CPUWIZ Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I knew what it meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Looking at the arcade specs....this version will have to be toned down quite a bit and some features not included for the 7800 version... tokiarcade.PNG You are right! The developers reworked it quite a bit to get it on to the 7800. You will notice there is no parallax scrolling (in the 7800 / NES / Lynx versions). There are also fewer custom tiles, and a lower color depth. However, I think you can tell that the developers were careful to consider the limitations of the 7800 hardware when creating this version. For example, they made sure that the enemies had more distinct colors and the graphics are pretty refined. Compared to the NES version which has more detail but the graphics are a little sloppier and the enemies are smaller in scale. I'm not sure how well this takes advantage of the 7800 hardware but it's interesting to see them squeeze a game of much higher arcade specifications onto the 7800 and do a pretty good job at it! Edited February 2, 2015 by Willard 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Me wantey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomaios Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The 7800 version definitely looks a bit closer to the arcade. I generally favor the NES (especially with Galaga & Donkey Kong), but here I'm giving the edge to the 7800, at least from that screenshot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKON Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You are right! The developers reworked it quite a bit to get it on to the 7800. You will notice there is no parallax scrolling (in the 7800 / NES / Lynx versions). There are also fewer custom tiles, and a lower color depth. However, I think you can tell that the developers were careful to consider the limitations of the 7800 hardware when creating this version. For example, they made sure that the enemies had more distinct colors and the graphics are pretty refined. Compared to the NES version which has more detail but the graphics are a little sloppier and the enemies are smaller in scale. I'm not sure how well this takes advantage of the 7800 hardware but it's interesting to see them squeeze a game of much higher arcade specifications onto the 7800 and do a pretty good job at it! toki arcade vs nes vs 7800.PNG I think that the graphics are AWESOME...it would be nice just to see a short video clip of the actual gameplay even if it is not finished...it still amazes me what the 7800 is capable of...I would LOVE this game to be complete even in PAL format ( I am an emulator person). I mean these graphics are literally popping off the screen. I am so grateful to those who program for this console because it is really showcasing the 7800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 "JAGUAR RULES!" Hey Buddy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyBuddies Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hey Buddy! What's up my buddy!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Look at the specs for the NES version here: http://www.nintendocomplete.com/toki/ It used an MMC3 mapper, 3Mb ROM size, and it appears 128K and 256K on the side. And it still flickered! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 What's up my buddy! You know buddy, just doing what buddies do buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Really appreciate the comparison shots, Willard, thank you! To emphasize the impressive work done porting Toki for the 7800, this is the comparison shots including hardware resources provided to their respective ports: Handling Toki on any 8-bit platform can be a daunting task. Under the 7800, it is running with only 1/3 of the memory provided on cart compared to the NES, utilizing the base 7800 hardware with no assistance. A tremendous job...Kudos to the programmer(s)/developer(s) working under such restraints. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Runner 87 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Oh please please please I beg of thee, please release this in the AtariAge store.....I humbly beg... .. This game will certainly be one of the top 3 games.............I want it nooooowww!!!!!!!!!!!!!please Al and PmP......u must, u just must get this game out.......I'll give you my car....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Runner 87 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Will this be available on NTCS......I hope so, because I only have american Atari 7800 consoles.......oh God please....I'm going insane right now......Toki was my favorite Lynx games other than Stun Runner............I'm going to pray and pray and pray and beg the good lord to give you guys the power so that this gets accomplished.......AMEN??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Edited February 2, 2015 by Stun Runner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBuff Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Please, if a release is considered, make it suitable for NTSC & PAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Runner 87 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Again, thank you guys for finding this and investing time and effort.....Also thanks for sharing this info with the good people of AtariAge.com.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Runner 87 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Please, if a release is considered, make it suitable for NTSC & PAL.Yes, I totally agree that NTCS is very important....Most of us Dont have a European version console, or PAL t.v....... ? Edited February 2, 2015 by Stun Runner 87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) What difference does hardware usage make? This version looks the worst of all but the C64 edition. No wonder Atari threw in the towel when they were coding games in 1993 up against the 16-bitters. Looks sell.... Edited February 2, 2015 by Greg2600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Handling Toki on any 8-bit platform can be a daunting task. Under the 7800, it is running with only 1/3 of the memory provided on cart compared to the NES, utilizing the base 7800 hardware with no assistance. A tremendous job...Kudos to the programmer(s)/developer(s) working under such restraints. It is interesting to get a breakdown on the specs of each version. I will probably add that to the toki page when I get a chance! What difference does hardware usage make? Hardware usage may mean the difference between getting a game on the system or not being able to, or how much compromise you have to make in the process. My comparison was to show how closely they were able to get the 7800 version to the Arcade version as per NIKON's observation that the arcade specs are substantially better than those of the 7800. I think they did a pretty good job considering the target platform, only going by what I know of the hardware based on the games I have seen. This version looks the worst of all but the C64 edition. No wonder Atari threw in the towel when they were coding games in 1993 up against the 16-bitters. Looks sell.... I posted the NES comparison because I am always interested to see how games on different platforms compare. Obviously the hardware of all 3 are different so it is not to be a 1:1 comparison. I think that certain details on the 7800 version are more refined, but I tend to agree that the NES version is technically superior and has more color and detail. Personally I like the