Double Dragon: Master System or NES?

[+jeremiahjt]

For me it goes something like this: Master System>7800>>>2600>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NES.

 

I remember when my step-brother got this game for the NES in '89 or so. I had never played the NES version before so when we first popped it in we each got a controller ready to wreck shop together. Of course that did not happen. I spent about 5 minutes trying each the modes multiple times trying to get to the game I played in the arcade and even the one I played on my 2600. I thought maybe two player story mode was hidden so I went to the manual. I eventually came to the realization this was Alternating Double Dragon and we gave it a try, but neither of us found the game to be any fun. Maybe if we did not know anything about the game going in we could of had fun, but as it is we both hated the NES version of Double Dragon.

[Rhomaios]

I'd go for the NES version simply for the chiptunes. What a great soundtrack. In reality, neither are my cup of tea. It might have blown the beatemup genre wide open, but it was by far not even close to being the best one out there. It had been trounced in a way that nearly every genre-breaking game has not, i.e. it's now irrelevant, imo.

[Shinju]

SMS for the arcade experence with the FM audio support on the Retron5 or a modified NTSC-U SMS.

 

 

NES Double Dragon was decent, it tried to give an RPG element to a beat em up.

 

7800 Double Dragon was a very watered down port of the game, while it was the weaker of the 3 8-bit it still followed the Arcade and was fun to play, I am sure if it had POKEY SFX/BGM it would have faired better.

[Rick Dangerous]

NES version all the way. It's a joke that the SMS version is winning. If you wan't 2p so bad play DDII. I bet if you put the horrid 7800 version the poll it'd be in first place right now. General opinions seems to go "against the grain" here on AA, which I mostly like

[+FujiSkunk]

Serious question: You think it's a joke that people might have a different opinion than you?

[BillyHW]

I played all the versions, Arcade, SMS and NES a great deal back in the day, and finished them all.

 

The NES version should be called "Dragon".

 

I was really disappointed that it wasn't 2-player. (And then Nintendo did it to me again with SNES Final Fight.) If it ain't 2-player it's not really Double Dragon. That being said, it is an excellent 8-bit game in its own right. It's the best 1-player DD that they could have come up with.

 

The SMS version was good times. It was 2-player and much closer to the arcade. So that wins it for me. It was Double Dragon brought home. Too bad we never got the better Master System with the FM sound chip.

 

Anyone know how it was that Sega was able to get a version when back at that time NES had all the exclusives locked up, nefariously or otherwise?

[R.O.T.S]

I prefer the colour palette and graphics on the Master System but the Nes version seems to play a lot better which makes the difference for me so I grudgingly vote NES

[Austin]

Serious question: You think it's a joke that people might have a different opinion than you?

 

When said "opinion" is based more around nostalgic reminiscing and less about recent objective observation and experience, then yes, I do take it as a joke.

[Torr]

 

When said "opinion" is based more around nostalgic reminiscing and less about recent objective observation and experience, then yes, I do take it as a joke.

 

It must be a conspiracy against you then dude, cause now it's further in the lead.

We all just love getting your goat on some internet poll rather than give an honest answer.

[+GoldenWheels]

Well seeing so many people recommend the SMS version made me think I should go back and check it out again--it had been 20 years or so. And I never played it with another player, so i picked it up (emulation doesn't count lol) and I dragged my 7 year old son in on the action (never requires much dragging to get him to play video games).

 

So.......yeah. Turns out my memory was far nicer to the SMS version than reality dictates. The music out and out stinks, the graphics and animation are worse than the nes version, and the hit detection stinks. And about two minutes in we had to make an agreement to each patrol one side of the screen, because when we overlapped with any amount of enemies on the screen, there was so much flicker it was simply impossible to tell wtf was going on. I mean...damn there is a lot of flicker in this game. WOW.

 

So I get the multiplayer nostalgia for the SMS version, but man....in the case of DD1 I'd rather takes turns playing a single player good game (NES) than play a poor game simultaneously (SMS).

 

Instead of either of those options, we played DDII until the conveyor belt jump. He couldn't handle that yet, lol.

