Fr0st Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Screw you Christmas hippies, i just hope this doesn't delay the Zippy release! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianC Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I haven't had any problems with California games with the real cart on my six switchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 (edited) I don't think it will go much lower, other market forces are going to come into play and boost the sagging price. Artificially induced, if necessary, to keep the energy industry going, at your expense. I would be happy to be proved wrong as we'll all benefit from continued affordable gas. The only dislike I have about cheap gas is that you got more indiscriminate idiots hot rodding around recklessly. When it was $4.50, people were more judicious. Wrong topic!! Edited December 23, 2014 by Keatah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I haven't had any problems with California games with the real cart on my six switchers.It was just a title one person mentioned as not working when I searched for problem carts on six switchers. I didn't intend to start a rumor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 It was just a title one person mentioned as not working when I searched for problem carts on six switchers. I didn't intend to start a rumor. Too late. It's on the internet. It is now fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Too late. It's on the internet. It is now fact. I like the strange but true type of facts, like in this instance where a vestigial diode and a capacitor on Melody (for the USB part of the Harmony which Melody doesn't have the USB parts) is the reason Melody does/does not run Stay Frosty 2 on six-switchers, yet always works from Harmony! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianC Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I tried the California Games cart on the six switcher again. It is fully playable, but doesn't display the title screen correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord_sasquatch Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I carried out the bridging mod yesterday I don't actually have any of the unplayable game but its for future when I get some lol. Atari still works but I don't know if it actually did anything because I can't test! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 The inductors are not on any other console but sixers. It was also an engineer who decided that the inductors were not actually necessary. Inductors wired like that can cause overvoltage and brownout conditions, the latter of which I think might be the problem. I'm not sure how you'd get overvoltage. The inductor will do two things: Becasue inductors slow the inrush of current, they will affect the power-up time of the cartridge. They also have parasitic resistance (because they're made of a long wire) so they can cause voltage droop if the cartridge pulls too much power. The 4-SW also has a longer reset at power up (24K vs 10K resistor on 6507 !RST). Someone could increase the value of this resistor on the 6-SW (with the inductor present) and see if the problem goes away. If it does, then it's a power up issue. If it doesn't, it's a voltage drop issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walaber Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I don't have a 6-switcher, I have a regular wood-colored one with 4 switches on the front, but Stay Frosty 2 (on cart from AtariAge) won't run. I just either get snow or a completely black screen when I try to start up the game If there is a ROM around I'll download it and test it on my Harmony to see if the problem is with the specific cart I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinMos3 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I'm having a problem with it not running too, but it's not with a six-switch. I've got a Vader and a 4-switch Woody and it's not working on either. I won't be able to test it on other systems until I return home on Jan 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I'm not sure how you'd get overvoltage. The inductor will do two things: Becasue inductors slow the inrush of current, they will affect the power-up time of the cartridge. They also have parasitic resistance (because they're made of a long wire) so they can cause voltage droop if the cartridge pulls too much power. The 4-SW also has a longer reset at power up (24K vs 10K resistor on 6507 !RST). Someone could increase the value of this resistor on the 6-SW (with the inductor present) and see if the problem goes away. If it does, then it's a power up issue. If it doesn't, it's a voltage drop issue. It's not a power up issue, because we don't see the behavior when SF2 is loaded to Harmony, which uses identical reset circuitry. You can get transient voltage spikes from inductors if there is a sudden drop in current demand from the device being powered because the inductor can't change its current flow quickly. For this same reason, a sudden increase in current demand could also cause a brownout. It's not necessarily a voltage drop issue. I will agree, however, that Melody's increased power (compared with a regular cart) is causing part of the problem. I am still confident it can be worked around in software, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 If there is a ROM around I'll download it and test it on my Harmony to see if the problem is with the specific cart I got.Yes, there is a ROM around, but testing with Harmony won't help, because the problem does not occur there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 If you guys are pursuing the the inductor route, what is the power requirement difference between Harmony and Melody? What does the SF2 program do the microcontroller on Melody? What does the extra USB/SD circuitry do with electrical loading? What about resonance interferences (an outside thought without any investigative evidence).. