The Official Turbografx 16 Thread!

[CZroe]

One of these days, I'd like to get a PC engine or Core grafx system with a jail bar fix and a region free mod for flexibility for HuCard games. RGB out would be nice, but not vital. Yes, I know a Super SD System 3 covers a lot of that but nice to have options.

 

I saw this listing:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PC-Engine-RGB-Region-Free-Jailbar-fix-compatible-SEGA-SATURN-Csync-RGB-cable/192888585896?hash=item2ce90e3ea8:g:oyUAAOSwg5FcRo1M

 

Not so stellar comments about this guy's modding work though.

 

This is not a immediate want though.... I think an OSSC might be next. I have a second screen I'd like to set up (current one has a framemeister on it).

That was the professional retro console modder circle-jerk from a couple years ago where they all dog-piled on the guy based on his old work and then took credit for his improvements that he had made long before they said anything. Other than his use of epoxy, their big complaint seemed to be that he wasn’t using a professionally produced PCB... but the modwork was so old that it was from a time before they did either!

 

They just jumped all over his work didn’t discuss anything with him and seemed emboldened by the fact that the guy was Japanese with a language barrier and, thus, couldn’t defend himself easily. To see them take credit for his advances as if they pushed him to do better is laughable. Obviously, the stigma they attached to his name is still around no matter how much better he is today... and this post is proof of that.

 

Doujindance is a top-quality modder who engineers his own innovative solutions regularly. Check out his YouTube channel if you don’t believe me:

https://www.youtube.com/user/doujindance

 

No, I’ve never bought anything from him since I mod myself so I’m not defending my own poor decisions. I’m just disappointed by the club’s big-boys and their shamelessly-biased self-aggrandizing group-think and how unfair it is to anyone who’s not part of their clique. Now they’ve got the whole world calling this talented guy “Douche-indance.” Disgusting.

 

Some highlights:

Yesterday Voultar and MobiusStripTech had a public back and forth with Game Sack’s Joe Redifer with regards to a 3DO RGB mod that doesn’t let you adjust the image’s position.

 

This is a well-known problem with certain 3DO RGB mods and you are expected to compensate with adjustments on your TV (not available on all TVs). Joe didn’t know this about the mod he was requesting and blamed Mobius, but look at Doujindance here:

https://youtu.be/WrGD4RIv1AU

That’s his own board/design completely solving the problem. He did a lot of 240p/480i switch work before that (3DO is also known for outputting 320x240 as 480i).

 

Another contrasting highlight:

https://youtu.be/MtT2FW0PYME

This is a RGB PCB that neatly fits into the DIN-8 that you typically replace the DIN5 with. Around that same time Voultar was still making videos about how to install the DIN-8, though that part was standard fare for PCE RGB for years. You still just taped Voultar’s board down somewhere and ran wires to the DIN-8.

 

Check out his combined RGB + region mod for PC Engine, Core Grafx, and Core Grafx II:

https://youtu.be/wDCNNwqQ-vk

 

Remember: He’s doing this for pre-modded consoles but I really wish he sold these. One of the main advantages of a PCB is that they make mounting and assembly easier... which is more of a concern for DIY end users who might buy his board than for people like him doing the premods (if he wants to do more work, he can). Voultar and GameTechUS scolded him for not using PCBs on ancient mod work... when he didn’t sell mod boards like Voultar and GameTech! Kinda weird to impose that standard on him, especially when the examples they looked at were from a time before they sold mod boards either. Voultar STILL doesn’t have a proper solution for the original PCE, CF, or CG II (needs audio amp)... yet he’d criticize the guy if the guy were still building all that without a PCB. Hmm... wonder what would happen if I sent Voultar an original PCE for an RGB mod. Would he finally get around to making an RGB+audio amp for it? Would he leave audio unamplified? Would he *gasp* build the circuit on perfboard like they dared to criticize him for?! I don’t see how they could criticize the guy for doing something even they don’t have a proper solution for.

 

After talking with Mobius recently about audio amplification being conspicuously missing from every internal mod board, even his own, he recently made an audio amp board. That’s great because I was very slowly working on my own and it will pair great with his HD Retrovision adapter board.

