The Official Turbografx 16 Thread!

[Austin]

That's literally broken, to the point that I'm not sure exactly what the original intention is.

Unfortunately there are a bunch of games on the system that have the same issue (Ys III is another shining example).

 

It's not like the stock Turbo/PCE isn't capable of smooth parallax. You can see it put to great use in New Adventure Island, for instance (and that one has the benefit of nice color usage as well). It sort of makes me wonder what was going through some of the developers heads of the time.

[Tanooki]

Sega fanboys are the worst. Never look at the comments on the Youtube channel called "VCDECIDE". Its pretty sad that these guys are in their 40s and 50s now and still cant get past that child mentality.

Ugh no thanks, I've seen the stupidity peddled elsewhere as it is. Usually popping up on some site either with the traditional losing argument against the SNES with their childish NIntendon't ramblings still (grow up.) But the more modern argument seems to be finding anyway to take a dump on the PCE/TG16. I'm thinking perhaps those who got beyond Nintendo probably seeing how the market and interest has gone since have decided to go after the other guy as the output is far more comparable in the games. You'll see these finger painting style strokes of any lacking merit taking sloppy swipes with lies, stretches, and just dumb snark and it gets really old. Once the re-run on Nintendo bashing ended up totally as an echo chamber of failure, it was time to start over on the other which also really did in ways out class too but not quite as obviously so maybe it's easier (especially since the more showy stuff never left Japan so you can work the ignorance angle better.)

[HoshiChiri]

Alright, I did it- I splurged over the weekend (and took advantage of Ebay's bucks offer). I picked up a region modded PC Engine Duo-R. Here's the thing: it's also RGB modded, so it shipped with a scart cable. I have zero scart inputs in my setup. I've got an inbound composite cable coming to make do with (the listing said the original able would still work), but it sure would be nice to use that upgrade.

 

So... what do you reccomend for turning the scart signal into something I can use? I've blown most of my turbo savings on games, so cost is a concern (no framemeisters!) I have an open HDMI port left on my TV, but I also have a component switchbox that could stand an upgrade. It's got 4 inputs, but only 3 are actually component, the 4th's composite. This would make a good excuse for a new switch.

[newtmonkey]

Honestly speaking, you really do get what you pay for when it comes to this stuff. An upscaler is ideal, but the cheapest option that supports SCART is still pretty expensive (OSSC).

 

If your console has been modified to use a Megadrive 2 video port, you might be able to use an HD Retrovision cable (component):

https://www.hdretrovision.com/genesis

This won't upscale the image at all, but at least you'll get to benefit from the clarity of RGB/component, and the cables are built from excellent quality components.

 

Otherwise, it's a bit of a crap shoot to go with random converters/upscalers.

[HoshiChiri]

Honestly speaking, you really do get what you pay for when it comes to this stuff. An upscaler is ideal, but the cheapest option that supports SCART is still pretty expensive (OSSC).

 

If your console has been modified to use a Megadrive 2 video port, you might be able to use an HD Retrovision cable (component):

https://www.hdretrovision.com/genesis

This won't upscale the image at all, but at least you'll get to benefit from the clarity of RGB/component, and the cables are built from excellent quality components.

 

Otherwise, it's a bit of a crap shoot to go with random converters/upscalers.

 

It's been modified to use an 8-pin DIN connector, since that allowed it to retain functionality with the stock cables. I don't believe it's got the booster HDretrovision says is needed for their cables to work on PC Engine.

 

Here's the link to unit I got if it helps. I took Tanooki's suggestion for an Ebay seller- while I haven't powered the thing on yet (a/v cable comes tomorrow), I'm pretty sure it was the right choice. They even put in a paper with photo instructions on formatting the memory before use to make sure I can save my games. I didn't even think about that, I'm glad they brought it up!

[cybercylon]

That 8 pin din connector is not the same as the Genesis 2 connector (at least I don't think). I assume that it is the same pinout as found on a framemeister.

 

I could be wrong, so call be foolish, but I remember watching a video (maybe it is those retro RGB guys), and I think I remember there were cables that were BNC breakout on one end and component on the other. So could could you go with SCART-BNC breakout-component?

 

That seems like a good deal. Everything about this console is expensive, but lots of hidden gems.

Edited February 23, 2019 by cybercylon

[DragonGrafx-16]

There's this thing: https://www.amazon.com/SPECIALTY-AV-SCART-Component-Converter-Genesis/dp/B004XSSDPOIt doesn't upscale but it does convert scart to component.

[newtmonkey]

I think if you're gonna spend $40-50 on a converter, you might be better off saving a bit more for a retrotink. I think an argument could be made that composite through a quality upscaler (line doubler) like the retrotink would end up looking better than even RGB through a converter (depending on the quality of the upscaler in your TV; some TVs cannot even handle 240p and will convert it to 480i, then upscale to fit the screen). This is especially true with the PC Engine, which has excellent quality composite video.

