Papa Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think a "what if" scenario for a commercially successful TurboGrafx-16 is much more realistic. First change.. Bring over the Japanese art on the cards! Those cards were DRAB!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) 1. I liked the cartridge port being open and accessible. It would have been much more than a few pennies to implement as well and not worth it. 2. As stated earlier, the Lynx was basically already canned but they could have definitely done something to keep it in the loop and do some cool things with it since it was already developed and done. 3. There's not such thing as relatively cheap magazine ads. To be seen you need to be full-page and you're talking $60,000 - $100,000+ a pop. 4. They didn't need to cut areas for proper game development they just needed to manage it differently. 5. When you're sitting on a pile of Jaguars, you have got to move inventory because if the hardware doesn't sell, guess who's not making games for it? (hint: no one) 6. See 5. There were just a ton of missed opportunites all-around. While many argue the Jaguar VR wouldn't have done well, it certainly would have been a huge step-up in comparison from what the Virtual Boy offered. That thing wasn't even Virtual Reality, they just milked the VR name and it's clear why it failed - seeing red again. Even so, they couldn't even complete or accomplish the bigger titles that could have put them into some serious light like Black Ice/White Noise. I'm really surprised they didn't at least adopt/transition the Jag VR hardware over into a commercial platform with the upgraded internals and make a much cheaper Virtuality arcade unit somehow instead of letting it go completely to waste. Would have been a great joint venture for Atari/Virtuality at the time to sell VR platforms for under $10k instead of the original $100k they were going for originally. Edited March 6, 2015 by Clint Thompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I heard that the Tomb Raider that was in development supported the VR hardware. That would've made the Jag the best video game system of the era, as we all know. It probably would've had the longevity of the Atari 2600 or NES. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I heard that the Tomb Raider that was in development supported the VR hardware. That would've made the Jag the best video game system of the era, as we all know. It probably would've had the longevity of the Atari 2600 or NES. Feel like they would have rejected this idea once realizing people would be distracted by looking down at their own rack constantly instead of actually playing the game lol 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 :-) Luck ? Even the Irish are'nt blessed with my own type of that.... Facebook? Not an Option now, nor will it ever be, there's a line i won't cross just to try and discover what happened to...and Facebook is it. Now, when you say an interview could be 'kinda interesting', i'm kinda getting vibe there's some....site history here? and potential can of worms in danger of being opened? Nice backout. So much for unbiased hard hitting journalism. But I'm sure many people here are relieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyemsougly Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 5. When you're sitting on a pile of Jaguars, you have got to move inventory because if the hardware doesn't sell, guess who's not making games for it? (hint: no one) 6. See 5. Like I said earlier, I am now convinced that there was no way the Jaguar could have succeeded but I still don't see the games as a big deal if Atari actually was capable of making good first party games. The Jaguar's library could have consisted mainly of games made by Atari's game division and indy games that Atari published, like Super Burnout. Iron Soldier was probably the coolest game on any home console when it came out and it was produced by some no name company. If you aren't losing money on your console sales, I don't see why you need tremendous third party support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Once can tell by the title alone that this thread is pointless. Why am I commenting, then? Because I can. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Yes, but in this thread you don't have to be very uptight "sober", but try out the hat of a retro-visionary =)Ofc it's all waaay out on thin ice, but it's kinda fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Nice backout. So much for unbiased hard hitting journalism. But I'm sure many people here are relieved. If you want Hard hitting Journalism you should ask your forum buddy, Liard - he's a journo who needs a hard hitting [Edit] Sorry, my mistake, I got Journo and Germ mixed up. Edited March 7, 2015 by CyranoJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Ha! Good juan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 @Jagchris:Unbiased i am, that's why i go after coders on Saturn, PS1, PC, ST, Lynx, MD, SNES, 3DO, A3000, C64, Oric etc etc.There's not a 'prefered format', i look into UK Press claims across ALL systems, hence A8 Elite to DC Messiah, if it's been quoted as in development, i want to know IF this was true and what became of it. Think i've enough interviews done on behalf of enough sites etc to cover the bases on this aspect, i mean fact they appear on:3DO Forum (Jaguar Section), a Sega Master System forum, a C64 GTW and general GTW sites X2, in Classic Console Magazine, Pro-Atari, ST Gamer would kinda suggest i'm not biased towards any system...... Hard Hitting? pfff, pass.People are free to believe what they want to believe regarding what was coming to what...i'm proud to have done what i've done, reached those others from