 

I’m glad ol’ ‘dance doesn’t use epoxy on his connections anymore but I can understand why he did. After all, he is shipping internationally and has people poking inside behind him. Some oaf takes the tethered lid off, breaks something, and lies about it and he could be obligated to international round-trip shipping. Even major consumer electronics from respected name brands often have hot glue and epoxy to keep internal parts from coming loose and rattling around inside, and Voultar demonstrated that you can get it off if need be.

 

My advice: Buy from Doujindance with confidence. He deserves it. Maybe avoid his older modwork from several years ago. It’s not bad but it’s not very professional. That said, he was pretty much the only guy in Japan doing this for us international buyers and helping us enjoy Duos and PC Engines... and I appreciate that.

Edited April 14, 2019 by CZroe

[+Black_Tiger]

I was at Tekko con yesterday with my daughter, btw. This started off as an anime convention in the Pittsburgh area several years ago. That is still the main focus, but it as also become an overall celebration of Japanese culture. So they have a hall with a gaming room with rows of modern and classic consoles where you a check out a game and play. (Also... lots of versus arcade fighter set ups).

 

Anyway, when I looked around the classic console section... I think a couple of PC engine and Saturn setups would have made it more complete. Maybe that is just too niche though...

doujindance is the Drakon of Japan. He's sold probably thousands of modified consoles that had to be repaired and/or re'modded by others. His PC Engine work is particularly bad.

 

The main reason to avoid him though is that he refuses to take responsibilty for his work and always blames his customers. He typically dismisses any issues by blaming you for not having the console plugged into a Japanese outlet and connected to a Japanese TV.

 

He also tends to post misleading video and pics if his products and then later respobd to complaints by saying that you shouldn't have expect remotely balabced color, clarity, etc from a video mod, since he posted a blurry video of a TV screen from across the room with his cell phone.

 

People like CZroe convinced me to give him another chance a few times and each time I had to resell the unuseable hardware at a huge loss, as I am brutally honest about what I am selling. This has led to me losing at least $1000 on items I bought from doujindance.

 

His prices are also higher than some of the quality modders in North America who actually guarentee their work and have a solid reputation going back many years.

 

Keith Courage is as good as anyone working on PC Engine hardware. Aside from quality mods, he can also repair pretty much anything. After I got my original TurboDuo serviced by him for the first time since I bought it at launch, CD games now load faster than when it was new and Gate of Thunder loads stages seemingly instantly and faster than many SNES games. The RGB mod he does has an absolutely perfect picture with correct color and looks like emulation on your TV.

[CZroe]

doujindance is the Drakon of Japan. He's sold probably thousands of modified consoles that had to be repaired and/or re'modded by others. His PC Engine work is particularly bad.

 

The main reason to avoid him though is that he refuses to take responsibilty for his work and always blames his customers. He typically dismisses any issues by blaming you for not having the console plugged into a Japanese outlet and connected to a Japanese TV.

 

He also tends to post misleading video and pics if his products and then later respobd to complaints by saying that you shouldn't have expect remotely balabced color, clarity, etc from a video mod, since he posted a blurry video of a TV screen from across the room with his cell phone.

 

People like CZroe convinced me to give him another chance a few times and each time I had to resell the unuseable hardware at a huge loss, as I am brutally honest about what I am selling. This has led to me losing at least $1000 on items I bought from doujindance.

 

His prices are also higher than some of the quality modders in North America who actually guarentee their work and have a solid reputation going back many years.

 

Keith Courage is as good as anyone working on PC Engine hardware. Aside from quality mods, he can also repair pretty much anything. After I got my original TurboDuo serviced by him for the first time since I bought it at launch, CD games now load faster than when it was new and Gate of Thunder loads stages seemingly instantly and faster than many SNES games. The RGB mod he does has an absolutely perfect picture with correct color and looks like emulation on your TV.

He sold so many mostly because he was prolific and almost no one else was doing this for Duos/PCE. I have no doubt that some of his older stuff has needed rework, but so would much of the mod work that old from the people reworking it. The impression is further amplified with the second modder’s often-hyperbolic self-promoting claims that it had to be repaired and/or re'modded.

