Altirra 2.50 Final out

[w1k]

fandal says - everything with that BAS file is OK...

 

support original basic structure, why making something new, what doesnt work?

Edited February 8, 2015 by w1k

[phaeron]

The loader hardcodes an internal address deep within Atari BASIC. It's impossible to implement in another BASIC interpreter that isn't based upon Atari BASIC. Altirra BASIC can't do that because it needs to be legally independent.

 

 

support original basic structure, why making something new, what doesnt work?

 

Thanks for the unsolicited and rude advice. How about you write your own emulator and BASIC interpreter?

[w1k]

why making something new, what doesnt work?

[ricortes]

Language problem, there was nothing rude in Phaeron's comment.

 

There are Atari BASIC [A, B, C], BASIC XL, BASIC XE, and Turbo BASIC to name a few. Each one is different on some level.

 

If I read Phaeron's comment correctly, a part of the program does a jump directly to code in the cartridge. This is something that is not allowed because there may be other BASICs that are compatible with the routines in a different location. The BASIC he distributes with his emulator is yet another version with enhancements.

Edited February 8, 2015 by ricortes

[Mclaneinc]

Rick, I think its more of an attitude issue, as seen through the years W1k has shown the same 'want want' & rude attitude, shame developers have to put up with this.

 

W1k, like it or not by choosing to use the beta versions you ARE a 'tester', when reporting an issue then that is a bug report and bug reports need more info than "its not working". Always include a break down of what version you are using and what hardware you are emulating just as basic info. And please, don't jump ahead and blame the emulator when you don't have the technical knowledge to do so, as seen its the program making direct calls to places that should have used shadow locations, Altirra isn't to blame.

 

Please try and do this in the future, when developers are doing stuff for free in their own time they really don't need rude attitudes to suck the enthusiasm out of their hard work.

[snicklin]

I don't see what the problem is here.

 

If your software doesn't work under Altirra Basic, either don't do the illegal jumps or use an old Basic ROM.

 

If you're not doing illegal jumps, then you can report it as a bug.

 

If Phaeron still doesn't fix the issue for whatever reason, no problem, use an old Basic ROM.

 

If he does fix it, thanks for the report.

 

Simple.

[miker]

why making something new, what doesnt work?

 

Why still stay lamer and only troll there?

 

Feel free to leave this thread.

[Roydea6]

I am just a little hesitant to ask this after the last few posts, but I am have a problem with a basic programs also. I am using the latest built of Atlirra #39 and also Atbasic #136 and every time with SpartaDos 44x in the EMU and real hardware IF I open more than two channels the program eventually gives and ERROR 5 with line #. Using Atbasic #any with MyDos -EMU & real hardware- does not stop with this error.

 

My workaround has been to never active my Atbasic.rom slot with the Ultimate Setup.. while using SpartaDos but use the xex file version with other basic programs that don't use a third channel..

 

OPPs I forgot to mention that the three channel are : keyboard , drive directory , and disk file as #3,8,0,"Dx:mytext.txt"

Edited February 8, 2015 by rdea6

[Mclaneinc]

I am just a little hesitant to ask this after the last few posts

 

Please accept any apologies if the tone of the thread has put you off posting, your posts are always 110% useful and liked, W1k just seems to have this rather annoying attitude towards people when posting in here, sometimes he's ok but mostly its just trolling. I remember a while back when he said he was leaving the Atari community to do other things..

 

Some people just can't be trusted to keep their promises

 

Seriously, the more the merrier in here and maybe W1k will get that long awaited personality transplant he's been on the list for

[Roydea6]

SDXTESTX33ABAS.ATR

 

 

This atr has the offending basic program with atbasic.exe file for testing with the emulator or real hardware. The atr is bootable to SpartaDos X33A. and the program works ok with this DOS also but not SDX446.

 

Just wondering is it is a basic problem or SpartaDos 446 problem.

 

[fujidude]

I don't see what the problem is here.

 

If your software doesn't work under Altirra Basic, either don't do the illegal jumps or use an old Basic ROM.

 

If you're not doing illegal jumps, then you can report it as a bug.

 

If Phaeron still doesn't fix the issue for whatever reason, no problem, use an old Basic ROM.

 

If he does fix it, thanks for the report.

 

Simple.

 

Yep. And besides that in this particular case, the "issue" isn't even a bug. That BASIC program is coded to call a routine specifically found in Atari BASIC. Won't work with any other basic that doesn't have that routine at the same memory address. Atari themselves always made a point of informing programmers not to do that kind of thing.

[drac030]

the program works ok with this DOS also but not SDX446.

I see the same issue under SDX 4.47. The program (catdir.bas, presumably) works well with Atari BASIC rev. C, but not with Altirra BASIC.

[Roydea6]

I see the same issue under SDX 4.47. The program (catdir.bas, presumably) works well with Atari BASIC rev. C, but not with Altirra BASIC.

Yes Basic 'C' and Turbobasic with SDX44x doesn't have this problem... Just the combo of SDX44x and Altirra Basic.

[atx4us]

Rick, I think its more of an attitude issue, as seen through the years W1k has shown the same 'want want' & rude attitude, shame developers have to put up with this.

