Skippy B. Coyote Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I've been having a NES related problem for a very long time now, and I think within the next month or two it might be time to solve it. The problem is this: There are a lot of NES games that I really enjoy playing, but I almost never play them because every front loading NES system I've ever had (which has been three at this point, all with new 72 pin connectors in them) has constantly flaked out on me and frozen mid-game. With the systems being so unreliable for me, I just stopped playing NES games because I got tired of usually losing my progress and having to restart at some random point during the game. With that in mind, I went ahead and sold my current front loading NES system and am now considering picking up a top loading NES-101 at some point in the not too distant future once I take care of a few more pressing financial priorities. I think that should take care of the reliability problems, but one thing I do remember about the top loading NES models is that they all have jail bars in the video signal so I'm thinking I'd probably be best off purchasing an NES-101 that has been modified in some way to remove the jail bars. I am hoping to get some advice on the best person to purchase a modded console from might be, because in the past I have had some very bad experiences buying modded consoles. To date every modded console I've purchased (all of which were A/V modded) was returned for a refund shortly after receiving it in the mail, because the colors always looked off in certain games. Most games looked very good on them, but there would always be a handful that the colors went totally wacky on. So, I'm hoping you guys and gals can provide me with some suggestions for where to get a NES-101 that has been modded in some way to remove the jail bars without messing up the color palette in certain games. If it's possible to get an A/V modded system that won't have goofy colors in some games I'd be willing to go that route, but I seem to recall someone around here mentioning that there was something that could be soldered onto the system board to remove the jail bars without changing the video output method from coaxial to A/V. So, who would you guys and gals recommend purchasing a modded NES-101 from? And what type of modification would be the best route to clean up the video signal? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Edited August 25, 2015 by Jin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah98 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 You might want to consider getting a front loader and installing one of these: https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw Then, you will get good quality AV out, a cooler looking design, and a brand new pin connector with multi region capabilities. It will probably take a long time to come though. They are swamped with orders! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlepaddle Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I just clipped my lockout chip and cleaned the connector (ultrasonic cleaner with vinegar), and tightened the connector pins...no problems since; and it's been about 10 years now... works every time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Removing the lock-out solves most problems. If you are interested I can find my old post about how I fix them or I can do one up and you could give it a shot. New pin connectors are garbage and that is half your problem. You need to use old pin connectors. I imagine a modded top-loader like that would run around $200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Get this. It fixes everything wrong with the front loader. No jailbars either, which the top loader seems to suffer from even when AV modded. https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw Here's my NES with it installed. Carts are a little more difficult to remove, but it clears up 99% of the read issues. Edited August 26, 2015 by stardust4ever 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Get this. It fixes everything wrong with the front loader. No jailbars either, which the top loader seems to suffer from even when AV modded. https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw I've seen this but never tried it. I heard it is good. I would definitely check on this though LOL. "Availability: In Stock Due to overwhelming demand, orders placed will be shipping at the End of July." I hope that is just not updated and it doesn't mean July 2016! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byonddrivn Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 You might want to consider getting a front loader and installing one of these: https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw Then, you will get good quality AV out, a cooler looking design, and a brand new pin connector with multi region capabilities. It will probably take a long time to come though. They are swamped with orders! Let me make sure I understand. You just order the unit and install it yourself? Kinda like replacing the 72 pin connector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Yup. 1000% more reliable than the junk replacement connectors, and it's gold plated. Stock NES has extremey good AV and the BLW has a lockout built in if you never bothered clipping the lockout. Just slide the cart into the new loading tray. Like the