 

Re-watch the Voultar and GameTech videos on the guy with the perspective that they have a vested interest in having you send in your Doujindance console for work it may not need. Remember that they are looking at consoles from years earlier that weren’t even representative of his current work, then note that they still worked fine. Note that even the bad mod-jobs were essentially the only mods absolve before the better engineers entered the field. Notice to their feigned disgust. Notice the contradictions that get played off as being on purpose. Notice that GameTech Skyping Voultar demonstrates this “old boy’s club” mentality. Notice that much of GameTech’s criticisms came from not even understanding what the mod was supposed to do.

 

Just be careful not to fall into their cult of personality.

 

Even Voultar praises the guy for taking responsibility, and responding to criticism getting better/improving. Not sure where you get the opposite idea that he dismisses/ignores criticism and blames everyone else, though I can see the language barrier sometimes causing this impression during the troubleshooting Q and A. Yes, he was prolific back when almost all RGB work was flawed, so there are plenty of valid complaints about his work. I haven’t heard a single complaint about his mod work *performed* in the last few years, and I think that’s the perspective missing here.

 

Now, KeithCourage is a great guy and I respect the repair work he does, but there is absolutely no way I would recommend him for an RGB mod after his recent gaffe with modded Pound cables. To have even entertained the idea for a second, the guy has no clue.

 

The TG mod community in particular seems rife with out-of-spec sub-standard RGB and component mods... including some produced on those fancy PCBs that supposedly make everything better. All those component mods getting shoved into a Ten No Koe 2? Garbage. Are and Voultar will tell you. At least Doujindance uses a THS7316 with correct 75-ohm termination and under 0.7v peak to peak just like Voultar. “Tg16pcemods.com” does not even come close to Doujindance. This isn’t opinion: It’s technical.

 

Since Doujindance no longer uses epoxy, clear tape, bubble-wrap, etc and, instead, has cleverly designed/innovative boards that sometimes do more than Voultar, Retrofixes, MobiusStripTech, and the like, I think he deserves a little more credit than you give him. Everyone had to start somewhere. If you never saw his current products and work and he just went MIA years ago and showed up under a different name today, he’d be praised. He’s proud enough to stick with the name he has, so it doesn’t look like he’s dodging responsibility for his old work at all. Drakkon is not a valid comparison at all.

Edited April 14, 2019 by CZroe

[DragonGrafx-16]

Tg16pcemods.com does do a pretty good job of making repro HuCards though...

[CZroe]

Tg16pcemods.com does do a pretty good job of making repro HuCards though...

Agreed. Even the component mod is what most considered acceptable several years ago. We’ve just got caught up in this modders’ arms race with experts like Voultar, HD Retrovision, and MobiusStripTech raising the bar and telling us how it should be done. In many cases, they’re right. Edited April 14, 2019 by CZroe

[+GoldenWheels]

I know the games that get reproed are expensive ones, and they are good to make them look like repros, I appreciate that.

 

But why not just get a flash cart? It's NOT the REAL huey if you use a repro so what authenticity etc (often the reason cited for wanting physical media) is there...I dunno...seems weird.

[digdugnate]

I had always wanted a TG16 as a kid- the price was off-putting to my dad as I already had an NES. I'd look in the Sears catalogs and drool over the games, though!

 

I keep saying that I want to pick up one and some games for it, but every time I mention more acquisitions my wife just kind of sighs, lol. I'm fast running out of usable space in the house that I could have working consoles that don't need to be reboxed when I'm done playing them.

 

Emulation scratches the itch, but it's just not the same.

[Tanooki]

The desire for a copy cat cart is simple. Someone may just want one, two, three games tops. That vs buying some $100 kit and then another $20+ into a memory card doesn't make much sense. To some, less is more. I kind of agree with that too, though I did buckle and get kits because of all the price scheming going on for some years now. I just wish more made 1:1 repops which I know isn't a popular sentiment for those who care about the $ behind the games, but that's just how it is.

[+GoldenWheels]

My everdrive, likely an older version by the time I got it, was only 10$ more than a copy cat hu on ebay. Loaded.

 

Buying any more than two copycats means....you should have just gotten a flash cart.Who is into Turbob and only wants to buy 3 repros but not grow the collection with a flash cart? They got into the game Just for Coryoon and Bonk 3? Seems...unlikely. You thought that was YOU tanooki and you were wrong about YOURSELF. LOL. (I don't say that to give you grief, I did the stupid thing and started my Turbo love WITH an actual turbo...money wise I should have just stepped up and gone Duo)

 

Just doesn't make much practical sense though to do the repro thing. With something like Atlantean etc I can at least see it, that's a "new" game.

