stereo with XBOARD and XM would be feature creep and is not something I would support. But adding some simple code to the BIOS to detect and handle the XBOARD scenerio is trivial and would have zero real impact on XM delivery. I'm not an asshole who is going to say f-you to someone who might plug an XM into an XBOARD equipped 7800 that they might not even know has it. Especially when it is trivial to prevent the problem in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 In for one XM wifi edition. Would it be too much to ask for a bottle opener? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Kai Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Trying to implement stereo with XBOARD and XM would be feature creep and is not something I would support. But adding some simple code to the BIOS to detect and handle the XBOARD scenerio is trivial and would have zero real impact on XM delivery. I'm not an asshole who is going to say f-you to someone who might plug an XM into an XBOARD equipped 7800 that they might not even know has it. Especially when it is trivial to prevent the problem in the first place. Its always a trivial thing until its not, and the project is extended another 5 years. Look, its fine to be considerate of potential problems, but is the mission of the xm to solve every potential issue that may one day to one person be a problem? That's really bad news for us if that's the case because rest assured, even more technology will continue on, and then the next thing and the next. I disagree anyway that a person so enveloped in this hobby, enough to know how to acquire an XM, would not know the status of their 7800. Some of these problems should simply be addressed outside of the xm project and not in any way even threaten to impede the slow as molasses progress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I had to google what an X-board was. I'd never heard of it,. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Its always a trivial thing until its not, and the project is extended another 5 years. Look, its fine to be considerate of potential problems, but is the mission of the xm to solve every potential issue that may one day to one person be a problem? That's really bad news for us if that's the case because rest assured, even more technology will continue on, and then the next thing and the next. I disagree anyway that a person so enveloped in this hobby, enough to know how to acquire an XM, would not know the status of their 7800. Some of these problems should simply be addressed outside of the xm project and not in any way even threaten to impede the slow as molasses progress. I totally understand being upset about all the delay's but they have nothing to do with the inner working of the BIOS or the XBOARD. The current design allows for the BIOS to be re-flashed in the field, so it doesn't even need to have every bell and wisitle implemented before shipment. It just needs all the key features in place and sufficiently tested. The key activities right now are getting the latest prototype's built and into peoples hands for testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 My idea was for the BIOS to check for the XBOARD and then disable any conflicting features to avoid possibility of hardware damage. Maybe even pop up a message to let the person know, just in case they have and XBOARD machine and don't realize it. I know there aren't many out there, but at least 50 were sold, so there's bound to be a few of them. Needs of the many? Just tossing it out there as this thing doesn't need any more reasons to be delayed, it's found plenty enough over the last near decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I had to google what an X-board was. I'd never heard of it,. Exactly. Neither have the other 99 percent of 7800 owners. 99 percent might be a little low as that would only account for 5k 7800 owners which there are many more surly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 My user name would only make sense to one of my fraternity brothers. TEP = Tau Epsilon Phi. I was member# 392 at my chapter. I knew I should have asked. I was #55 at my chapter (Tau Eta Epsilon / SUNY New Paltz). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 How about I promise there will be no delay due to checking for the XBOARD. Can we stop this nonsense now? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 How about I promise there will be no delay due to checking for the XBOARD. Can we stop this nonsense now? OK. Wasn't trying to be nonsensical in any way. I greatly appreciate the 2nd hand info from you as it's the closest thing any of us have to go on in regards to the XM. That isn't being said with any sort of callus or malaise intent either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I can't speak to the BIOS because it's not mine. That's all I know about it. I was working on one at one point so put a bit of thought into it. Pardon me if I've missed it, and I'm not trying to be rude but I thought - based on some stuff posted awhile back - that you had taken over the task of writing the XM BIOS to replace the work done in the past by the "Former Team Member Who Shall Not Be Named" who had basically stopped working, refused to turn over his WIP code and left the project in the lurch. If that's not the case, do you know what the current state of the XM BIOS is? Is Curt trying to make the existing BIOS code work better via revisions to the board design? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Exactly. Neither have the other 99 percent of 7800 owners. 99 percent might be a little low as that would only account for 5k 7800 owners which there are many more surly. Surely they're not ALL surly... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Surely they're not ALL surly... They're not. And don't call me Shirley! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 They're not. And don't call me Shirley! Nice one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I have a bare board, schematic and JEDEC file for the PLD, so it would be super easy. Finding the creator to get permission would definitely be be the hard part. I'm not sure it would be worth cloning though because it has some compatibility issue. It only works on one of my two 7800's. In fairness, console compatibility issues seem like they'll strike any of these add-on projects, whether we're talking the XBoard, the XM, the Concerto, etc. If one has a socketed MARIA, or is willing to mod their 7800 to get a socket, then the XBoard theoretically be a cheaper solution. No, one wouldn't combine an XM with a 7800 that already has an XBoard installed, but it would sorta "complement" it in the number of 7800s in the hands of enthusiasts that would have at least one POKEY mapped the same way and also the 128K RAM. The XBoard would obviously be cheaper to build if it could be cloned [with permission]. And some enthusiasts with multiple 7800s might opt to get one XM for one - which would help with certain hypothetical games that supported the YM2151, the XEGS Keyboard, the optional SIO, HSC - while opting for an XBoard in another 7800 just for the single/dual POKEY and the 128K. Just a thought. As for contacting the XBoard's designer, I'm sure Mr. AtariMax could help with that, if asked. Maybe getting a sticker to denote the hardware could be placed on the bottom of the 7800s and we could have a voluntary registry of serial #'s listed on AA to cut down on trying to plug in an XM into the same console... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidus79001 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Here is how I feel about it. The only compatibility that should be considered is just plain old vanilla Atari 7800 ProSystem specs, period. Trying to account for every possible configuration and mod is a losing battle where you are going to constantly to run into logistical issues trying to get all of the non standard components to play well together. Most people will only have a stock Atari 7800 in the first place. Any smart developer will try to reach the largest base of users (that in this case is this using an stock Atari 7800 Pro System), and not worry about trying satisfy every unique twist that be can thrown into the equation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I don't think there are any console mods besides the XBOARD. Video mod's don't need special treatment. The BIG challenge is actually "plain old vanilla" 7800. Just have to look at the Concerto "pilot" release for an example. The standard machine is where the challenge lies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Funny thought just occurred to me. More time has been spent debating XBOARD in this thread than it actually takes to write the code that would detect and manage it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 This is my last post on the topic. I'm an engineer and have been managing projects much larger than the XM for many years. All this talk about managing requirements and scope creep is a big duh to me. The features of the BIOS are NOT on the critical path, so stop lecturing me about it. Please. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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