 

The retrotink supports component input also, so if you eventually did get an SCART-component converter, you could get some truly great video quality out of the PC Engine.

 

Just some food for thought.

Edited February 23, 2019 by newtmonkey

[HoshiChiri]

There's this thing: https://www.amazon.com/SPECIALTY-AV-SCART-Component-Converter-Genesis/dp/B004XSSDPOIt doesn't upscale but it does convert scart to component.

 

I've come across that one, but it's strictly a video converter- I need to pull the audio too, so it's not really the right one for me.

 

 

Just some food for thought.

 

Food for thought indeed- I have been looking over the retrotink. Mostly for curiosity, but I might need to give it a more serious once-over.

[+Black_Tiger]

Unfortunately there are a bunch of games on the system that have the same issue (Ys III is another shining example).It's not like the stock Turbo/PCE isn't capable of smooth parallax. You can see it put to great use in New Adventure Island, for instance (and that one has the benefit of nice color usage as well). It sort of makes me wonder what was going through some of the developers heads of the time.

6'ish games out of 700+ isn't alot. Many Genesis and SNES games uae dynamic tiles with various results. The entire background and all of the sprites are choppy in games like Super Hydlide and Illusion City.

 

http://youtu.be/tEcxpxqeSIU

 

http://youtu.be/3QxvsTu-2sI

[DragonGrafx-16]

 

I've come across that one, but it's strictly a video converter- I need to pull the audio too, so it's not really the right one for me.

 

 

Food for thought indeed- I have been looking over the retrotink. Mostly for curiosity, but I might need to give it a more serious once-over.

I didn't realize scart passes audio as well. You never see them in the US.

[CatPix]

Yep. Think of SCART as analog HDMI - audio, and video (RGB, but also composite in and out, and later, S-video) the engineers who made it in 1977 even though about leaving pins for data communication. It wasn't really used sadly, but they did pointed out that it would be possible to create a protocol that would allow to sent data between SCART devices, and allow, for example, to control your TV and VCR with the same remote without having to use an universal one.

A late standarisation was made with AV.Link, which allowed for such things but was barely used or advertised (usually, like HDMI communication does too, it was used but named by the TV or device manufacturer, so people wouldn't know that their Sony TV could communicate with their JVC VCR, because they named AV.Link differently).

AV.link was used as the basis for HDMI's CEC.

 

It make me cringe to see that today, HDMI CEC is barely used and even if it used, if you have two HDMI appareils plugged, then powering the second one may or may not switch the TV or put the TV out of sleep - something that SCART did without having to fiddle with menus, in 1977. That's progress.

Edited February 23, 2019 by CatPix

[cybercylon]

I didn't even know what SCART was a little over two years ago. It can be confusing to those not really not exposed to it.

[CatPix]

True. To be honest, for most European it just just a more or les convenient plug - many, especially younger ones, find it less convenient since it's on the back of the TV and that composite inputs are on the side or front of TVs, and they do'nt know about RGB and the jump in picture quality you get. So for someone that doesn't know about it at all, it's even less easy to get infos on it.

[SRGilbert]

Hey gang. I've had this set forever, but only recent realized that it seems a little unusual and was hoping someone might have a little more information.

 

I guess the only difference is the inclusion of Bonk's Revenge with the promo sticker and the sticker on the outer box as well, but I can't find any others like it either on Ebay or using Google Image search?

 

I did find references (but no photos) of a "Bonk Superset" but that was suppose to include a Turbotap and an extra controller, so I'm pretty sure that's not this.

 

The reason I'm asking is I'm thinking of selling it and just want to make sure I'm good on the pricing.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[DragonGrafx-16]

Wow the TG-16 cover for Bomberman is awful... PC-Engine version (the one I own) actually looks like Bomberman.

[Tanooki]

I think that was pretty much to be expected. NEC made it their job to make one bad decision after another with the TG16 in the US.

 

Crappy...

-box art

-pack in title (relatively speaking)

-limited selection of games

-choice of what games did appear (compared to PCE)

-lack of RCA support on system without expensive accessory

-lack of 2 players on the system (though PCE suffers that too)

-choices in how to market and distribute their system and games

 

They did very little right which is sickening since it's a really fantastic system with solid potential with it. I mean seriously compare some contemporary arcade conversions it got and Genesis (or NES, SNES, SMS) and it ranks above many. Later in life adding room for batteries on games or larger titles like SF2 that stomps the Genesis release. Japan got the excellent stuff and much of it never came here, the only saving grace being region free discs and the internet just big enough at the time you could get them easily and for a cheap comparable fair price (which I did.) Had they chosen to bring half the PCE games they didn't from Japan on top of what they did I think the system would have been a regional success in the states.