mainstream press have 'overlooked', been thanked for personal aspects of my questions by people i've interviewed and a lot of sites/communities have benifited from my findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (Cont).I pass my findings onto all sites i feel could use the info:GTW/AA/RG/Unseen64/G.O.G/TR Forums/Core Design Site/AVP Galaxly/Slipstream etc etc..you name name it, if they can use it, they are welcome to it. I don't even recieve digital or physical magazines i supply material for in cases like Classic Console or Pro-Atari, i'm not hwaking my warez on YouTube or Facebook or working for money here and i've NEVER classed myself as a Jurnolist, so no idea where this 'hard hitting jurnolism' claim sprang from, i'm not freelancing for the Telegraph or Washington Post etc here. I've also never altered any of the answers i've recieved in any form, let alone to suit a personal viewpoint, so no sales figures tampered with, no part quoutes from magazines etc.Good case in point Chris Shrig's interview in this months Classic Console Mag:Chris refers to Xbox 360 version of things like FSW, he means of course the Classic Xbox version, i COULD of corrected it, but in my eyes, it'd be tampering.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (Cont) and that's not a road i plan to set foot on, in any form ta. You say nice backout, well i'll explain reasons yet again, not that i feel i need to, just that i'm more than happy to explain my reasoning as, after all it's my time :-) As i said, i've never personally played Battlesphere, so that alone makes it nigh on impossible to conduct an interview from personal exp.all i'd be going on is other peoples comments/views on it... Scotts quote from that RG Article, i found said issue, read through it last night. Right, for starters as i did'nt write article, i've NO idea if it was a full or part quote from interview given, but reading the full quote as it appeared in the magazine all i can take away is that he felt Jaguar offered him more computional firepower than anything else of that era, inc the Playstation and he found it easier to code for than the Saturn (no idea of his Saturn coding exp, but many struggled with the Saturn hardware), he noted what he, personally liked about the Jaguar hardware.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (Cont) multiple CPU's and what it allowed him to do, but he also made clear the advantages the Playstation had..hardware acceleration (where as on Jaguar you had to do everything yourself) and Sonys resources to really market and support it.So it's not a 'biased' comment... So, unless people expect likes of myself to seek out people who's games they've never played (and Battlesphere is the only game of his i'm aware of), to put questions to them about it, plus quotes in articles that read fine to them at the time and indeed now as they are just personal views, knowing full well the chaos it'd cause, when old wounds are best left to heal over, not fester away...i'm out. :-) Besides, you did'nt answer question i put:Has he worked on any Lost Games? If so, i'd happily interview him about that or any other subject that generates healthy discussion, i'm just not going after someone for sake of it. I'm not under contract to produce X amount of articles per month, have enough interviews out, yet to come back in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 @Eyemsougly:For myself, i'd much have prefered Atari poured resources into seeing that promising projects like Freelancer, Dact.Joust, Black Ice, Legions Of The Undead etc got finished and released, rather than going after 3rd party support in cases like Fever Pitch, just because they did'nt have the Fifa deal...i also don't think trying to mimic the bit hits of the day, via clones was a wise move... Rebellion were not the people to attempt a Virtua Racing clone (but in fairness the Time Warner team screwed up the Saturn ver.of V.Racing), anymore than H.M.S or Beyond Games were to attempt to copy SF2/MK and trying to do a texture-mapped VF on Jaguar, just madness, but that was Atari desperate to vcompete with what 3DO, PS1 and Saturn were offering, rather than admit they could'nt match them and instead pour resources into only on Jaguar type projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 @JagChris:Honest question here: You've interviewed/put Jaguar related questions to a good few people in your time, thinking of DML, Mike Fulton, Adisak, Tursi, SebRMV, Cyril C, sure there are others..and they've made for bloody good reading. Have you ever thought of approaching the Battlesphere coder in question for an interview for your site, over the years?...... Or is he not a 'person of interest'? I'm only asking as it still baffles me somewhat in terms of who appears to be approached for Jaguar related articles, be they online or in magazines and who's over looked and why... Dave Taylor i went after as i'd personally never seen interviewed it was always Carmac when it came to Jaguar and I.D. I just wonder if sites/publications only want the better known people, or it's more a case of something along lines of the Lobotomy interview i did on behalf of Unseen 64-tyou try a number of sources (in this case 3) and go with who ever replies/is avaiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) @JagChris:Honest question here: You've interviewed/put Jaguar related questions to a good few people in your time, thinking of DML, Mike Fulton, Adisak, Tursi, SebRMV, Cyril C, sure there are others..and they've made for bloody good reading. Have you ever thought of approaching the Battlesphere coder in question for an interview for your site, over the years?...... Or is he not a 'person of interest'? I'm only asking as it still baffles me somewhat in terms