[DragonGrafx-16]

I don't want infinite-billion games in my collection... most I would never play. It's also having a physical object and is why I buy vinyl records and have a bunch of music hardware I use when I compose my own tracks rather than just use software for everything.

[+GoldenWheels]

I don't want infinite-billion games in my collection... most I would never play. It's also having a physical object and is why I buy vinyl records and have a bunch of music hardware I use when I compose my own tracks rather than just use software for everything.

To be fair, a flash cart is physical...and is just as "real" a version of the game as the repro card....

 

(and, let's be honest here....the entire TG and PC-E isn't that huge, when you factor out sports/mah jong/driving/rpgs you can't read/etc, and then factor out the games that aren't....good! It's not quite like putting the entire NES library on a cart and then getting lost while trying to choose, which I admit has happened to me as well)

 

I kind of understand what you mean so far as the physical. It's just hard for me to imagine a game where I care enough to have a repro to look at/show off but I couldn't afford the real thing (not saying I'm daddy warbucks over here, just saying to me, bits is bits when it's flash vs. repro, so I'd have to be a superfan of the franchise to do a repro)

 

EDIT: OK so I actually thought of one in a way...Joust is my all-time favorite game. If I had NOT gotten the repro version of the unreleased Coleco prototype BEFORE I got my Coleco multicart, AND I saw Joust for the same price I bought it at (which was very reasonable)...I'd buy it EVEN IF had a flash cart already. In that case bits would not just be bits, because I love some Joust, and want to physically own every version i can (I own old PC versions in box for systems I don't even own, and never will)

[DragonGrafx-16]

Well to be fair I only have one PC-E repro and that's Override.

[CZroe]

Speaking of retro HuCards... what the heck are these?

 

 

They don’t even try to look legit. One of them says it’s an unofficial development thing, kinda like Bung backup hardware... but it’s clearly made from a real HuCard. That copy of Raiden has no artwork and still says Nichibutsu on the bottom (should say Hudson Group Hudson Soft). At $60 plus shipping, it isn’t cheap... not even relative to a loose original (~$20 difference).

 

With no case/inserts, no manual, no sleeve, no art, wrong text... I can’t imagine that anyone who wouldn’t be satisfied with a flash cart would be satisfied with that... effort. $20 more would net the real thing. I doubt something like that would satisfy people who want to point to that game on their shelf and take comfort knowing they “have” it.

 

The other question I have is “how?” How did they “rewrite” a HuCard? Don’t the originals use COB production methods? There shouldn’t be a place to solder on replacement flash/EEPROMs. If this is easier to do than I thought, I’d like to know so I can internally rewire a few Japanese System Cards.

 

Now, thanks to Deunan, I have seen inside a Super System Card and it doesn’t seem to use the extra bulk for anything at all...

 

Everything that makes it a Super System Card fits within the profile of a standard HuCard. You can definitely see the epoxy blobs from COB manufacturing. Replacing those with a chip of your own would be a nightmare. Where would you even begin?! Of course, they epoxied the other chips too.

Edited April 16, 2019 by CZroe

[Tanooki]

My everdrive, likely an older version by the time I got it, was only 10$ more than a copy cat hu on ebay. Loaded.

 

Buying any more than two copycats means....you should have just gotten a flash cart.Who is into Turbob and only wants to buy 3 repros but not grow the collection with a flash cart? They got into the game Just for Coryoon and Bonk 3? Seems...unlikely. You thought that was YOU tanooki and you were wrong about YOURSELF. LOL. (I don't say that to give you grief, I did the stupid thing and started my Turbo love WITH an actual turbo...money wise I should have just stepped up and gone Duo)

 

Just doesn't make much practical sense though to do the repro thing. With something like Atlantean etc I can at least see it, that's a "new" game.

Can you re-write that middle part as I can't understand what you just wrote that has something to do with me?? That's sheer opinion if someone wants like more than 2 games they should get a kit. I don't know what you're talking about with coryoon or bonk 3, I don't have them, never bothered. Just like this is an opinion too, someone would consider far more value into less as more, but really due to personal issues. A lot of people get a gamers ADHD and they can't really focus with a kit, so they're better off having a game alone or two. Also having to invest in it makes some more apt to focus on playing the game than just flipping through a bunch like some cheap magazine just sucking in the highlights and moving onto the next. There are valid reasons to have the things where a kit just is excessive.

