Lost Dragon Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 :-) JagChris, they are'nt so much saying 'nothing was ever planned' (the coders i've spoken to/read in interviews in various UK Magazines alone, ie there's been no Jez San-esq quotes of: 'We never did any games on the Jaguar'), but that they never worked on any Jaguar related projects themselves, were not aware of anyone else within the building doing anything more than tinkering with the Jaguar etc etc.] And when future projects and formats they are to appear on cropped up in UK Mags at least, it's always same formats mentioned:32X, Saturn, PC CD and PS1.Never Jaguar.The 2 PR Guru's, Susie+Richard who Jeremy would have briefed, were given pretty detailed briefings by the sounds of it, Richards interview you've read, but Susie talking to C+VG about 32X Thunderhawk, went onto detail why you could'nt just port over MCD code, feedback they'd taken from MCD game, how 32X Thinderhawk would use 32X hardware etc, so Core seemed to ensure their PR people knew their stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Case in pont, Richard knew they were mock up T.R screens, briefed UK press, who ignored him. What bloody annoys me is whilst i've emailed Jeremy Heath Smith twice now and had nothing back, he clearly was interviewed at length for Retro Gamer Magazines Company Profile:Core Design, asked about the 32X, (yet either was'nt asked or did'nt answer) any questions on the bloody Jaguar, and thus could of answered questions about wether Soul Star was coded in-house (which is looking doubtful) or done by external party, maybe with Core over-seeing it?. So as a result, i've had to trawl through old mags to piece together what i've found so far on Swagman origins, Tomb Raider origins, then email coders 1-7, then try the P.R people and still searching now. Talking of UK Press though (and put this in my blog) bloody nightmare-i was looking for experienced Saturn coders, so found a feature on Company X, chap there quoted as saying A-Ha, if you code to Saturn hardware directly, it's more powerful than PS1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 (Cont).Fantastic thinks i, just the sort of fella i'm after, might give an alt.viewpoint on the Saturn VS PS1 debate, contact him, yes, happy to be interviewed, so send over big lot of Saturn based questions only to be told: ' Sorry I haven't got back to you. I don't really want to try to answer things I don't know anything about - like the Saturn architecture for example... while I coded a bit on PS1, Saturn isn't something I have any experience with.' I'm like Why i oughta.... :-(.Interview is far from waste of time though, we've just re-jigged it to talk about stuff he has worked on, inc.lost tech, but again it's another example of UK Press giving totally false viewpoints from people they use in team articles and why i go after the indivdual, not do a group Facebook type interview, as i don't trust quotes from Coder A in a team article, boxout+Photo, with list of games they worked on and Quotes from mean little, esp.if they are credited as working on games/platforms they never touched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I don't know I think SoulStar on the Jaguar was coded in-house. I have to look again but I don't remember any third party credits. That's usually one of the first things those companies do is put their stamp on stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Be great if someone could find out just where Jag Soul Star was coded, i've tried the usual sources (UK mags interviewing Core Design at that time and afterwards, Edge, Gamestm, Retrogamer etc, not a squeak have i turned up yet), approaching coders and P.R folk has yielded nothing either. It kinda speaks volumes on how the Jaguar is held, regard wise, when likes of Retrogamer magazine did speak to Jeremy when doing an article on Core and 32X is refered to/asked about, but not the Jaguar, hence we are left here looking for answers ourselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 :-) Ok then brief email exchange with Ex-Core Design Coder uncovered this little lot in terms of existing (MD era) projects CANNED to start on Next Gen Systems by Core ' if I remember right I think I had plans for a Master System platformer at some point, a first person shooter for Mega CD (using sprite scaling) and a few other bits and pieces that were only paper designs. Definitely nothing for the Jaguar ever though - it was a time of trying new ideas out and learning what to do with the host of Silicon Graphics workstations that Core had shelled out on (which is ultimately where Shellshock came from - building tanks, characters and pre rendered scenes for menus on the SG workstations and reusing the BC Racers code to scale the tank sprites)' 'Dunno about Shellshock on Jag - we developed on PC and PS1' Lost Dragon whistles away..... So again, like swagman which started out as level designer for MD, project moved to PS1(and PC etc).No Jaguar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 My memory is, what was the phrase used? 