sticker says, "Stay calm and don't press down" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy B. Coyote Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 You might want to consider getting a front loader and installing one of these: https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw Then, you will get good quality AV out, a cooler looking design, and a brand new pin connector with multi region capabilities. It will probably take a long time to come though. They are swamped with orders! Get this. It fixes everything wrong with the front loader. No jailbars either, which the top loader seems to suffer from even when AV modded. https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw Here's my NES with it installed. Carts are a little more difficult to remove, but it clears up 99% of the read issues. Alright, you guys sold me on the BLW! That seems like a vastly more economical and aesthetically pleasing solution to my NES reliability issues than a modified top loader, so now all I have to do is convince my buddy to sell me back my old wonky NES that I sold him. He should have no problem selling it back through, since he only wanted it for eye candy on his collectibles shelf and never intended to play it much. I'm pretty sure he only bought it becasuse he wanted to help me out and the externals of the system were in perfect like new condition. Anyway, assuming I get it back I'll go ahead and order a BLW for it. I had already disabled the 10-NES lockout chip long ago, so I know my reliability issues were all down to that Krishna forsaken 72 pin connector. If the BLW fixes that then we'll be good as gold and I can finally get back to playing Xevious and Zanac on a regular basis again, and my wife can stop suffering from Tetris withdrawal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) I just clipped my lockout chip and cleaned the connector (ultrasonic cleaner with vinegar), and tightened the connector pins...no problems since; and it's been about 10 years now... works every time. Yeah I have replaced my connector (with nothing special), clipped the lockout chip, and (most importantly?) clean every new game I get. Since I have been doing all three (on my first fix I did only the first two) I have had absolutely 0 issues. Games start, first time, every time, and they never disconnect mid game. That's 2-3 years ago now I think. I use to snuffle at the idea that you really need to clean those contacts on the games....well, I now say, clean your contacts on the games folks, before you ever insert it. Otherwise you are just putting that crud into your new connector, no matter what kind you buy. EDIT, and obviously JMO: top loaders are case design abominations. Eww. What a hideous system. Edited August 26, 2015 by GoldenWheels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Alright, you guys sold me on the BLW! That seems like a vastly more economical and aesthetically pleasing solution to my NES reliability issues than a modified top loader, so now all I have to do is convince my buddy to sell me back my old wonky NES that I sold him. He should have no problem selling it back through, since he only wanted it for eye candy on his collectibles shelf and never intended to play it much. I'm pretty sure he only bought it becasuse he wanted to help me out and the externals of the system were in perfect like new condition. Anyway, assuming I get it back I'll go ahead and order a BLW for it. I had already disabled the 10-NES lockout chip long ago, so I know my reliability issues were all down to that Krishna forsaken 72 pin connector. If the BLW fixes that then we'll be good as gold and I can finally get back to playing Xevious and Zanac on a regular basis again, and my wife can stop suffering from Tetris withdrawal. I would suggest getting a different system. If you had problems after disabling the lock-out it may mean you had other problems than the pin connector. You could have a loose wire, a trace that is worn, some corrosion somewhere, bad caps, or something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashopepper Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'll throw my 2 cents in and make a case for the modded 101 top loader. I installed my own av mod and it's pretty simple. The jail bars are removed by lifting a leg leading to the RF modulator. So you loose RF for no jail bars and AV. I really like the simulated stereo audio that is included wit most mods. Pretty much it just splits the sound channels coming through the system. Also super easy to install and you can put a resistor between them to mix the channels to your liking. Fantastic results. Clean your games once and never again. No matter how manny times I cleaned my system and games and rebuilt 72 pin connectors the toaster would not work first time a large percentage of the time. I've had in my possession over 20 units, referbished/new connectors/well taken care of and none have been even close to as reliable as my 101's. I haven't cleaned a NES game in 2 years I bet. Also the system has a much smaller footprint on your stand and famicom adaptors are easier to use/ gameshark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Clean your games once and never again. No matter how manny times I cleaned my system and games and rebuilt 72 pin connectors the toaster would not work first time a large percentage of the time. I've had in my possession over 