[+jeremiahjt]

I have a question regarding the save function of the TurboBooster-Plus, the TurboGrafx-CD, and the TurboDuo. Does the save function really only save the password the game gives you? If that is all it does then it seems like it is not really worth it.

 

I only have a TurboGrafx-16 and I really do not want to invest in a system that plays CDs at the moment so I was thinking about a TurboBooster-Plus, but after reading about how it saves I think I will pass if it's true.

[+GoldenWheels]

Can you re-write that middle part as I can't understand what you just wrote that has something to do with me?? That's sheer opinion if someone wants like more than 2 games they should get a kit. I don't know what you're talking about with coryoon or bonk 3, I don't have them, never bothered. Just like this is an opinion too, someone would consider far more value into less as more, but really due to personal issues. A lot of people get a gamers ADHD and they can't really focus with a kit, so they're better off having a game alone or two. Also having to invest in it makes some more apt to focus on playing the game than just flipping through a bunch like some cheap magazine just sucking in the highlights and moving onto the next. There are valid reasons to have the things where a kit just is excessive.

Yes, it's an opinion. If you need to spend more money to get less games to increase your focus, it is your money, as I always say!

[CZroe]

I have a question regarding the save function of the TurboBooster-Plus, the TurboGrafx-CD, and the TurboDuo. Does the save function really only save the password the game gives you? If that is all it does then it seems like it is not really worth it.

 

I only have a TurboGrafx-16 and I really do not want to invest in a system that plays CDs at the moment so I was thinking about a TurboBooster-Plus, but after reading about how it saves I think I will pass if it's true.

Like some NES games, some HuCards used internal battery-backed SRAM that allowed you to save your progress and continue your game (Populous was one but there is a later version that does not). Also, just like NES, this was expensive and many games opted for a password instead.

 

You obviously couldn’t add something like battery-backed SRAM to a CD game, so the CD system hardware itself needed to include some way to continue. Because memory cards weren’t the standard back then both Sega and NEC included some larger amount of save memory in the CD hardware. To off load it and transfer it required something like a Ten No Koe Bank card, very similar to SEGA’s own SEGA CD Backup RAM cart. They were essentially memory cards even though the game didn’t save to them directly.

 

Now, HuCard games kept getting made and developers had the same decision about password (free) versus SRAM ($$$) except now they had a third option: CD RAM (also free). Obviously, they couldn’t count on the CD hardware for a HuCard game or else they’d have made the game a CD game, so it needed to have a password too. This is where the “just saves a password” idea comes from... though the password can be super long and unwieldy and not transfer everything, like the huge Gold, Silver, and Bronze passwords for transferring your game without a link cable between Golden Sun and Golden Sun The Lost Age (GBA).

 

The first HuCard game to use the CD dock’s save RAM was an RPG where you saved your progress using what the game called “Ten No Koe” (“Voice From Heaven”). Other HuCard games started using the same “Voice From Heaven” save method and the complexity of their passwords went up too.

 

The alternative if you didn’t have CD hardware was a huge and unwieldy password that may not even have everything. This, understandably, annoyed some players. Those who didn’t have CD hardware still wanted to use the “Voice From Heaven” functions, so we got the Ten No Koe 2 docking hardware, which docks with the back of a PC Engine and replicates the CD dock’s backup RAM without the rest of the CD hardware... only now the memory is powered by AA batteries instead of a super capacitor.

 

Some password-only games that didn’t even use the backup RAM for saving progress in Japan gained that ability with their western release because... why not? It’s free.

 

The Ten No Koe Bank card let users backup their save to a special HuCard when they needed to swap Ten No Koe 2 batteries or transfer saves between systems. All we ever got beyond the CD hardware was the Turbo Booster+, which merely combined Ten No Koe 2 functionality with Turbo Booster functionality. We never got any official way to backup/transfer saves.

 

I’m not going to say that all this means there is a compelling reason to get a Turbo Booster+. I certainly didn’t. Yes, there are some games where the ability to save is much appreciated, but a CD dock or a modified Ten No Koe 2 is probably a better option. Heck, I just ordered a second one from Florida last night for $13 (already had one I got in Japan for $14). It’s super-cheap.

