13matt Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 We seem to have seen a few old favourites updated in recent years: Pacman Donkey Kong Mario Bros Jet Set Willy Missle Command What other titles do you think might benefit from some TLC? I would like to see Star Raiders recieve a little redux. Given that the original game fits in about 8K there's more than room for a few embelishments. Title screen, music, stereo sound effects? Multi coloured enemies pehaps..... Whatever, I am eternally greatful to all those developers under taking this work for the added enjoyment they are bringing to everyone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I believe Rob from the Player-Missile podcast is trying to fix the slowdown in Star Raiders from the debris left behind by destroyed ships. I always thought that you should have planets and solar systems in Star Raiders, but they did that in Star Raiders II. Then again, Star Raiders II wasn't originally intended to be a Star Raiders sequel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I believe Rob from the Player-Missile podcast is trying to fix the slowdown in Star Raiders from the debris left behind by destroyed ships. There's already been a version to fix that -- although it simply lowers the amount of debris, rather than speeding up the code to display it. It also changes some of the colors (i.e.: moons/asteroids are yellow). Star Raiders (hack).xex I always thought that you should have planets and solar systems in Star Raiders, but they did that in Star Raiders II. Then again, Star Raiders II wasn't originally intended to be a Star Raiders sequel. Star Raiders II is just that, a sequel to Star Raiders only in name, which is to say it's no sequel at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I always thought that Ninja Commando could do with a bit of variety adding to it. It has good graphics for the time and the music is astounding, but the gameplay is just a little generic all the way through. Maybe if they could have some characters doing some other things other than walking or shooting, that might add to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) ClausB did a "Star Raiders HD" mod by redoing the graphics in Mode E. Unknown if he finished or did a wide release. IMO Star Raiders would benefit greatly by optimising some of the routines which experience slowdown. Best method would be to reverse-engineer the program to a decent extent, then use a 16K Romspace to enhance the game. It's also one of those that will work on 8K Ram which means plenty of free workspace, though in the modern day there's little reason not to just assume there's 32K or more available to use. Edited March 13, 2015 by Rybags 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Quite torn on this idea - I'd rather see new material than changes to old games. Games are a reflection of their time, to add coloured sprites to Star Raiders, would in my option, be sacrilege - kinda like painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa - leave the original art alone. Now porting titles that never made it to the 8bit is cool, like Elite (hint hint) - never before released old titles are always exciting (coulda, shoulda, woulda) or better still developing a stinking new Star Raiders III - now those would be great ideas! sTeVE Edited March 13, 2015 by Jetboot Jack 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorsten Günther Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I beg to differ. There are titles that were improved back in the 1980s like the Temple of Apshai Trilogy and benefitted a lot from it. I did never consider the slowdon in Star Raides to be a problem though (just as I don't consider the bullet time scenes in The Matrix to be one), instead, I would prefer the following titles to be improved: Crush, Crumble and Chomp (complete overhaul) Racing Destruction Set (fix the awful scrolling) Pitstop II (should look and feel like the C64 version) Arkanoid (fix the ball and brighten up the colours) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 But why - better versions already exist of all those titles, just not on the A8 What is the advantage of a better version of game we've already played? What is interesting about "Pitstop II (should look and feel like the C64 version)" - just play the C64 version! Take Arkanoid - don't fix the version we have, it's what it is - sadly. Instead do an all new Arkanoid II that is as good as it could be on the A8 - that way we get the best software and a new interesting experience... Just my 10c of course! sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) I beg to differ. There are titles that were improved back in the 1980s like the Temple of Apshai Trilogy and benefitted a lot from it. I agree. I've been playing this quite a bit recently, and it's a commendable job. The music, character control, graphics, are all well done. Nothing gets lost by doing an update. If one wants to play the original, it's still there to enjoy (or despise/hate/abhor, as the case may be). I'll agree with what one reviewer said though, that the "fatigue" factor is now useless, since it declines so slowly. I guess that's one of the important parts of doing updates, make sure that you don't mess with something that's already fine. I did never consider the slowdon in Star Raides to be a problem though (just as I don't consider the bullet time scenes in The Matrix to be one), instead, I never considered it to be a problem either, and actually thought it was done on purpose -- like how explosions are slowed down in movies -- until I heard otherwise. Never the less, it does slow the action down some when repeated over and over, and I like the idea of having an alternate version. I would prefer the following titles to be improved: Crush, Crumble and Chomp (complete overhaul) Racing Destruction Set (fix the awful scrolling) Pitstop II (should look and feel like the C64 version) Arkanoid (fix the ball and brighten up the colours) I agree all of these would be nice to improve. I didn't think the C64 version was great, but at least somewhat better than the Atari version, especially on speed. I wouldn't use it as a model for improving the Atari version though. They're different machines. Wasn't the problem with Arkanoid more about the over-patterned backgrounds, rather than the colors themselves? I don't know, maybe I haven't played it enough to remember... Edited March 13, 2015 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apemaster Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I'd find it much more interesting to create some new games or ports of great games that don't exist on the A8 yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I agree. I've been playing this quite a bit recently, and it's a commendable job. The music, character control, graphics, are all well done. Nothing gets lost by doing an update. If one wants to play the original, it's still there to enjoy (or despise/hate/abhor, as the case may be). I'll agree with what one reviewer said though, that the "fatigue" factor is now useless, since it declines so slowly. I guess that's one of the important parts of doing updates, make sure that you don't mess with something that's already fine. Oh, worth mentioning too, the updated Trilogy version is machine language, whereas the originals were all in BASIC. A notable improvement as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 The old star raiders thread