What's Wrong With This Picture?

[BigO]

What's wrong with this picture, aside from my weak camera work and poor Centipede playing skills?

(click to watch video...bummer that it doesn't do a thumbnail/preview thing)

Edited November 16, 2015 by BigO

[Lynxpro]

What's wrong with this picture, aside from my weak camera work and poor Centipede playing skills?

 

(click to watch video...bummer that it doesn't do a thumbnail/preview thing)

 

I hope you are using an adapter cable and haven't permanently modded an awesome 5200 Trak-Ball Controller just to work with a 2600.

[BigO]

 

I hope you are using an adapter cable and haven't permanently modded an awesome 5200 Trak-Ball Controller just to work with a 2600.

It's not possible to use an external adapter cable to achieve this. (Well, technically, I could do it, but it would be significantly more complex and just not worth the effort to me.) Besides, I have four of

 

This one's just lucky that I brought it back to life as a 5200 controller last night thanks to a chip salvaged from an ancient VCR. Never throw anything away. Now it gets to play with a new friend.

 

Still needs new bearings, but it's a happy camper otherwise.

 

There will be a permanent mod to let it work with the 2600 and/or 7800, but it will still work with a 5200.

Edited November 16, 2015 by BigO

[Lynxpro]

It's not possible to use an external adapter cable to achieve this. (Well, technically, I could do it, but it would be a lot more complex and just not worth the effort to me.)

There will be a permanent mod to let it work with the 2600 and/or 7800, but the mod will not prevent the controller from being used with a 5200.

 

Well then I stand corrected. That's F*CKING AWESOME!

 

 

By the way, if you have 4 CX-53s you can play 4-player 5200 RealSports Tennis using Trak-Balls.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Lynxpro

[BigO]

 

Well then I stand corrected. That's F*CKING AWESOME!

[+Random Terrain]

What's wrong with this picture . . .

 

Looks fine to me:

 

 

[Lynxpro]

People over in the Trak-Bombers group on Facebook are liking your video.

 

I dunno. Although I like the idea of having the CX-53 work with the 2600, 7800, and Atari 8-bits in addition to the 5200, what I really want is a reliable way to add a 3rd fire button to the CX-53 that will be supported when 3-Base Missile Command is ultimately ported to the 5200. One of the talented AtariAge coders already converted Missile Command+ over to the 5200 but since I don't have an AtariMax SD Cartridge Adapter, I can't test that myself on my hardware.

[BigO]

People over in the Trak-Bombers group on Facebook are liking your video.

 

I dunno. Although I like the idea of having the CX-53 work with the 2600, 7800, and Atari 8-bits in addition to the 5200, what I really want is a reliable way to add a 3rd fire button to the CX-53 that will be supported when 3-Base Missile Command is ultimately ported to the 5200. One of the talented AtariAge coders already converted Missile Command+ over to the 5200 but since I don't have an AtariMax SD Cartridge Adapter, I can't test that myself on my hardware.

Is someone actively porting the game to the 5200 now?

 

There's an interesting thing about the 5200 controller that I noticed years ago when building controllers from scratch. I believe there's a way to add another button to it without any fancy electronics and the code to read it would be fairly simple.

 

Maybe I should find some time to figure out how to program the 5200 so I can test my theory...

Edited November 16, 2015 by BigO

[Lynxpro]

Is someone actively porting the game to the 5200 now?

 

There's an interesting thing about the 5200 controller that I noticed years ago when building controllers from scratch. I believe there's a way to add another button to it without any fancy electronics and the code to read it would be fairly simple.

 

Maybe I should find some time to figure out how to program the 5200 so I can test my theory...

 

Nope. Nobody's also actively making a ROM of 3-Base Missile Command either. If a party would like to release it as commercial homebrew, Dan is all for it. Like say, through AtariAge.

 

There's pics on this site with CX-53s with third fire buttons added to them but I don't recall reading a confirmation that they act independently of the other buttons.

