The Official Turbografx 16 Thread!

[NE146]

I'm also surprised so many are down on the hu cards and are saying the Cds are where it's at for TG/PCE....even the US library, limited as it is, has gems you can't get anywhere else. Blazing Lasers, Legendary Axe, Neutopia 1+2, Bonk, Ninja Spirit, all hueys, all TG only.

 

Yeah there are many gems for the Turbo.. which is kind of a relic of the time when the Turbo/Genesis/SNES each had their own unique library of titles.. Man I miss that time. But there's only so many times you can finish Blazing Lazers & Legendary Axe over the past 30 years.. Heck I even finished Final Lap Twin and World Court Tennis RPGs. So I'd never hate on the HuCard, but the fact is there just aren't that many. Add in the PCE titles and there's a decent amount but still, you really need the CD titles (esp. the awesome ones) to really round out the system. Just saying

[+Black_Tiger]

I'm also surprised so many are down on the hu cards and are saying the Cds are where it's at for TG/PCE....even the US library, limited as it is, has gems you can't get anywhere else. Blazing Lasers, Legendary Axe, Neutopia 1+2, Bonk, Ninja Spirit, all hueys, all TG only.

 

And when you get into the PC-E library....there's TONS of cool hu-card games.

 

Don't hate on the huey!

HuCard games are cool, there is just that much more on CD and a CD setup still plays HuCards.

[DragonGrafx-16]

HuCard games are cool, there is just that much more on CD and a CD setup still plays HuCards.

I'm HuCard only atm because a Core Grafx PC-Engine was a hell of a lot cheaper than a Duo. I do want to get into the CD games at some point though...

[Tanooki]

The only problem with the UperGrafx is that it adds some lag, plus it only does HDMI/DVI if you care about that (i.e. it's not a replacement for your Duo plugged into your CRT).

 

I have a Super SD System 3. For the price, it's disappointing. The RGB quality is poor when upscaled on a modern TV, though not nearly as noticeable on a CRT. I have a custom-made composite cable that pulls the CD audio from the port on the back of the SSS3; in comparison to the RGB video of the SSS3, it's obviously much less sharp, but also doesn't have the noise issues that the RGB output of the SSS3 suffer from. The PC Engine never "natively" supported RGB and also has very high quality composite output (with the exception of a few games), so I'm happy to just use composite cables on my OLED via Framemeister, or RGB on CRT.

 

The biggest problem BY FAR—and this is a HUGE problem for me or any other audiophile—is that the CD audio is awful. They recently modified the firmware so that you can adjust the CD audio volume to improve the issue, but it still sounds like garbage. There's no excuse for the quality of the audio; it sounds like you are listening to poor quality MP3s, even if your CD images are uncompressed. The firmware update changes it from completely unlistenable to bearable, but it's nowhere near the quality of a PC engine DUO plugged into the same audio system. It might be less noticeable on TV speakers, etc., but I play my games on high end speakers, and I almost cannot stand to play CD games on the SSS3 due to the audio problems, which defeats the entire purpose of the device.

 

Basically, my PC Engine Duo in my office connected to ~$100 monitor speakers sounds MUCH better than my CoreGrafx w/ SSS3 plugged into speakers that cost several times that in my living room (of course, if I take my Duo into my living room, it sounds perfect).

The lag issue is bs, that's depending on the TV itself and how it handles the HD signal, just like any HD-updated old console, or a modern one too that doesn't make up for that. And I specifically mentioned it because of the DVI/HDMI because SD tv is shit and I'm well and truly over it as i prefer sharp clarity, not fuzz, buzz, and vaseline. SSS3 is just a joke to me given how they mishandled that thing through the revisions, and because it's still not entirely 100% perfect plus is stuck in the past. As you said for the price it's disappointing as it looks like trash on a non-CRT TV yet still has some issues there because they won't address the RGB issue or the audio one either. You're right that the real system has exceptional support for clean video, I have a Core Grafx 2 and the visuals over its original cable to my TV is stunningly clean even for SD as it doesn't have ghosting, blur or other oddities like you'd get from say a RF adapter or a poor A/V cable too.