is here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/125186-star-raiders-hd/?p=1806076 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 The old star raiders thread is here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/125186-star-raiders-hd/?p=1806076 Didn't see that Thread. But the 1st that comes to my mind, seeing that is "what a nonsense" . Before, the Screen was perfectly fitting. In that "enhanced" version, now the movement looks weird. In a "3d" looking game, it is always better to have square pixels. Things would make sense if the screen had been fully adjusted to 320 pixel width also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 But why - better versions already exist of all those titles, just not on the A8 I know you're partly jesting, but some people aren't interested in using other systems, or just don't have the space/time to devote to them. I fall into the latter category. Plus it's interesting to see what can be done on the Atari, since that's why we're here. What is the advantage of a better version of game we've already played? Well, for instance, some games were never really played because of the low quality level, but rather just tested out and subsequently shelved. So it's going to be more like playing the "real thing" for the first time. Unless you're talking about games that were already at least good enough to be played, but could use some minor improvements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 okay - yeah total failures, especially that are classics, re-done well I understand. For instance Green Beret - I would pay for a good A8 version. And indeed why not have the best on the best :-) But I am not keen on tinkering with classics or fixing up games already good enough. sTeVE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 In a "3d" looking game, it is always better to have square pixels. Things would make sense if the screen had been fully adjusted to 320 pixel width also. 320 width would be interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 In a "3d" looking game, it is always better to have square pixels. Things would make sense if the screen had been fully adjusted to 320 pixel width also. 320 width would be interesting. Yes - especially since colour would not be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Most of the conversions could be improved if you targeted a 64K platform or made the cartridges bigger. There's very few of them where I haven't wondered what is actually possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Yes - especially since colour would not be an issue. The original is really pretty monochromish in the playfield area anyway -- aside from the enemies, which are P/M's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I really did consider 320 pixel width (mode F) but mode E was the first logical step. Have you noticed that the stars have 3 brightness levels - dimmest when they appear and brighter as they near? It's a cool effect that would be lost in mode F. I did code a speedup but never posted it. I'll look for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) It is rare to find a programmer capable and willing enough to want to work on such projects? Say to do better versions of games that didn't fufill expectations thereof. Zaxxon and Buck Rogers comes to mind. I did try to recreate the original Zaxxon coin-op graphics - but I simply gave up on that because even 2 character sets will not be enough - even then I could not see it being done? So I tried putting it into a side scrolling view instead - and thought it worked really well. The programming side of it, was never going to be done - within AtariBLAST! because there's enough to do - on the 'to do' list in that regard already... However if someone else wanted to re-use these graphics - and wanted to recreate the full Zaxxon game in this viewpoint - they are welcome to the graphics! While I may try for a proper diagonal scrolling graphics design - one day? I do see it is far harder to do that - and come up with something nice? Design wise. If I am correct with this info - the original coin-op graphics - is not what you think it is. That the hardware does skew the graphics to isometric view. Mame can show you what it originally looks like. (Press F6? or F4?) The hardware is vastly different (from coin-op to Atari 8-bit) accounting for how hard it is to recreate faithfully. I think it is good fun to play around with old graphics - and try to do something a little different with them? Zaxxon is not the only game graphics I have revisited with... My only complaint with the original Star Raiders - is that the green screen with shields on - deadens the reality of it. That shields on should have had that clear view, and shields off - could have been dark brown? (instead of dark green?). Someone said there was a patch done to address this... Anyway - my own view is that if someone(s) going to all the time and effort in bringing together a really nice game - and if it is an old classic - then why not do an enhanced (plus) version of it also? To add your own original spin of extras to it? These extras need not be something grande - but can be little enhancements that fit it so well - they could have been done to the original? It's just that - it's now 20 or 30 years on... and times have changed. With AtariBLAST! - I was not fond of it being a one - touch and you're dead - kind of old style game. I favoured a shield based system - where your ship could take multiple hits before you finally lose one - and because the game is able to throw a lot of enemy ships and their missiles at you - I think this change is warranted. Harvey Edited March 13, 2015 by kiwilove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creature XL Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I was not fond of it being a one - touch and you're dead - kind of old style game. Is what all bad players say! Just joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I really did consider 320 pixel width (mode F) but mode E was the first logical step. Have you noticed that the stars have 3 brightness levels - dimmest when they appear and brighter as they near? It's a cool effect that would be lost in mode F. I did code a speedup but never posted it. I'll look for it. Wow - no, I never noticed the star intensity. Curse my bad eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinnyhill10 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Feud seems to get a high rating on the Atari Mania site but frankly the XL/XE version is rubbish. It's completely brown, awfully slow and Leonoric kills you if he touches you. If someone does decide to update it, use the Spectrum and Amstrad versions as reference. The C64 version is even more broken. In fact the Amstrad version is the source version of the graphics for most of the ports (Spectrum and MSX aside). The XL/XE uses these graphics but they are hideously converted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinnyhill10 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Wasn't the problem with Arkanoid more about the over-patterned backgrounds, rather than the colors themselves? I don't know, maybe I haven't played it enough to remember... Arkanoid just needs the backgrounds fixing. Specifically the levels with the green background where it can be hard to see the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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