 

Because the Ten No Koe 2 uses your EXT port you’ll probably want to add AV or RGB to it when using it for a TG16. It’s a popular mod. You can even buy them pre-modded. If you just want to use it normally, just clip off the pieces on the side of the connector that keep it from fitting a North American console.

 

Already clipped but the yellow marks the original shape:

 

Ten No Koe Bank cards are almost universally junk due to the dead batteries that are sealed inside. I just ordered one last night to see if I can get in and replace it anyway, but it certainly isn’t going to be as easy as taking apart an NES game and desoldering the battery. Only spent about $7 so it’s a risk I’m willing to take. Obviously, they don’t work on TG16 without an import adapter anyway, and they occupy the HuCard slot so that can’t be used as an alternative to any of this other hardware.

[Gentlegamer]

Like some NES games, some HuCards used internal battery-backed SRAM that allowed you to save your progress and continue your game (Populous was one but there is a later version that does not). Also, just like NES, this was expensive and many games opted for a password instead.

 

You obviously couldn’t add something like battery-backed SRAM to a CD game, so the CD system hardware itself needed to include some way to continue. Because memory cards weren’t the standard back then both Sega and NEC included some larger amount of save memory in the CD hardware. To off load it and transfer it required something like a Ten No Koe Bank card, very similar to SEGA’s own SEGA CD Backup RAM cart. They were essentially memory cards even though the game didn’t save to them directly.

 

Now, HuCard games kept getting made and developers had the same decision about password (free) versus SRAM ($$$) except now they had a third option: CD RAM (also free). Obviously, they couldn’t count on the CD hardware for a HuCard game or else they’d have made the game a CD game, so it needed to have a password too. This is where the “just saves a password” idea comes from... though the password can be super long and unwieldy and not transfer everything, like the huge Gold, Silver, and Bronze passwords for transferring your game without a link cable between Golden Sun and Golden Sun The Lost Age (GBA).

 

The first HuCard game to use the CD dock’s save RAM was an RPG where you saved your progress using what the game called “Ten No Koe” (“Voice From Heaven”). Other HuCard games started using the same “Voice From Heaven” save method and the complexity of their passwords went up too.

 

The alternative if you didn’t have CD hardware was a huge and unwieldy password that may not even have everything. This, understandably, annoyed some players. Those who didn’t have CD hardware still wanted to use the “Voice From Heaven” functions, so we got the Ten No Koe 2 docking hardware, which docks with the back of a PC Engine and replicates the CD dock’s backup RAM without the rest of the CD hardware... only now the memory is powered by AA batteries instead of a super capacitor.

 

Some password-only games that didn’t even use the backup RAM for saving progress in Japan gained that ability with their western release because... why not? It’s free.

 

The Ten No Koe Bank card let users backup their save to a special HuCard when they needed to swap Ten No Koe 2 batteries or transfer saves between systems. All we ever got beyond the CD hardware was the Turbo Booster+, which merely combined Ten No Koe 2 functionality with Turbo Booster functionality. We never got any official way to backup/transfer saves.

 

I’m not going to say that all this means there is a compelling reason to get a Turbo Booster+. I certainly didn’t. Yes, there are some games where the ability to save is much appreciated, but a CD dock or a modified Ten No Koe 2 is probably a better option. Heck, I just ordered a second one from Florida last night for $13 (already had one I got in Japan for $14). It’s super-cheap.

 

Because the Ten No Koe 2 uses your EXT port you’ll probably want to add AV or RGB to it when using it for a TG16. It’s a popular mod. You can even buy them pre-modded. If you just want to use it normally, just clip off the pieces on the side of the connector that keep it from fitting a North American console.

 

Already clipped but the yellow marks the original shape:

 

Ten No Koe Bank cards are almost universally junk due to the dead batteries that are sealed inside. I just ordered one last night to see if I can get in and replace it anyway, but it certainly isn’t going to be as easy as taking apart an NES game and desoldering the battery. Only spent about $7 so it’s a risk I’m willing to take. Obviously, they don’t work on TG16 without an import adapter anyway, and they occupy the HuCard slot so that can’t be used as an alternative to any of this other hardware.