[+thegoldenband]

^If I could like that post a dozen times, I would. Especially this part:

 

in the case of DD1 I'd rather takes turns playing a single player good game (NES) than play a poor game simultaneously (SMS).

 

It'd be interesting to see how many defenders of the SMS port were SMS owners back in the day. As a CoCo owner I know how tempting it is to defend your "home" platform against a more successful alternative, but in this case I honestly don't understand anyone picking the SMS version. I'd rather not play Double Dragon at all than play the SMS port, in much the same way that I'd rather go without meat than eat a can of spam.

[BydoEmpire]

I love the Master System and had a ton of games for it... but Double Dragon was one I just never owned. I did, however, really enjoy it on the NES. I don't want to vote not having played both but the NES game was a lot of fun.

[+GoldenWheels]

^If I could like that post a dozen times, I would. Especially this part:

 

 

It'd be interesting to see how many defenders of the SMS port were SMS owners back in the day. As a CoCo owner I know how tempting it is to defend your "home" platform against a more successful alternative, but in this case I honestly don't understand anyone picking the SMS version. I'd rather not play Double Dragon at all than play the SMS port, in much the same way that I'd rather go without meat than eat a can of spam.

 

Being on an Atari website I think we all have that mentality to some degree.

[+GoldenWheels]

I love the Master System and had a ton of games for it... but Double Dragon was one I just never owned. I did, however, really enjoy it on the NES. I don't want to vote not having played both but the NES game was a lot of fun.

 

I really like mine--i kind of hate collecting for it though. I got started with a few loose lots of games (which I prefer, the cases are very nice and all but I need the space) and then realized I had just gotten lucky on the first few lots...finding loose SMS carts (priced as loose, that is, with some discount as to buying teh same game with the case) is kind of hard.

 

I traded my system in once I got the new base converter cart thing at stoneage gamer, and now I wish I hadn't. I'll honestly never miss the card games or the 3d but I just wish I had that damn thing still. It was cool in a way a pass through cart just ain't.

[+FujiSkunk]

Actually if we're going by what system we owned back in the day, I should count the Atari 7800 version as my favorite.

 

I get the issues mentioned about the Sega port. Yes, the flicker can get really bad. Yes, there is some questionable hit detection, though nothing I ever thought was "unfair". It may be comical to watch sometimes, but to me it still feels consistent and fair. Yes, the music doesn't have the range of the NES version, though I still think it does just fine. To me, the issues with the NES version are worse. It isn't Double Dragon if you can't "double" up. That's not a big issue for some, but to me it defeats a major reason why the original was as unique and fun as it was. Add to that the fact you have to "learn" your fighting moves as you go, and the massive liberties taken with some of the level designs, and in the end you don't have Double Dragon. You have a pretty decent side-scrolling fighter, but it's not Double Dragon. The SMS version, for all its faults, succeeds at being Double Dragon, and honestly those faults aren't nearly the showstoppers some people make them out to be. My humble opinion, of course.

[+GoldenWheels]

I think that is very fair Fuji. I have literally no ties or loyalty to the arcade game so how the home versions line up with it is not something I factor in.

 

It's an interesting double edged sword I guess, comparing it to the arcade....Part of me thinks, well, back then a lot of arcade conversions required major graphical and gameplay sacrifices, so honestly at the time I NEVER held the home game up to the arcade standard--It was largely futile and ultimately bound to disappoint you. OTOH, using that same logic, any game that WAS close to the arcade version maybe would have received major points from me at the time if I had played it then, because it would have been noteworthy to BE anywhere close to the arcade version.

 

Of all my beefs with the SMS version, hit detection was the biggest. I never felt connected to the action or as in control like with the NES version (and I was using a Genesis pad, not the crummy SMS one). Maybe more time would have helped me find the "range" but then the flicker didn't help me do that either.

 

I am surprised so many people dislike learning the moves. I get that it's not like the arcade but frankly I love the feel of leveling up in a fighter, especially THEN, it felt new. Besides, we all know how to job up points on the first levels, even if you don't think you should have to.

