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FPGA Based Videogame System

Interest in an FPGA Videogame System  

605 members have voted

  1. 1. I would pay....

  2. 2. I Would Like Support for...

  3. 3. Games Should Run From...

    • SD Card / USB Memory Sticks
    • Original Cartridges
    • Hopes and Dreams
  4. 4. The Video Inteface Should be...



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Maybe Analogue will do something like that once they sell through all the specific models they have planned and then keep that in stock indefinitely instead of doing the limited releases they seem to do now.

Edited by Toth

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Another question I would like to ask you guys: I am thinking about getting an SD2SNES for my much much loved Super NT, since it's possible that SuperFX is not implemented on the console firmware itself, but I'd like to get the cheaper chineese clone by Jackdiy. Do you know it it could somehow damage the console? I am talking about the Jackdiy model (http://www.jackdiy.cn/). Is it safe for my Super NT?

 

Thanks!

 

While the cart should play and not harm the Super NT, the clone will definitely be based on the Revision F (if not an earlier rev) -- the current iteration of the SD2SNES is on Revision J, which brings a lot of fixes to the hardware, including to the audio circuit. If you go with a Chinese clone, the compatibility with the MSU-1 isn't guaranteed to work, and the clone will more than likely be built using cheaper components, which can lead to potential other issues, many of which are largely unknown and undocumented. Finally, Krikkz has come out a few times saying that he would not officially support any clone of the SD2SNES that has issues, so you'd be on your own if it does in fact have problems.

 

http://retrorgb.com/sd2snes.html

 

You are better off spending the extra money buying from him directly or from a reputable reseller, such as Stone Age Gamer. There are also a few sellers of the SD2SNES on eBay as well.

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Hey guys, what cable do you use for Super NT audio? My HDMI's audio output is not that good, so I need a way to get audio directly from the console without passing though the TV.

Buy a soundbar.

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Hey guys, what cable do you use for Super NT audio? My HDMI's audio output is not that good, so I need a way to get audio directly from the console without passing though the TV.

Can get something like this as well. It is an audio extractor. I have one and it works well. I send the audio into a set of computer desktop speakers that has an Aux input. My PC monitor has both an HDMI and a displayport input and I use the HDMI for my consoles.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BIQER0E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edited by Toth
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I've got the RevG board on mine which is just new enough to have MSU-1 be solid and the audio to be mostly fixed through software tweaks, added the 5V DAC fix to boost audio. H added I believe a ferrite bead to smooth it up a little further. J the latest removes that regressing the audio to my G board but adds the USB support and microSD cards too.

 

Also SDD1 has been compiled if you can find it, Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 2 and Star Ocean are gold. US/EU libraries now completely done for SNES, lacking 5 JP games now, 3 of which will happen when SPC7110 is added.

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Ijor, feel free to do what you like, and accept the consequences when paying customers initiate returns and/or post angry rants to social media / youtube about black screens and "unusable signal" warnings.

I don't sell any product and I don't have any paying customers. I develop cores and only care about what is best for most of the users of my cores. I don't really care about somebody ranting on any social network.

 

I think it is so great to be able to display at the original refresh rate, a full fledged scaler, avoiding tearing and reducing the video output lag. And it does work for most users, despite what you are saying. And for those user that it doesn't work, a configuration switch can be used to fall back to a full HDMI standard output. It can be even the default if you want. I do know that even then, for a small minority it won't help. There are always be users that would try to use an advanced non default configuration, and they will complain if it doesn't work for them. Personally I don't care too much. I won't sacrifice the benefit of the majority just for a small minority.

 

As I said already, I realize of course that the situation is completely different for a commercial product. I wasn't claiming that a commercial product must do the same way that we do. I was just claiming that technically it is perfectly possible.

 

I think what you will find is that while many displays can and do accept "off spec" analog signals to a degree, they become much less fault tolerant over digital.

I am talking all the time about HDMI.

 

Try bending the clock sync speed beyond .1%, skipping clock cycles, scanlines, etc over a digital hdmi connection and very quickly you will find most displays will go black.

