The Official Turbografx 16 Thread!

[rayik]

I was specifically comparing the two composite signals available on the db turbobooster: the yelllow RCA jack on the back sourced straight from the console, and the composite pin on the miniDIN connector which is sourced from the RGB amp. Of course the S-Video or RGB will look better if your display device supports it. I'm wanting to compare specifically the two composite signals.

Sorry, can't help with that comparison

[Andromeda Stardust]

I finally got the 25-pin harness on my Cthulhu MAME joystick up wired for Turbografx support. Overall a bit underwhelming. Many games flat out don't operate properly and I get the exact symptoms listed here in the OP:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45362

 

After double and triple checking the wiring to the Cthulhu with my continuity tester, I have come to the conclusion that the Cthulhu simply doesn't like the way some games poll the controller. The action buttons don't seem to register, duplicated on the joystick. Left = Pause, Up = I, Down = II, and other weirdness. Fortunately the Cthulhu initializes properly through the Everdrive but original games (Japan or USA region don't matter) are hit and miss.

 

Workaround for games the Cthulhu doesn't like, is to initialize the joystick by booting into the Everdrive menu then loading the game. Unfortunately this means if you own the original Hucard of an affected game, it won't work with Cthulhu. If you're lucky, the joystick will continue to operate normally after the ROM is loaded. Unplug the joystick and reinsert it during the game, and if it's one of the "bad" games you have loaded, the erratic operation will resume until you reset the Everdrive.

 

I've been procrastinating showing off my Cthulhu based Porta Pi "Fight Stick" build. Eventually it and the Porta Pi Arcade will be added to my Flickr stream...

 

For more info on the Cthulhu PCB, see also:

http://www.godlikecontrols.com/

[rayik]

@Kosmic Stardust

 

The MC Cthulhu pcb looks interesting. Looks like it adapts a controller for use on multiple systems. I was thinking of a way to making seperate adapters to use one high quality controller with different consoles. Looks like that is what this does. Any tips, suggested reading on making a box using this pcb. I'm envisioning separate adapter cables for each system - made from system extension extension cables putting a common plug for the MC Cthulhu pcb. Thanks

[Andromeda Stardust]

@Kosmic Stardust

 

The MC Cthulhu pcb looks interesting. Looks like it adapts a controller for use on multiple systems. I was thinking of a way to making seperate adapters to use one high quality controller with different consoles. Looks like that is what this does. Any tips, suggested reading on making a box using this pcb. I'm envisioning separate adapter cables for each system - made from system extension extension cables putting a common plug for the MC Cthulhu pcb. Thanks

My enclosure is here:

http://www.retrobuiltgames.com/diy-kits-shop/arcade-fight-stick-v3/

 

Far right button holes (used for modern 8-button control schemes) are plugged up. It's got holes pre-drilled for a Raspberry Pi, but you can drill additional holes to fit any smallish PCB. Most users add an RJ-45 ethernet jack to their enclosure so they can fabricate their own cables by splicing the controller extension cord into an ethernet cable. Some popular systems you can buy the cables premade. I used a 25-pin Dsub because I originally planned on adding SNES and Genesis clone PCBs to the enclosure, but the rats nest of wires prooved to be more trouble than it was worth. This would have needed 22 pins (5 + 9 + for all three 16-bit systems, and the SNES/Genesis controllers are backwards compatible with NES/SMS/Atari by design. Cthulhu cannot be made to support Genesis/Atari pinouts because it does not support 9-pin cables. SNES layout for Cthulhu is designed for Street Fighter and 3-button platformers like DKC and SMW would feel awkward with it. I was originally planning to use triple ganged DPDT switches to rotate the buttons between fighter and platform layout:

 

SNES platform:

[L][X][R]

[Y][A]

 

SNES fighter:

[Y][X][L]

[A][R]

 

Proper Cthulhu operation with existing Turbo/PCe games is spotty. Some games work; some don't. For the games that don't initialize the Cthulhu properly, the joystick doubles the I/II/Start/Select inputs, and the I/II/Start/Select buttons do nothing. The Turbo Everdrive menu properly initializes the Cthulhu, so game ROMs that don't work natively with it can still can be loaded after the Cthulhu is initialized. Cthulhu half works through the Turbo Tap in player 1 position, but I haven't tested it in the player 2 through 5 positions. The Everdrive menu doesn't poll the additional controller ports so it may not initialize properly.