[BigO]

 

Nope. Nobody's also actively making a ROM of 3-Base Missile Command either. If a party would like to release it as commercial homebrew, Dan is all for it. Like say, through AtariAge.

 

There's pics on this site with CX-53s with third fire buttons added to them but I don't recall reading a confirmation that they act independently of the other buttons.

I think the requirement of a controller that was never directly available off the shelf might present a fairly significant challenge.

[keilbaca]

... How?

 

I absolutely need this in my life. Reactor is begging for a trackball.

[BigO]

 

Looks fine to me:

 

plugin.png

 

It's an mp4.

[BigO]

By the way, if you have 4 CX-53s you can play 4-player 5200 RealSports Tennis using Trak-Balls.

 

Ha. I don't even know 3 people who would be interested in touching an old 5200 video game.

[BigO]

... How?

I'm really dumbing down the circuitry by a mile. There's essentially a CX-80 trapped inside the CX-53. I'm just digging an escape tunnel.

 

It's only meaningful now in the 2600 world since the recent hacks of several games by Omegamatrix and Thomas J. to support the CX-80 style signals. I blame it all on them.

Edited November 16, 2015 by BigO

[BigO]

Now firing on a 2600 with either button. So, shouldn't be a problem to make 7800 compatible fire buttons.

 

Are there actually any 7800 specific trackball games that support both fire buttons?

[BigO]

 

I hope you are using an adapter cable and haven't permanently modded an awesome 5200 Trak-Ball Controller just to work with a 2600.

It's not true that I've *never* harmed a CX-53. The mechanical parts of this guy were gone. He got a heart transplant and a second chance at life.

Edited November 17, 2015 by BigO

[Andromeda Stardust]

I'm really dumbing down the circuitry by a mile. There's essentially a CX-80 trapped inside the CX-53. I'm just digging an escape tunnel.

 

It's only meaningful now in the 2600 world since the recent hacks of several games by Omegamatrix and Thomas J. to support the CX-80 style signals. I blame it all on them.

My CX-80 functions as a CX-22. I think a lot of them do. Behind every trackball are the four signal pins XA XB YA YB. The trackball needs ground and VCC and feeds those four signals into whatever control circuitry is needed to convert the output. By tapping between the trackball and controller, you can get the necessary gray code and send it to a nine pin connector via the joystick directions. The fire button needs to share a common ground with the console though. The rest of the circuitry on the 5200 side goes unused when connected to a 2600/7800.

[BigO]

My CX-80 functions as a CX-22. I think a lot of them do. Behind every trackball are the four signal pins XA XB YA YB. The trackball needs ground and VCC and feeds those four signals into whatever control circuitry is needed to convert the output. By tapping between the trackball and controller, you can get the necessary gray code and send it to a nine pin connector via the joystick directions. The fire button needs to share a common ground with the console though. The rest of the circuitry on the 5200 side goes unused when connected to a 2600/7800.

As best I understand, you have the CX-80 and CX-22 mixed up.

Edited November 17, 2015 by BigO

[Lynxpro]

 

Ha. I don't even know 3 people who would be interested in touching an old 5200 video game.

 

The 5200 is experiencing a revival here on AtariAge and Facebook at least. And the Trak-Ball is helping to drive that perception since the 5200 has the best Trak-Ball of all time and currently the most number of games that natively support it.

[Lynxpro]

... How?

 

I absolutely need this in my life. Reactor is begging for a trackball.

 

You do know Thomas & Co have hacked 2600 Reactor to support Trak-Balls now, right? Single button on the CX-22 and CX-80 for the 2600 of course. If I recall, the arcade used 2 buttons.

[Andromeda Stardust]

As best I understand, you have the CX-80 and CX-22 mixed up.

Well my CX-80 just sits and jitters when I try to play a CX-80 hacked ROM. It actually moves around like a proper trackball when I load the CX-22 version of the ROM hack.