Your theory doesn't match the practice according to our tests. We are "bending the clock" way much more than 0.1%. We transform a 60Hz mode into a 50Hz one by reducing the pixel clock rate as much as 20%! And as surprising as it might seem, it works with most monitors. Yes, over HDMI. Granted, it doesn't work on all monitors, and we didn't conduct a scientific massive testing. It is just many users testing the cores, sometimes, with multiple monitors. So our statistic might be not exact. But it is very unlikely that is completely off either.

 

On other cases we are adding a single extra (not active) scanline to match the original number of scanlines. This wasn't tested yet as much changing the clock. But so far nobody complained and it works in every single monitor we tried. Again, I'm sure it doesn't work of every HDMI monitor on earth. But so far it seems it works on most of them.

 

Anyway, I think the claim that most HDMI monitors don't tolerate any minimum deviation to the standard, is wrong. And now with the advent of VRR (Variable Refresh Rate) standards, the situation can only improve in the future.

 

Again, I perfectly understand that a commercial product can't afford the luxury that a homebrew product can. Well, that might be an advantage of a non commercial product.

 

I’ll just add that in my case, I use my Super NT over the original now because of the issues with HDMI. The OSSC output from an SNES isn’t compatible with my TV/AVR setup that are both about a year old ...

 

What we are doing has no relation whatsoever with the OSCC implementation. It is a completely different approach.

Edited by ijor

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I consider the SNS-101 to be an "Official Clone" of the SNS-001. A cost saving measure for Nintendo, which obviously cuts corners. It causes glitching with several games. Demon's Crest, Super Ghouls N Ghosts, Soul Blazer, Aladdin, which all have some on-screen garbage, while Air Strike Patrol is missing the ground shadow. The SNS-101 also lacks RGB & Svideo output, as well as having white levels which are washed out.

 

I barely consider the Genesis 3 to be a Sega product, but I won't get started on that.

What do you consider to be later 1-chip sns-001s? Are those "clones" too? Because they share the same cpu as sns-101 but are clearly sns-001 based on form factor and product key.

 

Another question I would like to ask you guys: I am thinking about getting an SD2SNES for my much much loved Super NT, since it's possible that SuperFX is not implemented on the console firmware itself, but I'd like to get the cheaper chineese clone by Jackdiy. Do you know it it could somehow damage the console? I am talking about the Jackdiy model (http://www.jackdiy.cn/). Is it safe for my Super NT?

 

Thanks!

Normally I'd feel bad for those who get duped into buying fakes. You clearly understand the risk involved with buyjng an inferior product. My recommendation would be to get the legit flashcart or don't bother. If you buy rubbish, expect to get burned. Just saying...

 

At this point all I really want is one large fpga in a nice box with say a PCI Express 4X slot or whatever it would take as a cartridge port with cartridge Port connector adapters for each of the classic systems that plug into that I do not want to have 7 classic system-specific boxes laying around all with roughly the same Hardware inside I rather just have one bit of hardware and all these separate cores and adapters

Honestly, there's something to be said of the beauty of discrete systems. A shoebox full of pin adapters is pretty fugly looking in and of itself, and carts do not sit flush, though I do commend Analogue in producing the Sega adapters.

 

Hey guys, what cable do you use for Super NT audio? My HDMI's audio output is not that good, so I need a way to get audio directly from the console without passing though the TV.

Could get an hdmi switch for your game consoles. Monoprice sells an affordable 4 in, 1 out hdmi switch with analog and digital audio outputs. Switches do not add lag to the signal. Definitely use discrete sound when feasible tv speakers suck.

 

Or you could also buy a Mega SG and use the bundled headphone jack! :grin:

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No. Real speakers or bust. Custom rig I did. The birdhouses were a side project and are not hooked up.

37802706741_305b1872d8_h.jpg

https://www.parts-express.com/tritrix-mtm-tl-tower-speaker-components-and-cabinet-kit-pair--300-702

Wow, the Super NT must sound AWESOME with that!!

How do you get the sound out of the console? Do you get the sound from the TV?

Edited by vanfanel
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I can confirm that arbitrary refresh rates work over HDMI with at least some higher-end equipment. I use an iScan Duo video processor and an Eizo Foris monitor, and both are capable of working non-standard frame rates. the iScan can convert analog to HDMI with the output framerate locked to the input, and the Eizo happily takes the output from SNES and the like that way.