20 units, referbished/new connectors/well taken care of and none have been even close to as reliable as my 101's. I haven't cleaned a NES game in 2 years I bet. This is due to the NES-100 (toaster) faulty "zero force insertion" mechanism. Every other cartridge console ever used folding pins that scraped the cart connectors upon insertion. This scraping action pretty much removes the infantessimally small layer of oxide or grime that built up on game carts. Heavy oxidation or dirt will prevent any game from working onnany system. Cleaning carts removes 99% of this buildup and the 1% that remains is scraped away upon insertion. The "Zero force" loader on the stock NES connector does not prform this scraping action, meaning any cart inserted and the connector pins must be immaculate in order to load. Furthermore repeated insertions bend the contacts over time resulting in games completely failing to work. Game Genies exacerbated it and were often the only means to get the console to read the cartridge port. Replacing the pin connector is only a bandaid. You are replacing a part that is defective by design with a new part also defective by design, and likely manufactured to lower standards. The BLW eliminates this by replacing the entire loading tray with a straight connector with rugged build quality and gold plated connector, and a lockout circuit paired with the internal lockout, essentially making the NES region free. Even though the BLW loads sideways, it is effectively identical to every top loading system ever in terms of reliability. Furthermore, the toaster actually used higher quality components and construction, making the stock electronics, picture, and sound superior to the toploader, no AV mod or lockout disable needed. So technically a toaster system with BLW installed is superior to the top loader, unless you pay someone to mod it or have the skills to apply them yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 It sounds like stardust4ever created BLW or at least gets commission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byonddrivn Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 It sounds like stardust4ever created BLW or at least gets commission Lol. Well he's earned it then cuz I'm sold on ordering one soon. I contacted them to ask about the 72 to 60 pin converter that they have coming out to see if I can just order both together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) It sounds like stardust4ever created BLW or at least gets commission Nope. Not one red cent, although I'm a proud KS backer. I haven't has a single game fail to load flawlessly since I installed mine. In years of dealing with my side loader I have been constantly cleaning my carts non-stop, often taking a half-dozen attempts to load each game, and replaced the pin connector three times. Never again. I will admit, however, it's a little tricky to remove game carts because the slot does grab them as it's not frictionless, but no worse than those aftermarket "death grip" connectors (which loosen with time until they become unreliable just like the stock originals). Unlicensed carts without the push tab are a bit harder to remove as well. Edited August 27, 2015 by stardust4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLic0ne t0aD Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Back to the OT real quick, I'd say score your own Top Loader cheap somewhere and Mod it yourself.. I still need to do mine up one of these days. BTW, I will be sure to buy that BLW for my Toaster whenever my current connector craps out, it was replaced last year. I leave my carts up and use an EverDrive so that saves wear and tear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I see I'm not the only one who uses the words "death grip" with regard to aftermarket sockets for NES toasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldschool80skid Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Here's an nes top loader with an RGB mod installed if that's your thing. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=151790549384&alt=web Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Here's an nes top loader with an RGB mod installed if that's your thing. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=151790549384&alt=web Yeah, I wouldn't bounce on that just yet. Game-Tech-US is putting his first ten or so HDMI mod kits up for grabs on eBay. I believe later on he will be offering a service to install these on customers NES units and/or selling pre-modded consoles and DIY kits on his website later on. Good thing about this mod kit however is it does not permanently disable the stock RF or AV so your console will still be Zapper compatible if you choose to hook up an old style CRT. There are threads about it on nintendoage and nesdev. http://www.game-tech.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/nes/originalnes http://nintendoage.com/auth/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=138177 I'm still waiting for bunnyboy's AVS (all digital FPGA NES with all new parts and HDMI 720p output) to drop. That thing is sick. Choices, choices... http://nintendoage.com/auth/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=92557 Edited August 27, 2015 by stardust4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldschool80skid Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I wouldn't bounce on that just yet. Game-Tech-US is putting his first ten or so HDMI mod kits up for grabs on eBay. I believe later on he will be offering a service to install these on customers NES units and/or selling pre-modded consoles and DIY kits on his website later on. Good thing about this mod kit however is it does not permanently disable the stock RF or AV so your console will still be Zapper compatible if you choose to hook up an old style CRT. There are threads about it on nintendoage and nesdev. http://www.game-tech.