 

W1k, like it or not by choosing to use the beta versions you ARE a 'tester', when reporting an issue then that is a bug report and bug reports need more info than "its not working". Always include a break down of what version you are using and what hardware you are emulating just as basic info. And please, don't jump ahead and blame the emulator when you don't have the technical knowledge to do so, as seen its the program making direct calls to places that should have used shadow locations, Altirra isn't to blame.

 

Please try and do this in the future, when developers are doing stuff for free in their own time they really don't need rude attitudes to suck the enthusiasm out of their hard work.

Well said!

 

Avery, we really appreciate your work and support. Please don't ever let ungrateful attitudes from certain individuals discourage the great work that you've been doing for the Atari community. Some people just can never be pleased and that's their problems and not yours. I know that you know that already. I just want to say that we're standing behind you.

[+Stephen]

why making something new, what doesnt work?

Congratulations, in my almost 14 years here, you are only the 3rd person to be put on ignore.

[flashjazzcat]

The attitude on display is one of a spoiled child. While we are certainly spoiled by this fantastic free software, there's no excuse for childishness.

[Mclaneinc]

I wish I could say it was a rare mistake by him but he's done this numerous time re Altirra and this tends to be his stance re most things, make snide comments and then act as if he had no idea what was wrong.

 

Another Internet Keyboard Rambo....

[fujidude]

I see the same issue under SDX 4.47. The program (catdir.bas, presumably) works well with Atari BASIC rev. C, but not with Altirra BASIC.

 

SDX 4.47? I thought 4.46 was the latest?

[flashjazzcat]

Drac030 has the honour of using 4.47 since he's one of its authors. We'll get to see it soon.

[fujidude]

Altirra Issue report

 

Symtom:

Altirra crashes.

 

Trigger:

Pressing the "menu" key on a 104(+) key keyboard.

 

Using Altirra 2.60t39 on Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit. Altirra 2.50 final also crashes with this as do both the 32 and 64 bit versions of both. Obviously an easy work around is just not press that key, but I have a feeling Avery would want to know that and mop that up.

 

 

 

[phaeron]

Fixes:

http://www.virtualdub.org/beta/Altirra-2.60-test40.zip

http://www.virtualdub.org/beta/Altirra-2.60-test40-src.zip

 

Menu key crash was just using the wrong window. Error 5 problem was due to a subtle issue when doing a direct putchar -- SDX expects ICAX1Z to be set, and because it wasn't, it was advancing the directory read pointer when writing to the file (!).

 

atbasic.bin

atbasicx.xex

[fujidude]

Drac030 has the honour of using 4.47 since he's one of its authors. We'll get to see it soon.

 

Ahh, no wonder. Knowing that would have saved me some internet searching.

[Monk]

Seems like a cool emulator.

 

The thing for me is, I have been trying to get Numen to work fullscreen with Soft15kHz and my VGA2SCART-cable, in authentic resolution, and .. looks like, I still can't.

 

I can get Yoomp! to work (with some odd, clunky-UI-emulator) in lores fullscreen on the television set that I have for the oldskool stuff (I use it for Arcade games as well, with an arcade-controller - the combination of authentic lores graphics on a bright and colorful TV with realistic controller is very satisfying when playing Arcadegames), but Numen doesn't seem to work with the emulator (AtariPlusPlus its name is, I think), and the emulator really brings lots of problems anyway (changing my window positions in Windows, and not supporting multiple monitors all that well - I have four (4) display devices connected, so things become messy really quickly).

 

So, although Numen obviously works with Altirra, and the UI is very user-friendly as well as system-friendly (though no MAMElike multiple monitors-support), and it lets the user even choose the desired fullscreen resolution (got my hopes up at this point), alas, it doesn't actually CHANGE / SWITCH the resolution, like I was hoping.

 

Also, there doesn't seem to be a "filtering off" and "stretching off"-modes or selections anywhere, although fiddling with the different 'proportional' settings seems to produce a relatively unfiltered 1x1 image (though not 2x2).

 

So my question is;

 

Would it be possible to make Numen work on my television (which is one of my four display devices that my PC is connected to simultaneously), in authentic lores resolution? (It didn't even display anything, when I moved the emulator to the television screen - although sound still worked. Of course I can work around this problem by making TV the number one (1) screen, but since the emulator doesn't seem to switch resolutions, there didn't seem to be much point going through that hassle - it really makes a mess of the window settings and stuff, so it's always a big pain to have to do it and then revert back)

 

And by 'authentic', I don't mean the exact same resolution that the Atari uses, but something like 320x240 or so, for example (I have a selection of various resolutions, and can even output a true SNes/NES-resolution nicely, and it looks perfect).

 

Too bad that most people who emulate systems, or code emulators of systems, and even talk about authenticity, don't really even aim to display the emulator screen on an authentic, bright CRT television - which is the only kind of display device that I think older computers and consoles and MAME games should ever be used on. I mean, there's this supposedly super-authentic SNes-emulator, that certainly does not support it, either - and which has a really user-hostile GUI to boot. What kind of authenticity is it, if you can't get the -display- to look authentic, as well?)