 

I did not know the audio for CDs was garbage on that thing too, that's really disappointing and kind of insulting given that was kind of the point of the device. I swear they tried but didn't. When people called them out the neo-geo forum goon squad attacked, war room locked, and otherwise abused people bringing up these issues trying to protect the precious company rep. It just seems to be the level of incompetence there the product should have just been pulled, not left up there to people who want B-quality product which works but has issues. That thing is like the cheap chinese knockoff console of yesteryear of flash kits, runs like shite, but hey, it works.

 

I'm sorry you got screwed on the SSS3. It seems the reviews keep piling up against that thing yet people still will give them so much for that thing which is just sad. LIke I said, wish the Japanese guy could get more upergrafx2 units out there and in an English friendly way so people can have a clean and easy choice they can find that sucks far less.

[Tanooki]

I'm HuCard only atm because a Core Grafx PC-Engine was a hell of a lot cheaper than a Duo. I do want to get into the CD games at some point though...

That's what I did a little over a year ago, got a core grafx 2, and picked up a couple dozen games after that, and now an everdrive for it too. CD games are nice and all, kind of hard to get after the ISO armageddon last year due to people wussing out after Nintendo took down those crooks at loveroms. The HuCard library when you count japan, and with an everdrive adding in many translated to english titles, is rather huge, like N64 library and then some large. There's a whole lot to do with a ton of variety.

 

I'd suggest getting an Avenue 6 pad and an everdrive and really have some fun with it. Later, if you need optical, get the briefcase addon, the specific strap on the back CD module ot match your CG, or get the UperGrafx2 kit from Japan which runs ISO(CDS) and HuCards and spits it out at DVI/HDMI to your TV so it's crystal clear on audio and visuals.

[newtmonkey]

The upergrafx adds lag according to the developer himself, so no bs (it's right there on the website faq if you care to check).

 

It basically adds up to 1 frame, so similar to the Framemeister, but higher than the retrotink/OSSC.

Edited January 13, 2019 by newtmonkey

[Tanooki]

I don't consider that lag, it won't affect the games. OSSC like frameister are both grossly overrated by luddites clinging to their little stones over CRTs. I have read the site, dismissed that. I was thinking you were speaking off delay so bad games don't react like they should such as when people moan about HDMI mini consoles (NES, SNES, etc) or other HDMI-updated classics and so on.

[newtmonkey]

No reason to get nasty, just stating the facts brother.

Edited January 13, 2019 by newtmonkey

[+Black_Tiger]

I thought that the biggest problems with the UpperGrafx was that it only did digital (interlaced?) video, ran at an incorrect framerate, didn't let you run different system cards and didn't support HuCard roms.

 

Has all of that changed?

[Tanooki]

I'm not being nasty. It just gets old seeing people moan about expenses, then get all crazy about squeezing what they minimally can so from old CRT tech using very expensive scalers, converters, and the rest. It still looks sub-par compared to a crystal clear sharp image. Today there's no reason to hold onto a CRT, HD sets can handle using various means a clean image from old systems. So what you're left with are luddites who can't move along.

 

 

 

I thought that the biggest problems with the UpperGrafx was that it only did digital (interlaced?) video, ran at an incorrect framerate, didn't let you run different system cards and didn't support HuCard roms.

Has all of that changed?

 

Last I read there were firmware updates that addressed that. It can handle for instance HuCards just fine (like SSS3.) And yes it does DVI natively, but it's easy to attach a plug adapter from DVI to HDMI to get it natively into the TV.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Tanooki

[newtmonkey]

I thought that the biggest problems with the UpperGrafx was that it only did digital (interlaced?) video, ran at an incorrect framerate, didn't let you run different system cards and didn't support HuCard roms.

 

Has all of that changed?

This is interesting. I know the second revision of UperGrafx adds a lot of functionality (you can run CDROM2 games, for instance, and even the Arcade card games are supported), but it also costs EVEN MORE than the first revision at just under 45,000 yen.

[NE146]

I'm not being nasty. It just gets old seeing people moan about expenses, then get all crazy about squeezing what they minimally can so from old CRT tech using very expensive scalers, converters, and the rest. It still looks sub-par compared to a crystal clear sharp image. Today there's no reason to hold onto a CRT, HD sets can handle using various means a clean image from old systems. So what you're left with are luddites who can't move along.