 

From the description on the Missile Command TB entry in the AA store:

 

NOTE: Some Atari CX-80 trak-balls behave as a CX-22 trak-ball instead. These CX-80s require the CX-22 version of Missile Command TB. Unfortunately there is no way to tell these two different versions apart on the outside. However, the CX-80 trak-ball will function as an Atari ST mouse (if you happen to have an Atari ST). If you purchase the CX-80 version of the cartridge and you end up needing the CX-22 version, we will gladly exchange the cartridge for you.

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=31

[BigO]

I see. In other places, it's clearly spelled out that the CX-22 either acts only as a joystick emulator or has a second TB mode that outputs a signal decoded down to a direction and clock bits. I guess it's fortunate for me that I don't own any of those trackball products with confusing names.

 

My logic analyzer, oscilloscope and soldering station don't know nuthin' about no product labels or production oddities.

According to the programmers' notes and empirical evidence, the hacks that are labeled as "CX-80" expect raw Gray code.

[BigO]

Kinda stuck on something. I landed all of the wiring on a 25 pin connector with the plan of creating an opening in the case to provide access to the connector. (Pins 1-15 are the original 1-15 from the CX-53. PIns 22-25 are the 4 new encoder signals. The rest are room for growth.

 

The plan was to use a 25 pin to 15 pin cable for the 5200 and a separate 25 pin to 9 pin for the 2600, each picking up the appropriate connections from the 25 pin in the controller. I have the 9 pin built and tested. I'm not committed enough yet to start hacking that 15 pin original cable from the controller. I can still go back...maybe I'll sacrifice one of my ultra rare 15 pin extension cables.

 

I really thought this was the way to go as this would even allow a custom cable to be made that could pick up the signals from the encoders and pass them to the 5200 if somebody:ponder: wanted to do that for some experimental reason.

 

This would also let me use existing cables (9 pin Atari joystick, Genesis pad, etc. and the original 15 pin cable from the 5200 Trak-Ball) to hook things up instead of having to add a length of high conductor count cable and more DB style connectors to the bill of materials.

 

I got the 25 pin connector all terminated and got all of the internal wiring prettied up. Then I played with the placement of the hole I'd have to make for the 25 pin to pass through the controller wall. That's when I realized that the existing DB-25 hoods looked huge sticking out of the back of that controller. Ick.

 

Would a right angle connector make sense, functionally, since I'd have to choose to exit it either left or right. Might not be a big deal but effectively shortens the cable assuming the console is directly in front of the controller.

 

I can't find any straight compact hoods that wouldn't stick out as far.

 

Am I being too sensitive? Would anybody be that picky besides me?

 

(I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with the 25 pin at the controller, especially when considering the other idea I had while loitering around this current decision point. )

Edited November 21, 2015 by BigO

[BigO]

Up and running. With all of the screws back in. That means play testing is next.

 

I ended up bringing the 25 pins out on a 6 ft straight through cable (beige, ick).

Then I built adapters to hang on the end of that:

* 5200

* 2600 quadrature trackball (ST Mouse/straight Gray code)

* 2600 up/dn+clock (CX-22)

 

Amiga mouse support is just a matter of making one more adapter cable that I haven't had time for.
Not going to get joystick emulation. Too much extra work. Nobody wants that anyway.

 

Surprisingly, it looks like this could be done as a kit, with a little more refinement.

But, what an expensive kit it would be. The labor to make the wiring harness and the adapter cables would be killer.

The labor to make the little "taps" that I used to solderlessly pick off the signals from the chips was no picnic either. Though, those could be done as a little PC board to cut labor.

If nothing else, it was fun to build.

Edited November 22, 2015 by BigO

[BigO]

Now firing on a 2600 with either button. So, shouldn't be a problem to make 7800 compatible fire buttons.

 

Are there actually any 7800 specific trackball games that support both fire buttons?

Turns out, that's not as easy as I thought it would be with the way the 5200 has the two fire buttons wired. Will have to put some more brainpower into that one of these days if some demand pops up.

Edited November 22, 2015 by BigO