[Starscream]

Hey gang. I've had this set forever, but only recent realized that it seems a little unusual and was hoping someone might have a little more information.

 

I guess the only difference is the inclusion of Bonk's Revenge with the promo sticker and the sticker on the outer box as well, but I can't find any others like it either on Ebay or using Google Image search?

 

I did find references (but no photos) of a "Bonk Superset" but that was suppose to include a Turbotap and an extra controller, so I'm pretty sure that's not this.

 

The reason I'm asking is I'm thinking of selling it and just want to make sure I'm good on the pricing.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

This was a promotion in 1992. May have been for the holiday season but don't recall for sure.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Starscream

[+GoldenWheels]

The biggest thing they did wrong was waste a ton of time re-designing the thing for America (especially since redesigning it didn't fix any of the stupidity that Tanooki points out, like one controller port and being RF only)

 

They could have had a much bigger, earlier foothold by beating the Genesis to market, if they hadn't fallen for the stupid "Americans think bigger = better " thought line, and wasted months redesigning it, even trying to make a rubber back cover instead of that hard plastic bit they settled on.

[CatPix]

Why does everybody consider that one port is a mistake? is that so hard to get a multitap?

[NE146]

Why does everybody consider that one port is a mistake? is that so hard to get a multitap?

 

I didn't consider it a mistake.. I didn't think about it much at all to be very honest HOWEVER I was a consumer of the Turbografx at launch and I do remember thinking it an odd thing at first that I had to get an adapter for a 2nd controller. I dutifully bought it and my experience with it was 1) The first port stopped working for some reason ; and 2) Since it's a separate part, I of course lost it some time over the past 31 years.. it's probably hiding where my TurboStick is.

 

So yeah I had no bias against the thing, but if I was to make a judgement review just based upon my experience as an original owner, I wouldn't exactly say it was the greatest decision for them to do it that way

Edited March 8, 2019 by NE146

[+GoldenWheels]

Why does everybody consider that one port is a mistake? is that so hard to get a multitap?

 

Because it was a mistake. Clearly.

 

Is it so hard to include two ports, which is what most "multiplayer" games used anyway, so your friend/brother/sister/dad/mom can play on day one without paying extra bucks for something every other major console on the market already did?

 

Two ports was pretty much standard two whole generations before the Turbo. Asking people to pay more for another piece of hardware to do the same thing was a mistake.

[DragonGrafx-16]

I can understand why the PC-E only had one port. It's such a tiny system. The TG-16 had so much wasted space.

Edited March 8, 2019 by DragonGrafx-16

[CatPix]

 

Because it was a mistake. Clearly.

 

Is it so hard to include two ports, which is what most "multiplayer" games used anyway, so your friend/brother/sister/dad/mom can play on day one without paying extra bucks for something every other major console on the market already did?

 

Two ports was pretty much standard two whole generations before the Turbo. Asking people to pay more for another piece of hardware to do the same thing was a mistake.

So, was is a mistake to make the PS1 with 2 ports when the N64 had 4? after all you had to pay more for another piece of hardware to do the same thing.

Msot consoles shipped with one controller so you had to already cash out to get that extra pad.

[+GoldenWheels]

So, was is a mistake to make the PS1 with 2 ports when the N64 had 4? after all you had to pay more for another piece of hardware to do the same thing.

Msot consoles shipped with one controller so you had to already cash out to get that extra pad.

 

The difference between having 1 vs 2 ports, and 2 vs 4 ports is simply not the same thing. Never was.

 

Again, most "multiplayer games" at the time of both of these examples (TG to everything else, PS1 to N64) meant TWO players. Most people could easily get ONE more person over to play a game, but not three or four. Turbob users had to pay for something that most likely ONLY ever used for 2p, just like a NES or Genesis already have.

 

Smart design and marketing doesn't cater to either far end of the user experience (loners with nobody to play with ever/people who expect to play Bomberman with 5 people so regularly paying for another peripheral makes sense), it should cater to the the fat sweet spot right in the middle. That is, people who will play alone a lot, but will play lots of 2p action too when Dad or sis or your best bud wants to play.

 

Yup, many (but not all) system sets came with one pad, to lower cost. You then have to buy another if you want to play 2p. So when you already have to cash out to buy another controller, why also have to cash out AGAIN to be able to plug that controller in? There is saving costs that make some sense (If you're playing 2p, and you have that buddy already...maybe he has his own controller! Not unlikely...) then there are cost savings that are stupid.

 

Pix, if they didn't re-design the thing anyway, and just brought the PC-E over as is, I'd not be making this argument. THAT would make PERFECT Sense, though you could still question it.

 

But they did, and they wasted tons of time and money doing so, and didn't actually make it better in any way. That's a giant mistake.