 

Another benefit of the Duo-R.

[CZroe]

 

Another benefit of the Duo-R.

To be fair, you get that with all PC Engine-compatible CD hardware, including the other Duos, the IFU30, and Turbo CD dock. Ten No Koe Bank is made for them too.

[elmer]

Like some NES games, some HuCards used internal battery-backed SRAM that allowed you to save your progress and continue your game (Populous was one but there is a later version that does not). Also, just like NES, this was expensive and many games opted for a password instead.

I believe that your explanation of the backup-ram history may be getting the order of things a bit confused.

 

HuCard games didn't even get the option to have a battery until the "lumpy" HuCard was designed in 1991 (for the Super System Card/Populous/Ten No Koe Bank).

 

AFAIK, the *only* HuCard to ever contain a battery was the Ten No Koe Bank, released in September 1991.

 

Populous (released in April 1991) had the mounting hole for a battery, but was apparently never actually shipped with one (presumably for cost reasons), and instead used the standard IFU/Ten No Koe 2 for actual game-saves. The Populous HuCard does contain an extra 32KB of RAM on board because the game needed more RAM than the 8KB built into the base PC Engine.

 

Populous: The Promised Lands (on CD) just used the extra 64KB of RAM that the IFU provides.

 

Interestingly enough ... the Populous HuCard checks for the extra RAM that it needs in both the HuCard (bank $40) and IFU (bank $80) locations.

 

BTW, if you can point me to a ROM of a version of Populous that expects its 32KB of extra RAM to be battery-backed and so doesn't save to the normal IFU BRAM, then I'd really appreciate it ... it would be a nice find!

 

 

As for the CD's backup SRAM in the IFU ... that was released in December 1988, and the Ten No Koe 2 didn't come out until August 1989.

 

These pages give more background info (including the origin of the "Ten No Koe" term, which was from a 1987 Hudson RPG on the Famicom) ...

 

http://magweasel.com/2011/04/29/i-love-the-pc-engine-tennokoe-2/

 

http://magweasel.com/2009/07/17/i-love-the-pc-engine-cd-rom-system/

 

http://archives.tg-16.com/turbo_play_0010.htm#more

 

 

There is a guy in the UK that replaces the battery on the Ten No Koe Bank cards ... https://www.tennokoe.co.uk/

 

 

Owners of the Turbo Everdrive 2 will soon have a "Ten No Koe Bank"-like capability to save their BRAM to SD card.

[CZroe]

I believe that your explanation of the backup-ram history may be getting the order of things a bit confused.

 

HuCard games didn't even get the option to have a battery until the "lumpy" HuCard was designed in 1991 (for the Super System Card/Populous/Ten No Koe Bank).

 

AFAIK, the *only* HuCard to ever contain a battery was the Ten No Koe Bank, released in September 1991.

 

Populous (released in April 1991) had the mounting hole for a battery, but was apparently never actually shipped with one (presumably for cost reasons), and instead used the standard IFU/Ten No Koe 2 for actual game-saves. The Populous HuCard does contain an extra 32KB of RAM on board because the game needed more RAM than the 8KB built into the base PC Engine.

 

Populous: The Promised Lands (on CD) just used the extra 64KB of RAM that the IFU provides.

 

Interestingly enough ... the Populous HuCard checks for the extra RAM that it needs in both the HuCard (bank $40) and IFU (bank $80) locations.

 

BTW, if you can point me to a ROM of a version of Populous that expects its 32KB of extra RAM to be battery-backed and so doesn't save to the normal IFU BRAM, then I'd really appreciate it ... it would be a nice find!

 

 

As for the CD's backup SRAM in the IFU ... that was released in December 1988, and the Ten No Koe 2 didn't come out until August 1989.

 

These pages give more background info (including the origin of the "Ten No Koe" term, which was from a 1987 Hudson RPG on the Famicom) ...

 

http://magweasel.com/2011/04/29/i-love-the-pc-engine-tennokoe-2/

 

http://magweasel.com/2009/07/17/i-love-the-pc-engine-cd-rom-system/

 

http://archives.tg-16.com/turbo_play_0010.htm#more

 

 

There is a guy in the UK that replaces the battery on the Ten No Koe Bank cards ... https://www.tennokoe.co.uk/

 

 

Owners of the Turbo Everdrive 2 will soon have a "Ten No Koe Bank"-like capability to save their BRAM to SD card.