[+jeremiahjt]

I find it funny how somebody always accuses the people of the opposite opinion in "which game is better" discussions of letting nostalgia color their opinion. I guess some people are just so sure their opinion is the "correct" one that it is simply impossible for them to believe someone could disagree with them and be objective. I grew up with a 7800 and an NES. I never played a Master System until years later and I first played SMS Double Dragon a good 15 years after first playing the NES version. I guess it is just some really weird form of nostalgia making me pick the SMS version. Maybe someday I will get over this nostalgia and realize the NES version is the best around.

 

Thinking about it, it seems like a lot of the times the "nostalgia" accusation is thrown out is when people say a non-Nintendo game is better than a Nintendo game. It is kind of like the only way Nintendo fans believe someone could pick any game over a Nintendo game is if the person is just being subjective because of some childhood bias.

[Torr]

I know. This is a poll based on opinion. A lot people don't seem to understand the definition of 'opinion'.

That is, if one were say their opinion is that they prefer a bowl of Rice Krispies to a fresh lobster or a sirloin steak, you might disagree, but can't say they are 'wrong'. It's their opinion. There is no right or wrong answer. The only real answer is their honest opinion.

If you want to define which is the overall better quality food, then they are many factors that each must be measured against; such as health/nutritional information, shelf/storage life, availability, cost per volume, etc. and you COULD come to a scientifically deduced answer as to which is a 'better' source of human fuel. However, amongst the things you would NOT be able to measure is TASTE. Everybody has different tastes. Some people like spicy, some love spicy, some hate spicy, some are indifferent to spicy, and you could replace the word spicy with any quality such as salty, sweet, etc.

Stating your opinion on whether you like one game over another is like stating whether you like Da Vinci's Last Supper over his Mona Lisa. There is no right or wrong answer. Some people prefer one painting, others prefer the other, some don't give a damn for either one.

It amazes me how childish some adults can start to behave when they find out someone has a different opinion than them.

Thinking about it, it seems like a lot of the times the "nostalgia" accusation is thrown out is when people say a non-Nintendo game is better than a Nintendo game. It is kind of like the only way Nintendo fans believe someone could pick any game over a Nintendo game is if the person is just being subjective because of some childhood bias.

 

The irony is, often when people claim the NES had 'the best' games, it is their own nostalgia clouding their judgement over making a fair comparison.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Torr

[+thegoldenband]

I'm certainly well aware that Nintendo fans can be self-important nostalgia fanboys. Witness some of the nonsense that goes on whenever SNES vs. Genesis comes up to get a hefty dose of that. But it's also true that I've frequently seen Master System fans -- especially American SMS fans -- strongly recommend games with major, unforgivable flaws and cheap-looking presentation that'd never pass muster on a more successful console.

 

Again, I sympathize, since as a CoCo owner there was a lot of temptation to cheerlead some pretty low-quality games. But you don't even have to bring the NES into it; just compare the SMS American library to its European and Brazilian library. Lots of Euro games are fully polished efforts that show off what the console could do, and consequently make much of the US library look pretty weak by comparison.

 

(If you're wondering what US games I'm thinking of: ESWAT, Vigilante, and Kung Fu Kid come to mind as poor efforts. OTOH I enjoyed Rambo II, and even Alien Syndrome despite its flaws.)

 

Anyway, when I say that I don't understand what folks see in the SMS version of Double Dragon, I mean that in the most literal sense. I'm not calling anyone stupid for liking what they like; I just literally don't understand why they'd like it -- what they would get out of playing it.

 

If I play a modern FPS (for example), I may not like it, but I more or less understand why other people do. But when I play SMS Double Dragon, the technical flaws and gameplay issues are so major that I just don't see what there is to enjoy. Sure, it's a more cosmetically faithful port in some ways, but it's basically set up to force you to use tedious exploit patterns to make progress, which in turn makes the game easy but joyless. That's an issue in all versions of DD, but to me it's severe enough in the SMS port that I can't see it as a fun 2P romp -- since if you wail away in the game, you get flattened.

 

When I got my copy of SMS Double Dragon, I beat the game in under 90 minutes (on real hardware), I didn't have to play particularly well to do so, and I didn't have fun doing it. When I played it with my wife on a different occasion, neither of us enjoyed it -- whereas when we played through the arcade version of Double Dragon recently, that was fun.