 

Also the Ultra-HDMI mod can output native N64 frame rate, and the iScan happily accepts that and passes it unaltered to the Eizo with also accepts it.

 

So I would welcome the option for native frame rate on Super NT and other FPGA console replications.

 

Done the way the UltraHDMI and my iScan do it, there would be no risk. When selecting a non-standard frame rate (or any video change at all in the case of the iScan), the user is asked to confirm that they see a picture, and if they do not confirm, it reverts to the previous mode.

Edited by Forsaken

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Wow, the Super NT must sound AWESOME with that!!

How do you get the sound out of the console? Do you get the sound from the TV?

My TCL 4k HDTV has it's headphone output wired directly to the stereo receiver. For the High

Definition Genesis er Mega NT please excuse me, Mega SG, I'll be able to bypass the DAC audio encoder in the TV entirely. :cool:

 

Also NES chiptunes sound phenominal as well. I have an original physical copy of Brad Smith's MOON8 (NES cover of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon) as well as numerous other 8-bit albums.

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I've got to share some good fortune I came into today. Like many others in this thread I was surprised to see how high the prices of working Sega CDs had gotten on ebay. I decided to take a chance on a Model 2 unit that was listed as untested/as-is, but looked to be in good condition for $60. The biggest reason I went for it was because it came with the extension that allowed it to work with the Model 1 Genesis which seems to be more difficult to find and I'm quite attached to my Model 1. It came today and aside from a nasty sounding noise when it first turns on it seems to work great! I'm still looking forward to the Mega Sg for HDMI but I'm going to enjoy the OG hardware on my CRT in the meantime.

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Thats definitely cool for MiSTer owners, but won't be a viable replacement for SNT anytime soon.

 

My biggest issue with MiSTer is the 2 frames of lag via HDMI out. My TV has 2 frames inherent, so that means 4 frames total if I were to use the MiSTer.

 

I personally don't see what advantages MISTer has over software emulation with all that added latency. If someone can create a zero lag mode like found on Analogue devices then we can talk.

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Thats definitely cool for MiSTer owners, but won't be a viable replacement for SNT anytime soon.

 

My biggest issue with MiSTer is the 2 frames of lag via HDMI out. My TV has 2 frames inherent, so that means 4 frames total if I were to use the MiSTer.

 

I personally don't see what advantages MISTer has over software emulation with all that added latency. If someone can create a zero lag mode like found on Analogue devices then we can talk.

 

I agree that MiSTer isn't going to replace the SNT anytime soon. But I don't understand the comment comparing to software emulation at all.

Can you provide a link for a very tiny form factor pc that will emulate snes with a high degree of accuracy (bsnes accuracy?), only introduces 2 frames of lag, and costs $160 or less?

And what one that can actually run all the special chip games at original framerate too because that's inevitably coming to MiSTer as well?

And how about one that's perfectly silent with low power requirements?

 

Plus this might be all kind of moot because MiSTer will possibly get a low lag mode in the future to cut out a big chunk of those 2 frames.

Edited by cacophony

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I agree that MiSTer isn't going to replace the SNT anytime soon. But I don't understand the comment comparing to software emulation at all.

Can you provide a link for a very tiny form factor pc that will emulate snes with a high degree of accuracy (bsnes accuracy?), only introduces 2 frames of lag, and costs $160 or less?

And what one that can actually run all the special chip games too because that's inevitably coming to MiSTer as well?

And how about one that's perfectly silent with low power requirements?

The current MiSTer SNES core is not BSnes level of accuracy. My point is you currently won't get a better experience playing that SNES core on MiSTer vs using a budget PC,RetroPie or hacked SNES Classic, so whats the point?

 

That scaler with its 2 frames of lag is really holding back the MiSTer. The only way to get MiSTer to perform close to Analogue standards in terms of latency is to purchase the IO board and run the analog signal to an OSSC, but thats quite an investment.

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The current MiSTer SNES core is not BSnes level of accuracy. My point is you currently won't get a better experience playing that SNES core on MiSTer vs using a budget PC,RetroPie or hacked SNES Classic, so whats the point?