 

What scalers/converters? I thought if you're gonna use a CRT you just connect via the console's standard composite out. I dunno man, no one can call me a luddite (ironic though knowing the site we're at, and what we're talking about - old games) but I LOVE the look of the 8 & 16 bit consoles standard out on my shitty consumer CRTs. You can't deny the difference from how say. a SuperNT or NT MIni look via HDMI on a hi-def set, or even standard emulation does. Notice I didn't say one is better or the other.. just that you can't deny the difference. And whether you think it looks better or worse on one or the other, for me it's why limit? Have both.while you can.

Edited January 13, 2019 by NE146

[Tanooki]

Oh you'd hate the weird blend of settings I use on my SuperNT, HiDefNES and UltraHDMI kits. I've got them sharp, with a hybrid scanline which is more like a trinitron or pvm style, yet I've got them filling the screen as i don't like pillar boxing either. They look quite nice.

[newtmonkey]

Like NE146 said, upscalers have nothing to do with CRTs, not sure what this argument is even about to be honest.

[+GoldenWheels]

 

Yeah there are many gems for the Turbo.. which is kind of a relic of the time when the Turbo/Genesis/SNES each had their own unique library of titles.. Man I miss that time. But there's only so many times you can finish Blazing Lazers & Legendary Axe over the past 30 years.. Heck I even finished Final Lap Twin and World Court Tennis RPGs. So I'd never hate on the HuCard, but the fact is there just aren't that many. Add in the PCE titles and there's a decent amount but still, you really need the CD titles (esp. the awesome ones) to really round out the system. Just saying

 

When you add in the PCE library....omg. I think I have 150+...and I ain't talking mah jong and baseball! Awesome, unique library. Just wish I knew Japanese....

 

(and GOD I love Final Lap Twin...good racing, super basic but fun RPG...so good and a combo style I wish someone would copy. Wish I had the same love for World Court Tennis. Oddly just that they didn't "name" the special items ("racquet A" etc) like they did in Final Lap hurts it a lot for me. It's TOO basic (plus the tennis is nowhere near as good as FLT's racing)

[+GoldenWheels]

HuCard games are cool, there is just that much more on CD and a CD setup still plays HuCards.

CD setup from word one is the way to go if anyone is going to be seriously into the system for sure. I dunno, I just think if you include JP hueys...the hu card library is just as good as the CDs. Because adding the JP CDs (which of course play already but you know what I mean)...really doesn't add that much to the CD library.

 

I saw the initial cost years ago, and decided, I'll just get a TG, I'll never need the CDs. Then I wanted CDs....whoops. I took the worst of all roads that being the (later) case. Shoulda just got the modded duo from day one (which looks great on my luddite CRT I just can't move along from! And the sound sounds right and everything! )

[newtmonkey]

I've got a working PC Engine Duo-R, and it's one of my favorite systems ever. If I had this thing when I was a kid, it would have completely blown my mind.

 

I went through the same process as you GoldenWheels, starting with just a CoreGrafx and thinking that would be more than enough... but there are just so many great CD games for this system, I eventually broke down and got that Duo-R. I still get a kick out of playing "16-bit" style games with CD quality audio and voice acting.

[+GoldenWheels]

I've got a working PC Engine Duo-R, and it's one of my favorite systems ever. If I had this thing when I was a kid, it would have completely blown my mind.

 

I went through the same process as you GoldenWheels, starting with just a CoreGrafx and thinking that would be more than enough... but there are just so many great CD games for this system, I eventually broke down and got that Duo-R. I still get a kick out of playing "16-bit" style games with CD quality audio and voice acting.

 

It's one of the few systems I watch intros on, even on the Japanese games where the dialog is jibba jabba to me. Some of them are really nice on those CD games!

[Tanooki]

I'd have to agree about the CD quality audio and voice acting. Games like the opening to Ys Book1+2 or the lead into from 1 into 2 on there are just amazing. Sure there are a lot of stills with minimally moving parts here or there, but it's done in such a nice way it's still very appealing, and booming with that really quality audio score really sucks you in.

 

The JP library of HuCards does add a lot while the CDs don't because they already work, do agree with that. Having an everdrive helps further as you have the opportunity to play a lot of those unreadable Japanese adventures and RPGs because they're translated and patched already with the files floating around online which expands the library even further if you're not fluent. The PCE/TG to me was this nice system that was kind of stuck in two worlds, but oddly when people pushed it better it really did outdo the Genesis in quite a few ways as it could very well keep up with that one in a fight and beat it in various ways too given it's (opinion) better audio, and more colors it could put out. Detractors will go off on the one layer of parallax scrolling, but there's enough games with more than that where they overcame that in software design.