 

It's great when it behaves, and I had fun getting my ass beat in Street Fighter II Champion Edition Saturday night, so I can confirm 6-button mode operation works (press MODE to switch between 2- and 6-button operation). Sometimes palm fisting all six action buttons at once can glitch the Cthulhu and cause SFII to pause unexpectedly. I'm a "button masher" at heart when it comes to fighting games so I kinda suck at them but there's 8 difficulty levels to choose from so it's all good.

 

The latest Cthulhu update was only to add PS4 support and I don't think the developer really addressed any of the PCe issues. I wouldn't expect any additional bugs to get fixed a this point sadly.

[+Black_Tiger]

Composite from an RGB mod looks emularion output through composite. It has rich vibrant color and a more consistent overall picture quality.

 

Stock composite was extra sharp for the tine, but washes out much of the color in the actual graphics.

 

With Turbo/PCE hardware, it's not about the potential quality of the connection, it's all about getting a new pure signal and then any connection will do.

 

Here's a comparison I did years ago, with the original s-video mod that converted RGB video. The current easy s-video mod most people do today is just a sharp version of stock composite.

 

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/video666.html

[Andromeda Stardust]

Changing the topic here for a moment. My friend is coming over this weekend, and it will be my first time seeing him since recently buying a Turbo Tab and spare controller.

I have a fully loaded Everdrive with No_Intro set of all known US and Japanese ROMs. Obviously the four excellent Bomberman games (including the '93 special battle edition) are a given. I am specifically looking for simultaneous multiplayer titles, not turn based, and preferably not sports games unless the gameplay is really really freaking good (like NBA Jam Genesis good). Hucard only as I don't have a CD system.

Last time we took turns with Blazing Lazers. He kept getting his ass kicked (wasting a few of my lives and at least one continue in the process) as I progressed through the stages. I finally made it to the stage six boss before it was time for him to leave. I later made it to stage seven after he left. But at the time, I only had one controller and no Turbo Tap so we didn't have a lot of options.

 

TL:DR - If someone recommend me some simultaneous multiplayer games, I'd appreciate.

[Gentlegamer]

If only Bloody Wolf was two player like the coin-op!

[Andromeda Stardust]

Composite from an RGB mod looks emularion output through composite. It has rich vibrant color and a more consistent overall picture quality.

 

Stock composite was extra sharp for the tine, but washes out much of the color in the actual graphics.

 

With Turbo/PCE hardware, it's not about the potential quality of the connection, it's all about getting a new pure signal and then any connection will do.

 

Here's a comparison I did years ago, with the original s-video mod that converted RGB video. The current easy s-video mod most people do today is just a sharp version of stock composite.

 

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/video666.html

Oooh, nice! I may yet get one of those db Turbo boosters and plug an S-Video/Composite adapter in there. Makes one wonder why they left the stock composite connected. I thought he RF on my Turbografx was pristine for a retro console, as is the composite, but the screenshots tell otherwise. Much better color saturation in the bottom image:

 

 

The default image below is the regular Turbo/PCE composite.

The Rollover image is the RGB/S-Video mod outputted through composite.

 

[7800fan]

Double Dungeons can be played by 2 at the same times. Split screen so both can go off separately or work together.

Dungeon Explorer can be played by up to 5 at once. All has to work together because there's only one screen.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

In other news, I installed the "backlight" mod on my Turbografx yesterday. Radio Shack robbed me blind on the 3mm square through-hole mount LED packages at $4.99 a piece! I needed eight but bought all seven they had in stock. I mounted the seven white LEDs on the perfboard like so:

::::[O][O][O]:[O][O][O]:[O]:::