 

BTW the poll doesn't specify whether the issue is "Which game do you like more?" or "Which game is better?" The first question is 100% a matter of opinion, but "better" is a more complex issue that isn't 100% subjective by any means, because there are objective traits that can be used to evaluate a game up to a point. If a game responds inconsistently to controller input because of a bug or lazy programming, it's not really a matter of opinion whether that constitutes a flaw.

[AtariORdead]

Funny thing is that I am NES all the way and love the NES version, but my cousin had a master system and we used to play 2 player double dragon all the time so yes I choose the MS version.

 

Is it better, probably not technically, but what it boils down to is one simple fact. I had more fun on the MS version growing up.

 

People blaming it on Nostalgia are just angry someone disagrees with them, simple fact is that most of us have learnt to prefer certain things due to personal experiences.

[+GoldenWheels]

Funny thing is that I am NES all the way and love the NES version, but my cousin had a master system and we used to play 2 player double dragon all the time so yes I choose the MS version.

 

Is it better, probably not technically, but what it boils down to is one simple fact. I had more fun on the MS version growing up.

 

People blaming it on Nostalgia are just angry someone disagrees with them, simple fact is that most of us have learnt to prefer certain things due to personal experiences.

But the underlined is like a textbook example of nostalgia.

nos·tal·gia

näˈstaljə,nəˈstaljə/

noun

noun: nostalgia; plural noun: nostalgias

a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.

Didn't mean to be "definition guy", no one likes that guy, but since things like "opinion" are getting defined and elucidated on, why not.

When you by your own words define your reasoning by nostalgia, it's not very fair to accuse people of being "just angry someone disagrees with them" when they point it out. I'd point out I didn't infer any insult by using the word, and it seems some took insult, for whatever reason. That was not my intention, so I am sorry if anyone took it that way. I just wanted to talk about one of my favorite games.

[+GoldenWheels]

 

It amazes me how childish some adults can start to behave when they find out someone has a different opinion than them.

 

 

 

I agree.

[AtariORdead]

 

But the underlined is like a textbook example of nostalgia.

nos·tal·gia

näˈstaljə,nəˈstaljə/

noun

noun: nostalgia; plural noun: nostalgias

a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.

Didn't mean to be "definition guy", no one likes that guy, but since things like "opinion" are getting defined and elucidated on, why not.

When you by your own words define your reasoning by nostalgia, it's not very fair to accuse people of being "just angry someone disagrees with them" when they point it out. I'd point out I didn't infer any insult by using the word, and it seems some took insult, for whatever reason. That was not my intention, so I am sorry if anyone took it that way. I just wanted to talk about one of my favorite games.

 

I was not having a go at you, sorry if you took it that way. It was more someone saying that choosing DD on MS because of some misplaced nostalgia is a joke.

[+GoldenWheels]

I was not having a go at you, sorry if you took it that way. It was more someone saying that choosing DD on MS because of some misplaced nostalgia is a joke.

Thanks Atari, I certainly didn't mean to insult anyone and was worried I had. I agree that calling someone's opinion a joke is simply not necessary, no matter how much one disagrees.

[Austin]

People blaming it on Nostalgia are just angry someone disagrees with them

 

I'll counter that with the idea that some people out there also enjoy having intelligent conversation about old games, not ones based in memory from decades ago.

 

Simple fact is that most of us have learnt to prefer certain things due to personal experiences.

 

All opinion and preference is shaped by personal experience, regardless of whether something is truly technically good or bad, I don't think anyone can argue that. It's the "my personal experience from 25 years ago bars me from thinking rationally" part that bugs me.

 

I'm for backing up opinions with something a little more concrete and modern. For me, recent experience holds greater weight than experience from decades ago. FujiSkunk's response to GoldenWheels is the most rational I've seen from the SMS crowd in this thread and that's the kind of response I can respect. He acknowledges the flaws, but then states why he still prefers it. We will obviously agree to disagree, but at least I understand where he's really coming from in regards to his point of view on the subject. I can take his opinion seriously, and that's what I want.