[DragonGrafx-16]

I'd have to agree about the CD quality audio and voice acting. Games like the opening to Ys Book1+2 or the lead into from 1 into 2 on there are just amazing. Sure there are a lot of stills with minimally moving parts here or there, but it's done in such a nice way it's still very appealing, and booming with that really quality audio score really sucks you in.

 

The JP library of HuCards does add a lot while the CDs don't because they already work, do agree with that. Having an everdrive helps further as you have the opportunity to play a lot of those unreadable Japanese adventures and RPGs because they're translated and patched already with the files floating around online which expands the library even further if you're not fluent. The PCE/TG to me was this nice system that was kind of stuck in two worlds, but oddly when people pushed it better it really did outdo the Genesis in quite a few ways as it could very well keep up with that one in a fight and beat it in various ways too given it's (opinion) better audio, and more colors it could put out. Detractors will go off on the one layer of parallax scrolling, but there's enough games with more than that where they overcame that in software design.

I noticed what looked like 3 layers of parallax in Punkic Cyborgs (Air Zonk) in one of the levels.

[Tanooki]

I noticed what looked like 3 layers of parallax in Punkic Cyborgs (Air Zonk) in one of the levels.

That would be the easy one, there are others. Bravoman has a couple layers going for it too. Genpei Toumaden a JP game has 3 layers going on not including the actual background or sprite layer. Cotton is yet another and it's a CD game though not that it should matter same with Xanadu and Terraforming which has lots of layers. Usually you would get your back ground and your foreground with the sprites on it in many games, but some others just added like 1-3 layers in all to it like your example. PCE doesn't get its due, perhaps a mix of the good stuff not coming to the US, and well Sega types always coming down on it pretty hard which I tend to notice on Sega centric boards. You'd think the old console wars were evenly about ripping on the PCE/TG and not just how it was played up as Nintendo vs Sega.

[Punisher5.0]

That would be the easy one, there are others. Bravoman has a couple layers going for it too. Genpei Toumaden a JP game has 3 layers going on not including the actual background or sprite layer. Cotton is yet another and it's a CD game though not that it should matter same with Xanadu and Terraforming which has lots of layers. Usually you would get your back ground and your foreground with the sprites on it in many games, but some others just added like 1-3 layers in all to it like your example. PCE doesn't get its due, perhaps a mix of the good stuff not coming to the US, and well Sega types always coming down on it pretty hard which I tend to notice on Sega centric boards. You'd think the old console wars were evenly about ripping on the PCE/TG and not just how it was played up as Nintendo vs Sega.

Sega fanboys are the worst. Never look at the comments on the Youtube channel called "VCDECIDE". Its pretty sad that these guys are in their 40s and 50s now and still cant get past that child mentality.

[+Black_Tiger]

The parallax/single tile layer criticism was silly, as parallax wasn't that uncommon in console games from the 2600 onward.

 

The SMS and NES in particular had lots of parallax, especially the SMS launch games.

 

What is fair is to criticize any particular game for any console, for not taking better advantage of the hardware. But PC Engine games made terrible use of the color abilities much more than they lacked parallax.

[Austin]

The parallax/single tile layer criticism was silly, as parallax wasn't that uncommon in console games from the 2600 onward.

 

The SMS and NES in particular had lots of parallax, especially the SMS launch games.

 

What is fair is to criticize any particular game for any console, for not taking better advantage of the hardware. But PC Engine games made terrible use of the color abilities much more than they lacked parallax.

 

I'll take poor color usage over awful implementation of parallax any day.

 

https://youtu.be/rj_nZdlr9bU?t=389

[+Black_Tiger]

I'll take poor color usage over awful implementation of parallax any day.

 

https://youtu.be/rj_nZdlr9bU?t=389

That's literally broken, to the point that I'm not sure exactly what the original intention is.

 

I wish that the tile-per-tile updated parallax in Tenshi no Uta II was done smooth in one of the many alternative methods, or just left as a single layer. But I wouldn't want the game to take a hit to the color/detail.