This grouping made the most sense with three LEDs illuminating the orange "Turbo", three LEDs illuminating the yellow "Grafx" and one additional LED centered on the circular (16) symbol. Each LED is protected by it's own 100Ω resistor. The PCB had rails on it for traces and once I had the PCB cut down to size with a Dremel, and all of the square package LEDs and resistors mounted to the 0 and 5V power rails, and the whole PCB assembly coated with electric tape, I realized the PCB was too deep to fit properly inside the console. So in addition to routing out a hole in the Turbografx case for the LED lights, I also Dremeled out a rectangular area in the RF shielding. I also had to offset mount the PCB off the console plastic enclosure somehow so they didn't press against the backside of the logo. I did so by using scrap pieces left over from the PCB perfboard I had previously cut up and glued them down forming a platform to lift the LED assembly off the surface. The final assembly is secured in place by Velcro for ease of removal or readjustment if needed. I also used a thin line of super glue on the edge of the hole to permanently secure it. Finally I solder the lead wires to the assembly directly onto the 0V and 5V leads of the power regulator. Fortunately to much relief, everything fit back together securely when I reassembled the case. The glowing logo looks amazing when lit.

 

Pics forthcoming. Sadly I didn't take pics of the internals during the build as I didn't have camera handy, so that means in order to document the final mod, I'll have to dismantle the console again...

 

 

Got pics uploaded...

 

Full gallery here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30203515@N04/sets/72157669550796415/

 

Thread on PCEngineFX (members only):

http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=21076.0

[7800fan]

Makes one wonder why didn't NEC do this??? White LED weren't cheap or readily available for a while but some early lighted devices still used incandescent lamps. Or NEC could have used orange and yellow LEDs instead.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Makes one wonder why didn't NEC do this??? White LED weren't cheap or readily available for a while but some early lighted devices still used incandescent lamps. Or NEC could have used orange and yellow LEDs instead.

I think Apple was the first company to start backlighting corporate logos starting in the 2000s with the white backlit Apple logos on iPads and Macbooks. Remember blue LEDs were first developed in the early 90s, and later yellow phosphers were added to create white. It was a few more years though before consumer products with blue/white LEDs were viable. Also while they could have used lamps, they generate heat and eventually burn out. I think my first gaming accessory ever to use a white LED was the Game Boy Color Worm Light. It was translucent purple to match my Game Boy...

 

One could also ask the same question for why Nintendo didn't backlight the N64 logo. However it is much more difficult to remove from the case plastic without damage and a lot of botched mods out there with damaged or missing logo destroyed while prying off.

 

Speaking of which, my next LED mod project will be my Funtastic translucent "smoke" N64. For this one, I'm sticking a 12v LED strip across the heatsink and replacing the stock red power LED indicator with a 10mm white one. One should tap the 12v supply beneath the power switch so that it shuts off when the console is not in use. The LED strip was rediculously bright so I am dimming it with a 100-ohm resistor. I frosted it with 600 grit sandpaper to diffuse the light and will tilt it gently forward towards the N64 logo. Fortunately I don't have to cut the plastic behind the logo because it is already translucent.

[CatPix]

Yep, as I was about to post, glowing logo trend started in the 2000's, with Apple simply using the backlight of their laptops as a source of light for their logo. It was a clever design idea.

 

I recall that blue LED were first created in 1996... Because maybe if it had been created one year before, Nintendo could have used red, green AND blue led in the Virtual Boy to actually have COLOR. (tho, you can have a fac-simile of colors with red and green so maybe it wouldn't have happened).

They could had used neon lamps or simple 6 volts lightbulbs, but it would have been bulky and adding much more work to add on a consoel that NEC was reluctant to sell in the US anyway.

Edited June 11, 2016 by CatPix

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yeah it's fun to mod old consoles as a hobbiest, but some of those modifications would not be cheap to implement from a manufacture standpoint.

 

As for the blue LED with modern formulation, it was first created in a lab by a researcher at Nichia Japan in 1993. From conception to mass production in just three years time is truly amazing. Many inventions never see the light of day because they just aren't viable from a production standpoint.

[CatPix]

Well I guess that there was plans to have the RVB spectrum for LED; I guess that they actually planned to have LED displays and that they needed to have this blue LED as well as white LED, and that they had to force it into production.

The Japanese are know to push tech on the market and advertize it, unlike European and American that are more frisky.

It's how Japan had analog HD Laserdisc and satellite TV from the 90's up to 2004, but the European HD-2MAC HD system struggled for 2 years and vanished.