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/nes/originalnes http://nintendoage.com/auth/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=138177 I'm still waiting for bunnyboy's AVS (all digital FPGA NES with all new parts and HDMI 720p output) to drop. That thing is sick. Choices, choices... http://nintendoage.com/auth/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=92557 For me buying a brand new from scratch NES to play on high def TVS would be more preferable than having one of my stock NES top loaders modified. However with that being said, I have no real desire to shell out between 3-5 hundred $$ just to play NES at 1080P. I love playing on my CRT TVS because this the is way I have always enjoyed the older games. Edited August 27, 2015 by Oldschool80skid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) For me buying a brand new from scratch NES to play on high def TVS would be more preferable than having one of my stock NES top loaders modified. However with that being said, I have no real desire to shell out between 3-5 hundred $$ just to play NES at 1080P. I love playing on my CRT TVS because this the is way I have always enjoyed the older games. Yeah, AVS will be under $200 when it drops and also comes with new clicky microswitch controllers available. Brian of RetroUSB could have stuffed the AVS menu full of options like Game-Tech's add-on but he's keeping it simple and free of clutter for non-tech-savvy users. The AVS has an NES and Famicom port on it and supports audio pins as well via a simple ADC and the Famicom 15-pin expansion port. There will be a menu option to toggle Four Score emulation on or off. This will enable ports 3 and 4 of the AVS to be used in either Famicom mode or Four Score mode for games that support them. Game Tech features some slick overclocking options as well as stereo panning and volume control of the audio channels. Game Tech does not use the expansion audio pin but instead detects games with expansion audio by scanning the bus for writes to specific registers and digitally emulating those audio chips if detected. You can still get analog audio output from the AV side. AVS uses integer scaling of the 256x240 NES framee at 3x3 (768x720), 4x3 (1024x720), or 5x3 (1280x720) ratios with side bars and optional scanlines (every third 720p line is partially muted), and I believe there will also be an option to show or hide the top 8 and top bottom NES scan lines (hidden by default). Game Tech's HDMI mod has all sorts of scaling options to full 1920x1080 with a tweakable menu. But yeah I agree there is something to be said about the clean interface of the AVS. It also supports NTSC or PAL timings (and possibly Dendy) provided your HDTV accepts 50Hz signal. Game Tech's HDMI mod is locked to the region of your NES PPU. There was also discussion of a potential bundled game on the AVS if it is powered on without a cart (Warlords clone, 8-bit Xmas 2011 without the Xmas theme), pending if there's space available on the FPGA. Please note everything's subject to change and I'm only going by what's been posted in the NA forums. Edited August 27, 2015 by stardust4ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutsy Doodleheimer Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Get this. It fixes everything wrong with the front loader. No jailbars either, which the top loader seems to suffer from even when AV modded. https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw Here's my NES with it installed. Carts are a little more difficult to remove, but it clears up 99% of the read issues. I just checked out the youtube video of it. That is freaking awesome! Whoever invented that is a genius. I'm gonna have to invest in this. $25 well spent! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) PURE genius IMO would be designing a BLW that also had a famicom port on top--you could cut the hole in your NESs top casing, and drop in and screw down a cheap cart slot piece to get your fami carts to the top connector (the cart slot piece would be WIDELY flanged to hide all but the most most ragged dremel cuts by amateurs like myself). NES in the front, Famicom in the top. That, I would pay for. I realize there is likely not ROOM for that since the cart sits up...but man would I love that. Edited August 27, 2015 by GoldenWheels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah98 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Even though I was the first to recommend the BLW in this thread, a word of caution. I ordered one the first week of July and it still hasn't shipped. I've also received no response to email. I know they are incredibly busy with the Kickstarter, so I'm patient. This is such an incredible, much needed product. We should support them. Just don't expect to get one right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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