'hazy' was it? :-) But i swear i've seen Jaguar Shellshock paraded around on Lost Jaguar game threads and YouTube videos somewhere... Final quote from my contact: 'As I say, never touched a Jaguar myself during the time it was out - basically lots of Megadrive, Mega CD then PS1 was my route through that time' The search continues, but so far pattern starting to emerge of how Core were 'working' at the time, wrap up the MD/MCD stuff, scrap anything that had'nt got beyond concepts on paper, mess around with S.G.I workstations and get cracking on Saturn/PS1/PC CD stuff. More as/when i get the info given, still some lost MD/MS concept ideas that sadly never made it to games for Unseen64/GTW etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Be great if someone could find out just where Jag Soul Star was coded No idea where it was started, but I know where it was finished 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterG Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Aren't there any Credits IN the game? If anyone has seen them than it must be you CJ or Neo? Could shed some light on who has written the game. But more importantly how do I get my hands on the the finished version? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 No idea where it was started, but I know where it was finished Pffft! Speaking of, when are us lowly scumbags with disposable income gonna see a finalized, professionally produced version of this? Or is it going to be the freebie included with Rebooteroids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It's not really finished. It might be possible to play through for some people with some brands of CD in some JagCDs if all planets are aligned and you cross your fingers, cross your toes and cross your eyes. Neo wants to clean up all the video sequences and that will happen when the tools are available/when he feels like it/when he feels up to it. Then consider there won't ever be permission for a real release so that can never happen. CJ is just having fun making a joke, nothing more to it than that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Gets so frackin' thick in here sometimes, can't tell who's screwing around/telling jokes and when something's finally finished, offered up and sold out already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Ok, my last stab at getting info on Jaguar Soul Star, finally tracked down someone i needed to speak too (no mean feat in itself given the circumstances), email sent, asking to be forwarded onto person in question, all i can do now is wait. To be blunt here, chances of getting a reply are poor, but i had to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Bit more info on origins of Tomb Raider, from Lara's 1st steps segment of Edge magazines' Whatever happened to the Lara Lads' article, Gavin Rummery: 'I arrived 2 or 3 months in...and Toby said this what we are doing..and i said (pulls incredulous face) are we....?.When he described it to me i thought he was off his trolley.I've just come out of uni, never worked on a game and there's only 1 other programmer here.Are you sure?.My programmer brain was going 'a full 3D camera? how is that going to work?' and of course i had to design it from scratch, because no-one else was doing them' So again, as the years earlier interview with Core had shown, it was the problem getting the 3D camera to work that'd held up the game since it's origins 12 months before MCD BC Racers was finished and Gavin created it, from scratch for the PS1/Saturn/PC Tomb Raider we knew. I've yet to find a shred of evidence Tomb Raider in form we know it had any signs of life on Jaguar CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 As for the Soulstar 'lead', utter dead-end.Approach email sent, nothing heard, but might be just as well as interview would have thrown up certain..ahem, 'issues' as talking to someone about the past when they've so clearly put a lot behind them and moved on in a totally new direction shall we say...was always going to be difficult and i'd wager they honestly don't wish to discuss things from that era of their lifes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Wrapping up the 'investigation' into Core Design now.Everyone that i've approached would of replied by now, i'm pleased with info i have managed to obtain from various sources, we know the Edge shots were fake, got a good few quotes from Ex-Core staff on attitudes toward Jaguar, details on several lost games ryc.So been a worthwhile venture, time wise. Mentioned origins of Tomb Raider starting 12 months before BC Racers was done, but also: PS2 Project Eden started, in terms of discussion stage, straight after 1st Tomb Raider was finished (with Gavin Rummery having the 'great idea for a game' according to Adrain Smith.So origins there on hardware earlier than when it actually started game development, proper. Also in 1st design doc for Tomb raider, there was no water... Also Core hoped Herdy Gerdy would be as massive as Tomb Raider was...apparently Sony had seen it at the early stages and said it was something they wanted on PS2..