of who appears to be approached for Jaguar related articles, be they online or in magazines and who's over looked and why... Dave Taylor i went after as i'd personally never seen interviewed it was always Carmac when it came to Jaguar and I.D. I just wonder if sites/publications only want the better known people, or it's more a case of something along lines of the Lobotomy interview i did on behalf of Unseen 64-tyou try a number of sources (in this case 3) and go with who ever replies/is avaiable. Dave Taylor is rather interesting. The only id credit I find for him in the games I have in print, whether as a scrolling credit marquee in game or printed manual is I think Quake on the Saturn. And that's as a 'special thanks' by the guys who did the Saturn version. But I will have to look again. As for Legrand(Oppressor) being interviewed. He has already been interviewed. A couple times. The issue coming up is what he said in an interview is being disputed. And that's okay but you're taking the word of other people over his without any reservations about it. When you compare technical achievements of LeGrand to those naysaying what he said there's a HUGE gap. When you consider that it comes off as having an agenda. Also saying Scatologics views on what they have already achieved on the Jaguar as 'optimistic' also comes off as odd. That's like someone telling you they are 5' 8". And someone else saying that's rather optimistic. And then they're like 'No I'm really 5'8"'. The Jaglink connection bug that Scatologic found a workaround for from the evidence seems to be impressive. The DSP that has the bug appears to retain full functionality with this workaround. It seems to be very concisely and precisely tailored to the Jaguars DSP bug making it as though the problem no longer exists. From the evidence the Jaguar is still able to play music/sound plus link up and beyond that seems to run general code that helps with game computations with this workaround in place. Hence the multiple cpu statement earlier by Oppressor. The Jaglink bug workaround linked to earlier in this thread, how good is it? A couple years ago when it was being discussed someone mentioned it was a 'general generic modern day workaround' for this kind of problem. I'm not sure that's verbatim but very close. Does it transfer data as well as the Scato workaround? How much functionality does the DSP retain in comparison? No one has slapped this code into the Doom source and fixed the networking errors that I know of. That would be interesting to see. Edited March 7, 2015 by JagChris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I've said this before, but other than interviewing on behalf of ST Gamer, reason i started going after people in my 'early days' was i'd never seen them appear in interviews in the very magazines i was paying good money for:Edge, Gamestm, Retro Gamer etc had 'over-looked' them, then you had the more familar faces, who despite being interviewed numerous times, were never asked about aspects of their work i was interested in.The people asking the questions seemed to stick to the by now very familar topics, which as a long term reader, simply did'nt make for 'fresh' reading. Personally only seen the 1 Legrand interview and that's in said RG article-i would honestly like to see 'more' as he talks of Jaguar being easier to code for than Saturn, but there's no mention of what he's basing this on, nor what he's attempted on Saturn (a 2D game/3D game, what genre etc) so as a reader, i'm left guessing as to just what point of reference he's using... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 But then without seeing 'full' interview, i've no idea just which questions he was asked.With ST Gamer Vol 2 interviews (x4), i carried out questions covering as many topics as i could as knew it'd be the one chance i had to 'speak' to the people in question, forwarded all 4 to Greyfox, he just published/will be publishing the ST related Q+A, think plans for the Vol 2 interviews X3 is to offer the uncut interviews as bonus material, but like all things, i leave that in Greys capable hands, it's HIS magazine :-) Back to Legrand... As i've already said, having never played Battlesphere, let alone bought it or a Jag CD, in this, here and now instance, all i have to go on, is informed opions, ok they are of other people, but short of watching a YouTube video, which i personally do feel makes for that valid a research tool, it's all i'd have to conduct any interview based on... If i ever get to play said game for any period of time, i'll be in a much better position to wiegh up his comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) When you compare technical achievements of LeGrand to those naysaying what he said there's a HUGE gap. When you consider that it comes off as having an agenda. JagChris: Tech Guru. JagChris: Jaguar Pundit. JagChris: No Agenda? JagChris: h y p e r l o l t r a i n After the tirade of anti-AA foaming the great Doctor LeGrande went out of his way to fertilise twitter with recently, I say the ossom oppressor's name deserves never to appear in these pages again... what an absolute flaming, arrogant and ignorant fool he makes of himself. Nobody here can hold a candle to the guy. Perhaps someone should have proffered a blowtorch by now as a possible alternative. The Jaglink connection bug that Scatologic found a workaround for from the evidence seems to be impressive. The DSP that has the bug appears to retain full functionality with this workaround. It seems to be very concisely and precisely tailored to the Jaguars DSP bug making it as though the problem no longer exists. From the evidence the Jaguar is still able to play music/sound plus link up and beyond that seems to run general code that