[7800fan]

Yep, as I was about to post, glowing logo trend started in the 2000's, with Apple simply using the backlight of their laptops as a source of light for their logo. It was a clever design idea.

 

I recall that blue LED were first created in 1996... Because maybe if it had been created one year before, Nintendo could have used red, green AND blue led in the Virtual Boy to actually have COLOR. (tho, you can have a fac-simile of colors with red and green so maybe it wouldn't have happened).

They could had used neon lamps or simple 6 volts lightbulbs, but it would have been bulky and adding much more work to add on a consoel that NEC was reluctant to sell in the US anyway.

 

 

Blue LED had been out long before that but the early blue LED required expensive material and didn't last long. It wasn't until 93 that cheap and stable blue LED was possible.

 

I doubt Virtualboy would have gone the full color route. It was expensive with just red LED back then, and back in that time an array of tiny blue LED would have raised the price of VB by a lot.

[Gentlegamer]

Is blue LED the wavelength that burns out your eyes and makes the whole room glow blue?

Edited June 12, 2016 by Gentlegamer

[malducci]

Some games don't look so great with the oversaturation of RGB (or RGB -> composite mods). Bonks Adventure is one of them (the skin tones on Bonk are too orange). The original composite video of the system isn't just some simple RGB to composite conversion, but is actually a special digital table (ROM) of RGB to YUV inside the VCE graphic chip, and in such some colors blend better (certain purples with greys, some desatured dark reds with greys, etc). If the original composite doesn't have enough color saturation, then adjust your set - that what we all did back in the day.

Edited June 12, 2016 by malducci

[CatPix]

Is blue LED the wavelength that burns out your eyes and makes the whole room glow blue?

Red, orange, gree, blue and white LED have a lot of wavelenghts (most of them are standardized now for red and green, but if you look at LED from the 80's, you'll see a whole panel of various tones).

Chinese cheap made blue LED are very bright, but any too bright LED, no matter what the wavelenght is, will burn your eyes.

[Gentlegamer]

Red, orange, gree, blue and white LED have a lot of wavelenghts (most of them are standardized now for red and green, but if you look at LED from the 80's, you'll see a whole panel of various tones).

Chinese cheap made blue LED are very bright, but any too bright LED, no matter what the wavelenght is, will burn your eyes.

 

I don't know if was LED, but there was a fad of replacing the power light on consoles like NES and Genesis with blue lights, and they were waaaaaay too bright. Terrible.

[CatPix]

Yeah, those ware LED, the cheap kind you buy from China by pack of 1000 for 12$.

And peopel still use them on modern mods, which is really ugly and very unpractical IMO :

 

 

 

But if you take red or green LED with the same output than those blue LED, it will be agressive... there are red and green lasers powerful enoguh to put paper on fire, so pointing them to your eyes can be dangerous, even at mroe than 1 km of distance.

There is regular stories of people arrested for pointing lasers on planes. Unlike what msot people think, the concern isn't terrorism, but a simple fact that lasers powerful enough to make a dot on a plane is powerful enoguh to blind the pilots at the most delicate time of piloting : taking off/landing.

[atarilovesyou]

Some games don't look so great with the oversaturation of RGB (or RGB -> composite mods). Bonks Adventure is one of them (the skin tones on Bonk are too orange). The original composite video of the system isn't just some simple RGB to composite conversion, but is actually a special digital table (ROM) of RGB to YUV inside the VCE graphic chip, and in such some colors blend better (certain purples with greys, some desatured dark reds with greys, etc). If the original composite doesn't have enough color saturation, then adjust your set - that what we all did back in the day.

 

I went with one of those composite av cables on ebay, but to tell the truth? The picture quality was pretty dang good just using the RF. I just didn't want to have to keep hooking it back up all the time. Now I know why it looked so nice.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

I don't know if was LED, but there was a fad of replacing the power light on consoles like NES and Genesis with blue lights, and they were waaaaaay too bright. Terrible.

Awww, you're taking all the fun out. Here's my daily banger:

I may even swap it out for a violet / near UV

[Andromeda Stardust]

DP.

[Gentlegamer]

Awww, you're taking all the fun out. Here's my daily banger:

I may even swap it out for a violet / near UV

 

What's the big red button for? Fire extinguisher?