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busterm Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I don't know I think SoulStar on the Jaguar was coded in-house. I have to look again but I don't remember any third party credits. That's usually one of the first things those companies do is put their stamp on stuff. Based off the payment schedule it looks like there was no outside developer attached. So unless Core was paying a 3rd party developer then http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/jaguar/jagfiles/jag64-payments.PDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Based off the payment schedule it looks like there was no outside developer attached. So unless Core was paying a 3rd party developer then http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/jaguar/jagfiles/jag64-payments.PDF LOL did they really pay those asshats over at Lore over 2 million dollars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Just forwarded a certain interview to Classic Console Magazine, chap in question worked on a number of 32 Bit platform games, i raised question of how big an issue implementing the 3D Camera was, as going from Core's interview with Edge, along with Gavin saying he built entire thing from scratch for PS1 Tomb Raider, it was interesting to hear the headaches it caused for other developers on PS1, let alone trying to do it on Jaguar hardware. Might be a while before interview is 'live' as Classic console Mag have used 2 of my interviews, now sat on a further 3, but hopefully readers will enjoy the insights brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Forwarded all the Core Design interviews i had/had taken part in/were aware of, inc Swagman Team, to HERE: http://www.core-design.com/interview17.html If anyones interested...good few other interviews on there for T.R fans to enjoy as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Closure at last on Jag CD Soulstar. Mr Andrew Smith, Core Design, interviewed back in early '95 talked of Jag Soulstar conversion and how the coders found it a difficult task to learn the hardware and try and get game finished for it's deadline (and given how it was never finished by Core..i guess that was too high a mountain to climb), how they ported main code from Mega CD version to the Jaguar version, also how they thought the Jaguar soundchip was the most impressive aspect of the hardware and how they felt they'd be able to do a cartridge version of Soulstar (comprimised of course in key areas to fit) and it'd be Atari's decision to do so, but if they decided they wanted Soulstar on cart, Core were confident they could do a decent conversion of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 And regarding Cough* Cough 'other' planned Core design games for the Jaguar/Jag CD, they did have a few of their titles on the list to convert, but some had been cancelled as they might have proved too difficult to port over, but we should expect more titles to appear (i guess he meant once Soulstar was finished). So, closure on Soulstar (in terms of was it coded in-house?) and misc other planned Core Design titles for Jag CD i guess (hope). You've had info from the coders and also PR side of things now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete5125 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 1/27/2015 at 6:02 AM, Lost Dragon said: @Major Havoc 2049:Ahhh, never heard of The Jaguar's Edge, but then being UK based... ? I'd be interested to know more about it though, as here in UK, EDGE was/still is seen as 'The Industry Bible' in it's eyes a 'Respected' publication etc etc, i guess this was why Atari approached them and funded the Jaguar Supplement.Thing with it though was that even though it was done via a 'respected' magazine, they still used shots they knew were 'fake' to annouce games never intended for the Jaguar. (Edge later airbrushed up Xbox D.O.A 3 screens in a preview, but that's a different matter). Ocean published the Jaguar conversions of Syndicate and Theme Park did they not? and given how 'Apeshit' and Lobo were canned, Waterworld just seems to have been discussed, it's doubtful they'd of done the Magic Carpet conversion. Did the USA mag say who was planning to convert Magic Carpet to Jaguar?. Q 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman000 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 On 1/7/2015 at 4:06 PM, Zerosquare said: I don't want to belittle your work, but was anyone still hoping a Jaguar version of Tomb Raider existed? We've seen that most of the Jaguar games which were announced at some point, but never came out, were only barely started, or even never existed at all. Any "lost" game should be considered vaporware unless there is solid proof of the contrary (I said "solid proof", so PR and game magazines don't count). Hoping? Sure. Believe it actually existed? ...I dunno. It’s not surprising that it never existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 On 6/4/2015 at 7:08 AM, Lost Dragon said: Closure at last on Jag CD Soulstar. ... and how they felt they'd be able to do a cartridge version of Soulstar (comprimised of course in key areas to fit) ... What the hell, I can necrobump too 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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