 

In any case, I am planning to acquire a real Atari 800 of some sort in the relatively near future, so this is no pressing matter or anything, I was just curious as to whether I am just too stupid to figure it out, and if there actually -is- possibility to remove all filtering and stuff (the real Atari doesn't filter its graphics, does it? I can understand things like "PAL Emulation", but I don't really get why anyone would want that ugly directx/direct3D-filtering that rounds the corners and makes everything look messy and artificial - and I think adding filtering should always be an option, not forced upon the user), and whether it'd be finally possible to see Numen on the television without interlace..

 

(The only other Atari 800 emulator that I know that Numen works with, doesn't give me 320x240 fullscreen mode, either, but there always has to be interlace, if I remember it correctly. AtariPlusPlus is the only emulator that lets me use emulated Atari 800 in lores on the television, and it looks gorgeous - but alas, I can't get Numen to work with it for some reason, I think it's a memory problem (it has been a long time since I last tinkered with it)).

 

If it's not possible, then I'd like to ask whether such features are planned for possible future releases.. so, are they? (:

 

Like with C64 emulation, I want either to have a good PAL Emulation (optional), or fullscreen lores without PAL emulation (because the TV glorifies the graphics anyway). But the real thing of course beats emulation always.

 

With C64 emulation (WinVice mostly), I can get all that I want (though with some hassle with different emulator versions, some of which do not support these things, either, and I need like three different versions to accomplish all the different modes I want to use it in - I can't even touch the most modern versions, they are mutilated into something unusable for me).

 

With Atari 800 emulation, I still haven't been able to make it happen.

 

The same goes with Amiga vs. Atari emulation - with WinUAE, I can EASILY utilize the television to maximum beauty and wonder - but with STeem, I can't. And NONE of the Atari ST-emulators that I have found and been able to make work, NONE of them support resolution switching.

 

If ALL emulators were like MAME, I know I would be living on a better planet or in the astral world or something.. but it's something to hope for. And when I say "like MAME", I mean configurability-wise (it's very configurable, and lets you choose not only the resolution, but the DISPLAY DEVICE as well! Though it bugs a heckuva lot with three active monitors - with four, or two, it's more compliant and usable, but this also depends on the version - and newer versions are better in behaviour, but so painfully slow to use, that it always seems to be a tradeoff)..

 

I wish emulator coders would look at MAME for configurability and think about multiple monitor setups and authentic television screens and Soft15kHz and VGA2SCART-cables and such... but since masses do not demand those, I guess, they feel that it'd be pointless to add such user-friendly features, generally speaking. And such is understandable - who wants to create features that only twenty people use?

 

Still, the more options and customization possibilities, the merrier.

 

Oh, another question: What's the point of offering a fullscreen resolution selection, if the emulator is not going to switch to that resolution after all?

 

I wish there would be "Stretch" and "Filtering" as "Yes/no"-options, and then you could select which mode you want - or perhaps the option "None" could be added to the menus for better user-friendliness. The way it is now, is like "WHICH stretching do you want?" and "WHICH filtering do you want?".

 

It's like asking "which flavor of ice cream do you want?" without considering that you might not actually want ice cream. (Except that in my opinion, filtering and all similar visual automated interpolation is like a box of spoiled rats instead of ice cream, but that's another story - properly executed PAL Emulation (Like in WinVice) excluded, of course), or "In which way do you want to be beaten up before sauna?". Not everyone wants to be beaten up before sauna.

 

Other than all that I have said, stated and asked, it really seems to be a really neat emulator with lots of options, and easier to use than Atari800Win (I got Numen working just by selecting it and .. well, changing the machine type to PAL and resetting, but getting it to work on a fresh, vanilla install of Atari800Win would be quite a hassle by comparison).

 

If it could do those proper display options like Mame and WinUAE can (and even WinVice with some annoying hassle), I would definitely see myself using Altirra probably pretty much exclusively for Atari 800 emulation, since it seems to be the most user-friendly of them all.

 

By the way, what is the signifigance of the name "Altirra"?

Edited February 12, 2015 by Monk

[Mclaneinc]

Wow, Avery may need a week to answer all those

 

The only one I can say a bit about is the Name Altirra....Its an Japanese Anime reference, its just something Avery liked rather than having any point to it.

 

By the way, what version of Altirra are you using because at one point it lost the fullscreen option (by accident) and in later versions there was no visible interface while in full view (although you could click to view it). Because of the speed Avery / Phaeron adds features I'd suggest keeping up with the beta's from this thread as for the most part they are very very stable and the inclusion of new features is very fast with often long beta periods so 2.50 to whenever 2.60 final comes will have so many changes its simply worth using the beta's.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Mclaneinc

[flashjazzcat]

Altirra switches to 640x480 @ 60Hz in full screen on a 1080p monitor no problem here. Ironic: one of the things which makes the emulated displays of Atari800WinPlus and Atari800MacX seem somewhat crude now are their complete lack of filtering and scaling options. Fixed 2x magnification in A8WinPlus looks completely unrealistic on the Windows desktop. Never considered trying to drive a vintage display device via an emulator running under Windows, though, I have to admit.