gameplay on the 7800 version better because the graphics are more to scale (the tiny enemies in the NES version are weird after playing the other 2 versions) but as you said looks sell! I don't think anybody is wondering why Atari threw in the towel on these games in 1993 when going up against 16-bit platforms. I think people are wondering why they were working on them to begin with! Regardless, this bizarre anomaly in Atari's history I think gives an opportunity to see a fairly ambitious effort on the 7800. Edited February 2, 2015 by Willard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 What difference does hardware usage make? This version looks the worst of all but the C64 edition. No wonder Atari threw in the towel when they were coding games in 1993 up against the 16-bitters. Looks sell.... Sir, I challenge that remark. Also unpublished, I present you the ZX Spectrum version! I think they did a pretty good job considering the target platform, only going by what I know of the hardware based on the games I have seen. I stand by my comment that this looks pretty damn impressive for a 7800 game. There are not many platformers on the system, and from what I have seen, Toki easily looks the best. The NES one may look better in some regards, the 7800 one wins in others. I honestly couldn't say from those pics which ones I prefer. I'f have to see more. For example I imagine the big boss thingies must flicker like hell on NES; that may well be better on the 7800. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) It is interesting to get a breakdown on the specs of each version. I will probably add that to the toki page when I get a chance! Hardware usage may mean the difference between getting a game on the system or not being able to, or how much compromise you have to make in the process. My comparison was to show how closely they were able to get the 7800 version to the Arcade version as per NIKON's observation that the arcade specs are substantially better than those of the 7800. I think they did a pretty good job considering the target platform, only going by what I know of the hardware based on the games I have seen. I posted the NES comparison because I am always interested to see how games on different platforms compare. Obviously the hardware of all 3 are different so it is not to be a 1:1 comparison. I think that certain details on the 7800 version are more refined, but I tend to agree that the NES version is technically superior and has more color and detail. Personally I like the gameplay on the 7800 version better because the graphics are more to scale (the tiny enemies in the NES version are weird after playing the other 2 versions) but as you said looks sell! I don't think anybody is wondering why Atari threw in the towel on these games in 1993 when going up against 16-bit platforms. I think people are wondering why they were working on them to begin with! Regardless, this bizarre anomaly in Atari's history I think gives an opportunity to see a fairly ambitious effort on the 7800. No, I found your comparison charts and images very useful! Good point on getting a lot from a little, although the consumer wouldn't have cared back then. You wonder now how many more titles were being worked on for the 7800, and have vanished into the ether? Sir, I challenge that remark. Also unpublished, I present you the ZX Spectrum version! I stand by my comment that this looks pretty damn impressive for a 7800 game. There are not many platformers on the system, and from what I have seen, Toki easily looks the best. The NES one may look better in some regards, the 7800 one wins in others. I honestly couldn't say from those pics which ones I prefer. I'f have to see more. For example I imagine the big boss thingies must flicker like hell on NES; that may well be better on the 7800. Ha ha. I'd have to consider the ZX Speccy a video game console first! Putrid! Edited February 2, 2015 by Greg2600 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomaios Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sir, I challenge that remark. Also unpublished, I present you the ZX Spectrum version! That's just not fair. The Speccy is always the worst version! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well there was another rumoured/lost 8 Bit Cart.version for the Amstrad GX400 (a console)/CPC+, to be published by Ocean.A screen appeared in Amstrad action, but is thought to be a mock-up (i've never owned an Amstrad so details are vague). In terms of home conversions?, here in the UK the ZX Spectrum had far better versions of R-Type, Afterburner, Wec Le Mans, Enduro Racer and Chase HQ than the C64, which did my nut in as a C64 owner at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 In regards to NES vs 7800, in my view the flicker the NES has kills a lot of things at times as that is often coupled with slowdown. Of course it would be awesome if Toki7800 was in 320B mode for that nice resolution but I will take flickerless and solid framerate over the opposite choice at a higher rez. But that's just me (now and in the early 90s) And Willard, thanks for the info on the other unannounced thing. With the new LCD replacements for the Lynx out there, my interest is kicking back up for that anyways. Either way, its still a good time to be an Atarian. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 That 1993 date still amazes me, i mean when i look at games like Chronicles of Cute which were originally in development for the 7800, but appeared on the ST instead, re-named as Chronicles Of Omega, which i think was released on the ARC Label on the ST in 1990, as ST clearly seen as the Atari Format to support from UK software houses, just boggles the mind just what market Atari was after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 No, I found your comparison charts and images very useful! Good point on getting a lot from a little, although the consumer wouldn't have cared back then. You wonder now how many more titles were being worked on for the 7800, and have vanished into the ether? Ha ha. I'd have to consider the ZX Speccy a video game console first! Putrid! But you yourself mentioned only the C64 version looking worse than the 7800 version; the C64 is by all means as little a game console as the Speccy. They're both home computers. So this makes 7800 the third worst looking port. Well there was another rumoured/lost 8 Bit Cart.version for the Amstrad GX400 (a console)/CPC+, to be published by Ocean.A screen appeared in Amstrad action, but is thought to be a mock-up (i've never owned an Amstrad so details are vague). I HATE to quote Retro Gamer, but I have to. :/ In an article on lost CPC games, Dave Locker who was set to code the Speccy and CPC and GX4000 conversions did find a few Atari ST format floppy disks looking for the Speccy version, uncovering data and graphics for GX4000 Toki. According to him, that version was abandoned due to memory limitations. Ocean was only willing to produce small carts, and looking at the Toki sprite he found they were using pretty arcade close graphics. The end of it was that with the memory they used for the first level was what they would have had for the entire game. There is still hope he finds the playable level at some point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimefighter Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 All righty, we'll soon be seeing a new page on Atariprotos shortly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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