I didn’t intend to imply any specific order except that CD backup RAM obviously predates all of the “Ten No Koe” stuff.

 

Yes, the “lumpy” HuCards for battery-backed SRAM didn’t exist before Populous and Ten No Koe Bank, but that’s most likely due to expense and the fact that the CD backup RAM was “free” to HuCard developers, if available.

 

They could have used SRAM earlier but they would have had the additional expenses of engineering the SRAM HuCard (not just populating it). The CD hardware came out early enough in Japan that this didn’t happen earlier.

 

As for whether or not there were two different versions of populous, well, that’s just what I was told by someone else when they were describing why Populous has that “lumpy” HuCard. You’re most likely right. An early run with a battery seems to make sense which may be why it was assumed elsewhere.

 

Does Populous use the full 32K SRAM as system memory or might the already-dumped version possibly dedicate some of that for battery backed SRAM? Perhaps it also saved money because they got away with a smaller SRAM chip.

 

Something I meant to say before but didn’t was that many titles that got external save support merely added that to their US releases because it was “free,” but it wasn’t integral to their gameplay. This further led to the impression that most games just saved a hi-score or something. It’s the other titles that matter.

 

I have a late-model Turbo Everdrive. If Ten No Koe functionality is ever supported it gives me more reason to keep it... even after I get my UGX-02 running.

Edited April 17, 2019 by CZroe

[elmer]

I didnt intend to imply any specific order except that CD backup RAM obviously predates all of the Ten No Koe stuff.

I just wanted to clarify things, since your description *could* have been read that way.

 

 

 

As for whether or not there were two different versions of populous, well, thats just what I was told by someone else when they were describing why Populous has that lumpy HuCard. Youre most likely right. An early run with a battery seems to make sense which may be why it was assumed elsewhere.

 

Does Populous use the full 32K SRAM as system memory or might the already-dumped version possibly dedicate some of that for battery backed SRAM? Perhaps it also saved money because they got away with a smaller SRAM chip.

I imagine, but don't know for certain, that Populous just uses that same basic HuCard design as the Ten No Koe Bank (in order to provide the extra RAM chip), and that the possibility for a battery came with the circuit board.

 

Populous wipes the whole 32KB of its onboard HuCard RAM when it runs, so I don't think that they ever expected to put a battery in there.

 

Since the CD version was released a few months later on, and both versions save to the BRAM in the IFU/Ten No Koe 2, I suspect that they were both developed at the same time and by the same team, and that putting a battery on the HuCard was never really an option.

[CZroe]

I just wanted to clarify things, since your description *could* have been read that way.

Yeah, it was just mean to be a logical progression instead of a historical one. Thanks.

 

I imagine, but don't know for certain, that Populous just uses that same basic HuCard design as the Ten No Koe Bank (in order to provide the extra RAM chip), and that the possibility for a battery came with the circuit board.

 

Populous wipes the whole 32KB of its onboard HuCard RAM when it runs, so I don't think that they ever expected to put a battery in there.

 

Since the CD version was released a few months later on, and both versions save to the BRAM in the IFU/Ten No Koe 2, I suspect that they were both developed at the same time and by the same team, and that putting a battery on the HuCard was never really an option.

Gotcha. Yeah, reinitializing the SRAM at boot would definitely not be a good thing for your saves if they were in the same memory.

[CZroe]

Forgot to mention: I got my “untested” PC Engine today.

 

I tested it over composite using some male to female DuPont jumpers with some of those RCA Cinch connectors that have screw terminals (popular with CCTV installers):

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F323062430496

 

It works!

 

Unfortunately, the UGX-02 still doesn’t.

 

I think we’ve confirmed that it’s just a dud. I’m sure the creator will take care of me.

Edited April 17, 2019 by CZroe

[Tanooki]

That's a damn shame, but at least the so called junk PCE cheapo ended up working so that's a good thing.

 

I really want to see some english speaking UGX-02 owners do some serious reviews of that thing covering the full feature set and menu of the beast, on top of what kind of cable kung fu is needed to pop it into a HDMI port before I'd consider plunking down that kind of insane scratch on it.