 

That scaler with its 2 frames of lag is really holding back the MiSTer. The only way to get MiSTer to perform close to Analogue standards in terms of latency is to purchase the IO board and run the analog signal to an OSSC, but thats quite an investment.

 

The SNES core was just ported over from a different platform 3 days ago and is about to receive months of attention and fixes from multiple people, so making any kind of statements about how worthwhile it is makes zero sense.

Just today it has received multiple fixes: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/commits/master

 

And as somebody who spent an hour playing with it yesterday, I can already say it's a significantly better SNES experience compared to any software emulation I've tried. The lessened input lag relative is the SNES classic and especially Raspberry Pi is very noticeable, and the accuracy is already quite solid for the games I tried.

 

Maybe best not to judge something you're never tried? ;)

Edited by cacophony

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The SNES core was just ported over from a different platform 3 days ago and is about to receive months of attention and fixes from multiple people, so making any kind of statements about how worthwhile it is makes zero sense.

Just today it has received multiple fixes: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/commits/master

 

But as somebody who spent an hour playing with it yesterday, I can already say it's a significantly better SNES experience compared to any software emulation I've tried. The lessened input lag relative is the SNES classic and especially Raspberry Pi is very noticeable, and the accuracy is already quite solid for the games I tried.

Have you compared to Snes9x or BSnes with run ahead latency enabled?

 

Again, I know some people are okay with it, but in my opinion an additional 2 frames of lag is unacceptable and straight up garbage, especially if you have a TV that already has 2 frames of lag inherently.

 

If you are using a high quality PC Monitor then the additional lag from the MiSTer's HDMI output probably isn't too bad, but thats still worse than my Super NT + 2 frames of lag Panasonic Plasma.

Edited by SegaSnatcher

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Have you compared to Snes9x or BSnes with run ahead latency enabled?

 

Again, I know some people are okay with it, but in my opinion an additional 2 frames of lag is unacceptable and straight up garbage.

 

Why would I when I can compare to SNT?

 

You keep changing the point you're making as I respond to each comment lol

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Why would I when I can compare to SNT?

 

You keep changing the point you're making as I respond to each comment lol

Well if you have a Super NT on hand then the 2 extra frames of input lag on the MiSTer should be quite obvious.

 

Thats why I don't currently get all the hype surrounding the MiSTer. I even asked if there was a goal to create a 0 lag mode like found in Analogue products and the answer was "Do it yourself."

 

I just don't have time for expensive products that come with so many damn compromises.

 

You know, its cool all these new cores are coming to the MiSTer, but with that lackluster scaler whats the point? I just want to plug into my TV and have a nice low lag solution with decent clarity and no shimmering

Edited by SegaSnatcher

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Well if you have a Super NT on hand then the 2 extra frames of input lag on the MiSTer should be quite obvious.

 

Uhh yeah, sorry, I thought you meant for accuracy purposes when I first read your reply. Re: latency I was just talking about relative to software emulation via pi and snes classic. In that case MiSTer vs SNES classic is pretty obvious. For the SNT case I'm not sure it's as obvious. I certainly haven't noticed much difference with my setup.

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Uhh yeah, sorry, I thought you meant for accuracy purposes when I first read your reply. Re: latency I was just talking about relative to software emulation via pi and snes classic. In that case MiSTer vs SNES classic is pretty obvious. For the SNT case I'm not sure it's as obvious. I certainly haven't noticed much difference with my setup.

Thats quite interesting as 2 frames is a decent amount. I guess a lot of people just don't feel the lag like myself and others like Bob from RetroRGB. Its one of the major reasons I never liked software emulation, I could always feel the extra lag. The run ahead latency is definitely a nice improvement though, but by the time that came out quality scalers and FPGA clones became available.

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Thats quite interesting as 2 frames is a decent amount. I guess a lot of people just don't feel the lag like myself and others like Bob from RetroRGB. Its one of the major reasons I never liked software emulation, I could always feel the extra lag. The run ahead latency is definitely a nice improvement though, but by the time that came out quality scalers and FPGA clones became available.

I don't think Bob "felt" the two frames it's just what he measured. I'm not convinced you'd feel it either tbh. But input lag does accumulate and lower is better.

Edited by cacophony

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