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 You can get transient voltage spikes from inductors if there is a sudden drop in current demand from the device being powered because the inductor can't change its current flow quickly. For this same reason, a sudden increase in current demand could also cause a brownout. It's not necessarily a voltage drop issue. Ah, I see what you're saying. I doubt it's going to be a noticeable issue in the 2600 environment, especially once you put a couple DC caps on the cartridge board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scmor92 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I just tested the batch of games I received for Christmas on my heavy sixer: Blinky Goes Up, X3V0LuX and Flappy work perfectly! Stay Frosty 2, Byte Before Christmas, Omicron and Pinata do not work at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 If you guys are pursuing the the inductor route, what is the power requirement difference between Harmony and Melody? What does the SF2 program do the microcontroller on Melody? What does the extra USB/SD circuitry do with electrical loading? What about resonance interferences (an outside thought without any investigative evidence).. Harmony uses more power but USB/SD and the EEPROM have additional bypass caps and the USB chip has a large power cap. SF2 uses more power than other games because it utililizes several peripherals, switches processor modes often and makes many more SRAM accesses. Ah, I see what you're saying. I doubt it's going to be a noticeable issue in the 2600 environment, especially once you put a couple DC caps on the cartridge board. More capacitance may also solve the problem. As above, Harmony has many caps, probably all adding up to a large capacitance value (especially the power cap on USB, downstream of the decoupling diode.) Melody doesn't have the additional bypass caps as the devices aren't there, and lacks the large power cap because it was intended and spec'ed for USB. The ARM could be leaning on these additional caps. These are Rev. 2 Melody. The original Melody did have an extra diode and cap, for USB in case it were to be turned into a Harmony, so it worked. The Rev. 1 Melody did not have the diode and cap because as with Rev. 2, these would not be turned into Harmony carts. It also had an extra diode in a different place. Long story short, this was a zener diode intended as a voltage regulator. Ultimately, LDO regulators were used instead as the zener proved inadequate when production samples came in, but the zener was left on anyway because it wouldn't hurt anything and might protect against ESD while I was handling boards. Well, the superfluous zener also protects against the inductor brownout. Hacking a zener onto the Rev. 2 Melody makes it work. I still have some Rev. 1 Melody, and these will be used for outstanding SF2 orders until I am able to fix the issue in software, which I believe I can do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Even though I'm not a Harmony or Melody user I'd prefer to see the capacitor/diode fix used. Unless you know how to control current spikes through software? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Even though I'm not a Harmony or Melody user I'd prefer to see the capacitor/diode fix used. Unless you know how to control current spikes through software? If Fred is able to come up with a software fix that allows the games to boot on the affected systems, that is the fix that is going to be used. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 If Fred is able to come up with a software fix that allows the games to boot on the affected systems, that is the fix that is going to be used.Would that fix be in e.g. the boot loader (or other common Melody code) or would every developer have to make sure himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Leach Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Can we get boxes for these carts soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Would that fix be in e.g. the boot loader (or other common Melody code) or would every developer have to make sure himself?No, future boards will have a hardware fix. I have already figured out a fix that uses existing solder pads on the board and is easy to do. Current problem games already out there will be voluntarily recalled. Ideally I will have a reliable software fix to reduce the financial impact and the labor needed. If we can't do a software fix, the carts will have to be opened, labels heat-gunned off, residue cleaned, board fixed, cart relabeled. Multiply that by a couple of hundred and you'll all see why a software fix is desirable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maiki Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 So they kept saying a heavy 6 switcher was a must have.. and here you have it Jr.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Phruby Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Can we get boxes for these carts soon? Why? Is your cartridge Frosty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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