helps with game computations with this workaround in place. Hence the multiple cpu statement earlier by Oppressor. An impressive use of the dual-layer flux capacitor and a commendable workaround for the hyperwaffle flabbergard bug in the cuntywoofer. It seems to be acutely pinpointed to the upper nufflebanks of the Digihole Super Pebble making it as though the problem no longer exists. From the evidence the music plays and the links are up when the general codes are all making computations when this workabout is finely situated, I can't see how anyone might disagree that swinging from a scatosack isn't the best thing you can spend a Saturday afternoon occupied with. Edited March 7, 2015 by sh3-rg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 He's saying the A.I on offer is better than PS1 era games, that's a bold claim as i loved things like Darklight Conflict, 1st 2 Colony Wars games on PS1 (not so keen on Red Sun) and have previousily interviewed one of the Colony Wars team, so it'd be an interesting game to approach, having pre-set expectations as it were based on his interview quotes... I personally don't see the Scatlogic/Optimistic claim as 'odd', to me it's like them saying as you put it it, i'm 5 Foot 8 Inches, i'm like ok..i'll take your word, never met you, met them (ie play game) and then i'm like Ahhh you mean 5 Foot 8 Inches with shoes on...right. The multiple CPU quote from him detailed what he could do with A.I and Physics, so it'd be interesting to hear what else it allowed him to do, but again, any claims would have to be backed up with proof his code was 'out performing' PS1, Saturn, PS2 and G.C games of a similar nature as he says he never felt out gunned until the Xbox arrived... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Any 'interviews' i do are from a 'pure' gamesplayer viewpoint, i've never coded, but i know decent A.I in games and what's belivable, hence me holding a candle still for Rebellions PC AVP Routines on Windows'95 version of the game and slagging their most recent PS3/360/PC game, ditto for moaning when PS3 Alien Iso.falls back on scripted A.I which ruins the atmosphere. The only agenda's i have in my 'interviews' are getting the information, unaltered to sites which could benifit from it, getting alt.viewpoints-so i've been trying to find those who liked working on the Saturn of late to combat the Saturn was rubbish stuff i still read on YouTube etc and most of all, finding out what claims in the press were basically 'False' and chances of putting to bed Lost Game claims on all formats..i'm still no wiser to what other than Battlesphere Legrand might have worked on.Lost or released. If it's just 1 game, personally don't see enough scope for an interview.Found this with 3DO coders, find them..just 1 3DO game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 :-) And by not using Twitter or Facebook, i avoid so much 'flannel'. I've been given...'advice' from people over the past few months of who to...be careful of, if i was thinking of interviewing and why....and taken that advice onboard as it'd just of created drama for sake of drama and would'nt of made for a pleasant interviewing exp.let alone read for general public. If any person wants to proclaim themselves as a coding or hardware design GOD...plenty of others that can interview them, it's simply not my bag... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 In my more...recent interviews, i have started asking people if they were miss-quoted in the Press, think looking at Jez San's recent RG interview and the comments TMR made about Ste Pickford changing his story, IF i do future interviews, i might expand the topic into realms of...is there anything you've said in previous interviews that in hindsight, you'd now word differently and why?.Also, as the years go by does it make it a lot harder to answer questions on games you might/might not have worked on 20+ years ago, with absolute clarity? and do you perhaps wish someone had asked them 10 or 15 years ago?. I've passed questions relating to A8 games etc onto a new contact to ask on my behalf this afternoon, but i'm honestly expecting a..it's been too long to remember..type answer back on 1 or more at best. Anywho back on subject of what could of been different with Atari's handling of the Jaguar.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 JagChris: Tech Guru. JagChris: Jaguar Pundit. JagChris: No Agenda? JagChris: h y p e r l o l t r a i n After the tirade of anti-AA foaming the great Doctor LeGrande went out of his way to fertilise twitter with recently, I say the ossom oppressor's name deserves never to appear in these pages again... what an absolute flaming, arrogant and ignorant fool he makes of himself. Nobody here can hold a candle to the guy. Perhaps someone should have proffered a blowtorch by now as a possible alternative. An impressive use of the dual-layer flux capacitor and a commendable workaround for the hyperwaffle flabbergard bug in the cuntywoofer. It seems to be acutely pinpointed to the upper nufflebanks of the Digihole Super Pebble making it as though the problem no longer exists. From the evidence the music plays and the links are up when the general codes are all making computations when this workabout is finely situated, I can't see how anyone might disagree that swinging from a scatosack isn't the best thing you can spend a Saturday afternoon occupied with. OMG you are so amazing! How do you do it with your wordplay magicksessessss and you're masterful use of meme's and double whoopfer flubbing word flippin use of negative emotional stimuli rather than logic points is incredible!! You are my hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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